Supreme Court to consider D.C. Handgun Ban - Page 8

Angel · 07-13-2008, 10:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

You said "within minutes?"... How many minutes? *curious*

Sorry but I cannot answer that since I'm not a medical doctor but the medical study about gunshot wound injuries on the arm or leg stated that there are major arteries that run through your arms and legs that will cause you to bleed out within minutes, it didn't say how many minutes, you will have to ask a medical doctor this question then.

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blood loss can save if they rushed him/her to hospitail with albumance car... It does the same with blood poison as well. It was happeend to my neighbor at few years ago. They rushed him to hospitail to save his life. I witnessed what and how they did to my neighbor...

Not if it hits the artery, you'll bleed out quickly from what I heard..

Forgive me for not being able to answer all of your questions Liebling, I only have a few moments here as I'm expecting company.

Liebling:-))) · 07-13-2008, 11:24 AM

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Originally Posted by jiro123

Sharing different cultures, laws, etc is fine but you kept asserting that our police should go to Aurora and learn how to shoot at arm/leg. You kept asserting that we should learn to shoot to "wound" and not shoot to kill which makes no sense.

Yes I can use Aurora and Denver Police Officer as an example to show you the difference between Aurora Police Officer to wound a lady with gun and Denver Police Officer(S) to kill a man with a knife BECAUSE they both are Americans, not Europeans.

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Let's see.... they are professional police officer on the street everyday for 12+ hours with extensive training and they use it on daily basis... and you are a civilian working at office with absolutely no experience and training on it and yet you act like you know everything about it... hmm... is there something wrong with this picture? Trust me - with your "good judgment", your family will be sobbing at your funeral on your first day (or first week) of the job as police officer.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Most of your posts seem to me that you think America is a dangerous and volient in the world that´s why they need guns. Police Officers can shoot suspects no matter either they have gun or not because of protect to risk their life etc. etc. WRONGLY!!! Let me share the example about Europe. I use them as an example because you think America is a dangerous and violent in the world which is not true. There´re football hooligans, demonstrations, car burnings, neo-Nazis, etc in many Europe countries which is very violent. Police Officers do not use gun to shoot them, don´t they?... Oh yes, horrible atrocities are happen anywhere, not just America. Right? Yes Police Officers risk their life to deal with volients like that. It´s no excuse to use gun to shoot teenager, a man with knife, etc. etc. etc., taser pregnant women, children, etc. to protect Police Officer´s risk life...

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we're not talking about shoot to kill. We're talking about shoot to stop him running. If I were a plainclothes cop and from the distance - I see this guy allegedly buying a drug, I'd run after him and he'd run away. I yell - POLICE! DO NOT RUN! but he's getting away and further from me. Do I shoot him? In your case - YES SHOOT HIM! SHOOT HIM! In my case - Tough luck! better catch him if I can!

Exactly, that´s why he admitted his mistake because he should check on him or run to catch him if he suspect him... , not shot him. Because he suspect that man is a terrorist which is wrongly. It would be different story if he has a gun.

FYI: Brixton, south London is a more dangerous and volient place to live than other cities in London. We call Brixton as a violent culture... Police Officers dealt with them for YEARS without use gun. Shot to kill is rare...

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See what I'm talking about? Why should I shoot him? He's just running away from me. My life's not in danger. Maybe he thinks I'm an armed gang member. Maybe he's deaf. I'm very disturbed to hear that in your POV - it's OK to shoot him to stop him running

That is fascism!

What I said from read the newspaper in 70s about US Police Officer shot deaf shoplifter instead of run to catch him in America is a fact. Please re-read my post carefully. Yes we wonder to ourselves why Police Officer can´t RUN after him instead of shot him?

wow, I am total surprised to read your comment that it´s disturbed to shoot to wound than shoot to kill... wow...

It look like that shot dozen of times to man because they "thought" he has a gun is okay with you, not shot to wound.

FYI: What I said about shot to wound is not POV but the fact. Police Officer from many European countries do not shoot shoplifter to stop them from running BECAUSE they know the shoplifters do not have gun. It´s security officer´s job to run after shoplifter and then call the police on him/her. They only shoot to stop from running if criminal (like bank robbers, etc) who have gun. That´s it.

You keep on say that Police Officers protect from risk their life. If they are paraniod about risk their life then the job is not right for them. Many Police Officers knew what kind of life they will expect before they want to be Police Officer... Remember, it´s not just Police Officer but everyone including you, me and us as well.

I noticed from most of your posts that you keep on deny and defend Police Officer, no matter either they did wrongly...example taser pregnant women, children, shoot teenager, etc. etc. etc. I do not deny anything when you showed the link of UK Police shoot a running man but accept my knowledge that UK Police Officer did wrongly but you?

Liebling:-))) · 07-14-2008, 08:08 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

exactly the reason why I told you few rules to follow. If there's a red flag, there's a reason why police acts like a paranoid hard-ass. That's why officers do not want to argue with the driver.

They knew what kind of Police Officer, he/she will expect when they want to become Police Officer.

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Many things can happen. Just accept the ticket and go home. You can contest your ticket at court.

Thank God, here in Germany and other Europe countries doesn´t.

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All police officers in USA work alone because it's the matter of budget and practicality.

Huh? You work to pay tax... Tax suppose to improve your country?

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It would still happen if there was 2nd officer. He'd shoot both of them anyway.

See? that´s why I support high restriction... no wonder why we have very low gun crimes in Europe countries because we do not allow to carry gun to the public but law inforcement officers, hunters, etc.

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And this is why police officers are equipped with several weapons - pepper spray, gun, taser, etc - they are prepared for many type of scenarios. Because of his training, he survived by not letting him take his gun to execute him.

training? these videos are definitely a lot worse!!!

Many videos in those link.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Warren Police Officer Tasers Handcuffed Woman Multiple Times
YouTube - Warren Police Officer Tasers Handcuffed Woman Multiple Times

LAX Police Repeatedly TASER Unarmed Senior Citizen
YouTube - LAX Police Repeatedly TASER Unarmed Senior Citizen

Do you really call it as police training? I don´t see anything that they did correctly and professional but abuse taser and gun!!!!

LOL!!! POlice officer shot

YouTube - LOL!!! POlice officer shot

Training? It look like that police officer don´t know what kind of people try to shoot them. Yes, they need to be teach to use guns as a last resort only unless a person threaten the life of inncoent people... Yes, many police officers are themselves athletes and can run fast.

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Well - it's not that people learned to be violent to cops. It's the criminals/drivers who do not want to get arrested because they have illegal substance in their cars or have suspended licenses or have an arrest warrant or several other reasons.

It does the same with cops as well. They abuse taser and guns. I do not see that they use taser and guns as self-defense but comfortable. That´s how it teachs the people.

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You're talking about a couple of bad apples out of what? 10000 incidents? It is indeed terrible but how often do we hear about this??? pretty rare!

Rare?

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The "thought" is what keeps them alive. As long as driver follows instruction and behave.... everything's done in few min. no problem. everybody goes home safely.

Are you saying that you agree that "thought" keep Police Officers alive, not the innocent people including children?

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well.... self-defense is a form of karate. you punch and kick, right?

POW! right in the kisser!

I assume that you did not read the link fully but just see the draw picture?

Liebling:-))) · 07-14-2008, 08:18 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

I don't mean to sound callous but well - these friends were not aware of "cultural difference" in Texas so it's SOMEWHAT their fault. Yes it's a tragedy but... what can I say? Maybe in Europe - everybody even tourists and strangers were greeted with open, hearty hugs and in Texas - they greet strangers and illegals with a gun. I am quite paranoid with the strangers coming to my house too.

Yes my friend aware of gun culture in Texas before he and his friends visited but one thing is they do not aware is Texans´ paraniod problems. My friend told me that they can´t use their good judgment... and alway have negative thought which is really sad.

Here in Germany, we received unexpect visitors from strangers is salemen, etc. We use our good judgment, not shot them...

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NOW you know why cops in USA do not shoot at arm/leg to make them stop running??? They ONLY shoot when fired upon or when faced with imminent threat that will kill them.

Yes you told me before that shot to wound people´s arm/leg to prevent armed criminals from running is not allow in America.

Well about deaf shoplifter... he do not have gun to shot before run away... but just stole thing from shop and run away... Why can´t Police Officer RAN after him INSTEAD of shoot to kill him when many police officers are themselves athletes? Yes Police Officer DID said "STOP" but shoplifter did not hear but just continue ran... Police Officer was too lazy to run after him but just shoot him... this is comfortable for him to shoot... after found out that he is deaf... *shake my head disgusitly*

Liebling:-))) · 07-14-2008, 08:28 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

I understand that the word is "meaningful" but I don't understand the question. It doesn't fit the context. I need to be sure about what you are really asking before I can give an accurate answer. Otherwise, it won't make sense.

Oh I see...

Meaningful mean is value/positive sense or useful. We use those word a lot in German language "Sinnvoll" and also British langage as meanfuling or useful. What you use those American language when "meanfuling" is not fit the context?

Liebling:-))) · 07-14-2008, 08:57 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Again, how can you praise the officer when you don't even know what the officer did? The shot in the leg might have been the result of poor aim and not good training.

For European countries, shoot to wound is correct. They shoot legs mostly.

Jiro mentioned one of his posts that shoot to wound leg is not allow in America which here in EU countries doesn´t. Shot to wound to anything is allow.

What and how Police Officer did is the same as in EU countries.

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It still doesn't make sense to suggest police officers from different states go to Aurora for training because you don't know what kind of training Aurora offers, or if it had anything to do with this shooting. It just plain doesn't make sense.

Fact is yes... Check my post with link of videos...

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In other words, you can't prove your statement. OK.

I do not need to prove the numbers but receive the news from America everyday is good enough.

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Of course it is sad and tragic that a teenager lost his life, and I have sympathy for his family. But that doesn't mean he wasn't at fault, or that the police officer should be blamed. I can have sympathy for the family without blaming the police.

Sorry, I see different as you... Yes, Police Officer should use his good judgment instead of judge quick.

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I never said "snob ignorant."

Did I said you said this?

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I did NOT belittle the Granny's intelligence. I pointed out that she is not a forensics expert, so how can she judge the circumstances of the shooting? She doesn't have all the facts. No one can judge the shooting, pro or con, until all the facts are gathered and analyzed.

Huh? Because Granny is not a forensics expert? It sound that you are on Police Officer´s side, not matter what and how Police Officer did... Don´t you know that many law is on Police Officer´s sides?

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How can you claim to use "logic" if you don't have the facts?

Yes we can look fact logic on both sides.

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If the topic is shooting technique, then yes, I believe the police expert knows more about police gun training than Granny does. That's not an insult to her. It's what you call "logic."

wow, very interesting...

Yes you insult Granny because you think Police is a shot expert. Yes it´s logic... What Granny said is correct! You are interesting in fact on police´s side, not Granny.

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Was she a witness? Does she know how police are trained? No? Then she doesn't know what happened. Her feelings are real, and I respect that. But no one can base a legal judgment on "feelings." What are the facts?

Yes. The police spokesman knows the law and police training.

wow....

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Why do you keep saying, "shot to kill"? The police officers do not shoot to "kill"--they shoot to "stop." Sometimes that results in death, sometimes not. Their goal is NOT to kill.

True, Police Officer use taser and gun to threat or kill the unarmed people without use their good judgment.

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Yes, it's arrogant for you to judge the police officer and the shooting circumstances without having all the facts. You blame the police officer when you don't even know what happened.

There is nothing "polite" about making serious accusations against people without having the facts.

It´s bad that you deny the sense and truth is TEENAGER... I cannot image how you say like this because you are mother and Grandmother... I really cannot understand...

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That's ironic. Just a few lines ago, you criticized me for trusting "experts." But in this paragraph you support using "experts."

wow, you twisted my word and accuse me when you know my previous posts that EU don´t have jury...

http://www.alldeaf.com/american-disa...es-call-2.html

Re-read my post #35...

*shake my head*

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You statements show that you have no clue about what jury duty is about, much less how to use logic and analyze facts.

Interesting... it look like you are on prosecutor´s side, not lawyer´s side. It could be in America way for take one side to the law which we British doesn´t. We (British) listen BOTH prosecutor and lawyer´s side to the fact... We use our common sense either they are guilty or not. After that they discussed either they are guilty or not... why... what...

Liebling:-))) · 07-14-2008, 08:59 AM

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Originally Posted by web730

I didn't read all in this thread - too much for me! But yet I'm little baffled how far this thread gets! lol

Anyway, I recalled maybe a decade ago the Brits lifted the gun ban and end up with higher crimes which took them some surprise. What the heck were they thinking? lol So what has happened since then, anybody know?

There is another stuff I seen on tv about a new invention, the "web" gun working sort like the spiderman uses. I would say I like that one than the taser guns which should be much safer. Hope to see it coming someday to replace them.

Read UK police officers and people´s experience including several links.

UK only please: Do you think every British Police Officer should be armed, as in the USA?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...530032249AALEMNZ

Liebling:-))) · 07-14-2008, 09:03 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Sorry but I cannot answer that since I'm not a medical doctor but the medical study about gunshot wound injuries on the arm or leg stated that there are major arteries that run through your arms and legs that will cause you to bleed out within minutes, it didn't say how many minutes, you will have to ask a medical doctor this question then.

Not if it hits the artery, you'll bleed out quickly from what I heard..

Forgive me for not being able to answer all of your questions Liebling, I only have a few moments here as I'm expecting company.

Well, we human being have around 9 to 12 pints blood in our body. Yes, arterty may life-threatening but it´s very low... Accord First Aid: We CAN stop bleed loss... First Aid: Bleeding

Without stop blood loss... it would die approx. 20 to 25 minutes.

But heart and brain? Dead immediately...

Jiro · 07-15-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Read UK police officers and people´s experience including several links.

UK only please: Do you think every British Police Officer should be armed, as in the USA?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...530032249AALEMNZ

very good question. I don't know what UK is like but since it has gun ban and lifestyle is different from USA and population/territory is smaller than USA and UK police work in teams.... I think I can say UK police does not need gun but should get tasers.

Foxrac · 07-15-2008, 09:42 AM

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Originally Posted by jiro123

very good question. I don't know what UK is like but since it has gun ban and lifestyle is different from USA and population/territory is smaller than USA and UK police work in teams.... I think I can say UK police does not need gun but should get tasers.

I doubt UK need taser gun, however society in UK is much different from USA.

UK has lower murder rate than USA then need to be armed is pointless.

Jiro · 07-15-2008, 11:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Pacman

I doubt UK need taser gun, however society in UK is much different from USA.

UK has lower murder rate than USA then need to be armed is pointless.

they use batons so why trouble yourself to beat them up? Just taze them, bro!

Foxrac · 07-15-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

they use batons so why trouble yourself to beat them up? Just taze them, bro!

To be remember, taser gun can be deadly weapon to some people who is sensitive to electric, or people with medical condition like metal parts in bodies, pacemaker, internal CI and any parts that sensitive to electric.

Majority of British officers (82%) voted to be unarmed.

Jiro · 07-15-2008, 11:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Pacman

To be remember, taser gun can be deadly weapon to some people who is sensitive to electric, or people with medical condition like metal parts in bodies, pacemaker, internal CI and any parts that sensitive to electric.

Majority of British officers (82%) voted to be unarmed.

what are the chance that people with CI, pacemaker, etc. would pose a danger to public? I'm talking about hooligans, soccer riots, drunk people, etc. I'm sure UK's policy on use of taser would be more specific and stricter than USA. Maybe reduce the voltage for UK version

web730 · 07-15-2008, 05:25 PM

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Originally Posted by jiro123

they use batons so why trouble yourself to beat them up? Just taze them, bro!

It would excite terrorists, kidnappers, and the likes even more - jeez!

lol

(I meant those who think UK police don't need guns either, also)

Tousi · 07-15-2008, 08:41 PM

I do not know for a fact but it seems reasonable to me that certain departments within the UK law enforcement DO have guns for specific situations.

Jiro · 07-15-2008, 08:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Tousi

I do not know for a fact but it seems reasonable to me that certain departments within the UK law enforcement DO have guns for specific situations.

yes of course. we have a special police force called S.W.A.T. All countries have same.

DeafPenPal · 07-15-2008, 09:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Reba

I do.

I know many people who do own guns.

Why don't we get rid of all the useless old amendments, like free speech, right to assemble, free press, etc.

The Amendments on the Constitution law which prevent government from too much tyrant. If we let that happen, we would not be free to do what we wanted. Our state could becomes communism. Communist could control our way of living, taking away our freedom, and etc...

Jiro · 07-15-2008, 09:19 PM

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Originally Posted by DeafPenPal

The Amendments on the Constitution law which prevent government from too much tyrant. If we let that happen, we would not be free to do what we wanted. Our state could becomes communism. Communist could control our way of living, taking away our freedom, and etc...

you mean socialism...

DeafPenPal · 07-15-2008, 09:32 PM

I do not have gun but I favor not lifting the ban on the gun. Gun is for one's own good protection and self-defense. In addition, gun should be made security lock feature somewhere where you can lock on the trigger when not in use. A handgun is good for protection and self-defense. Other automatically gun and high profile weapon like shot gun should not be use by civilized people. When the state and federal government need our help to fight against terrorists invade the state, then it's up to the government to give the citizen's right to automatically and high profile weapon to fight against terrorists to protect their freedom from exile.

07-15-2008, 09:32 PM	#229 (permalink)
DeafPenPal DeafPenPal Social Network Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 313	I do not have gun but I favor not lifting the ban on the gun. Gun is for one's own good protection and self-defense. In addition, gun should be made security lock feature somewhere where you can lock on the trigger when not in use. A handgun is good for protection and self-defense. Other automatically gun and high profile weapon like shot gun should not be use by civilized people. When the state and federal government need our help to fight against terrorists invade the state, then it's up to the government to give the citizen's right to automatically and high profile weapon to fight against terrorists to protect their freedom from exile. __________________ Deaf Pen Pal Social Network Click here to help me build DPP City! Thanks! http://united-deaf.myminicity.com/ Please click here to visit my awesome HA Design for BTE Please Check my Albums for cool design and/or photo! http://www.alldeaf.com/members/deafpenpal-albums.html Anyone can use my avatar graphic in the avatar folder under Albums. http://www.alldeaf.com/members/deafp...ms-avatar.html

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07-15-2008, 08:41 PM	#225 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,210	I do not know for a fact but it seems reasonable to me that certain departments within the UK law enforcement DO have guns for specific situations.