Why the World Hates the US? - Page 15

jiro123 · 06-13-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

They won at Gulf war, Remember? Look at example: US won at WWII with soliders from different countries against Germany... They got arrested and Hilter end his life himself before he will get arrest. They arrested Germans... Right?

No. not "Germans." We arrested mostly Nazi officers who are responsible for their roles in abhorrent Holocaust. Like you said - war = soldiers fight against soldiers. Nazi did not do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Yes, Germans are also member of UN, too. Accord UN, soliders are not allow to attack other countries but support and defend the people against enemies... That's it.

I'm sorry but UN does not dictate each country's action. There is no "UN Law" - They are merely an arbitrators for common agreements with the countries such as Geneva Convention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

They are suppose to arrest Saddam when they won at Gulf war, don't they?

Did you forget? President George Bush, Sr. let him go. We destroyed much of his military capability and put a harsh economic sanction on his country. We thought he's not going to pose a threat again. For god's sake - WILL YOU PLEASE STOP SAYING ARREST? There is no such as "arrest" in war. It is NO ONE'S legal responsibility to arrest other nation's figure unless you are Interpol agent serving an arrest warrant by UN War Tribunal Court - Remember Slobodan Milošević?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

The problem is you refuse to listen both sides... I find interseting that you call it as opinion when UN thought about Iraq war...

I have listened to both sides and I have not seen any evidence of illegal war. President Bush acted within his Constitutional Rights which was an Executive Order to defended his country. Do not confuse Kofi Annan with UN. It is Kofi Annan's opinion that it was illegal, not UN. SHOW ME THE ACTUAL LEGAL PROCEEDING THAT HAS CHARGED BUSH OF A WAR CRIME IF THIS WAR WAS IN FACT ILLEGAL. All you showed me is some links to journalists. ThinkProgress? lawl. Washington Post? llawwwwllllll.

From your UN link you gave me - there are bunch of quotes that Saddam failed to heed -

SECURITY COUNCIL HOLDS IRAQ IN ‘MATERIAL BREACH’ OF DISARMAMENT OBLIGATIONS, OFFERS FINAL CHANCE TO COMPLY, UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTING RESOLUTION 1441 (2002)

Iraq War - 2003

"By the unanimous adoption of resolution 1441 (2002), the Council instructed the resumed inspections to begin within 45 days, and also decided it would convene immediately upon the receipt of any reports from inspection authorities that Iraq was interfering with their activities. It recalled, in that context, that the Council had repeatedly warned Iraq that it would face "serious consequences" as a result of continued violations."

"The United Kingdom’s representative said the resolution made crystal clear that Iraq was being given a final opportunity. The Iraqi regime now faced unequivocal choice: between complete disarmament and the serious consequences indicated in the resolution."

many more...

jiro123 · 06-13-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

And we know that UN is a joke too.

Afterall.....what did the UN do for the people of Bosnia? Rwanda? Mynamar?
Darfur region of Sudan?

Absoutely N O T H I N G!

War! Huh! What is it good for! Absolutely N O T H I N G!

***~SG~*** · 06-13-2008, 10:51 AM

Hey ya all,

This thread is getting heated. Cool it down a bit.

Reba · 06-13-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Everyone including soliders who experienced Iraq, websites, etc... and The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan

Everyone? When did this world-wide poll take place? I don't recall anyone asking my opinion.

People's opinions don't determine the legality of anything. The decision by an authorized entity determines the legality of something.

Quote:

It written that they only support and defend against enemies, not attack other countries. The soliders CAN say NO with reasons. Many soliders say no with reason is illegal war.

The best defense is a good offense.

Foreign terrorists attacked the United States. We are defending ourselves by attacking terrorists and their supporters to prevent future attacks by them.

Soldiers can say "no" but then they have to be willing to accept the consequences of their refusal. That's always been the case.

Quote:

Exactly, they can say no when they feel it's illegal or no right.

Yes, but if they disobey a command that is judged to be lawful, then they will be punished. They have to accept the consequences of their decisions.

Quote:

Come on, you must have known it's illegal to attack other countries for no reasons... I thought you know UN law...

Excuse me. The United States of America is a sovereign nation. We are not under "UN law". We obey the USA Constitution, not the UN.

Quote:

That's why we have Army bases is defend and support us and our country against enemies...

That's why you have German army bases. That's not why you have American bases.

Read the American military oath again. Where does it say Americans promise to support and defend foreign countries? No where. It doesn't say that.

Quote:

Not just that Iraq but everywhere around the world.

That's right. We'll pursue them wherever necessary to get them.

Reba · 06-13-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

War! Huh! What is it good for! Absolutely N O T H I N G!

Say it again y'all

jiro123 · 06-13-2008, 11:07 AM

Liebling - Let me ask you this - it's a THEORETICAL question. What would you do as President of AllDeaf if you just received a VITAL piece of information from your intelligence agency that John Doe of Hobostan is plotting to launch terrorism attack - possibly by either chemical or bio-warfare (some kind of nerve gas attack) on your country? That information came from CIA agent posing as double agent. What would you do? launch preemptive strike or wait for actual attack to happen?

Reba · 06-13-2008, 11:58 AM

"Neither the United States of America, nor the world community of nations can tolerate deliberate deception and offensive threats on the part of any nation, large or small. We no longer live in a world where only the actual firing of weapons represents a sufficient challenge to a nations security to constitute maximum peril."

Reba · 06-13-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

They are suppose to arrest Saddam when they won at Gulf war, don't they?

Supposed to arrest Saddam? What are you talking about?

Reba · 06-13-2008, 12:16 PM

Liebling, no matter how you try to divert it, the bottom line is that you continue to work for an Army that you believe is fighting an illegal war. That makes it difficult for me (and others) to find credible your arguments against the war in Iraq. If you truly believe that it's an illegal war, why do you continue doing work that supports that war, and accept money from people who "kill many innocents?"

I imagine that you might even use your Army employer's computers, internet connection, and time to make the anti-US posts here. I hope not.

Liebling:-))) · 06-14-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~SG~

Hey ya all,

This thread is getting heated. Cool it down a bit.

Yeah, I noticed again... I am not going to post here and let them think what they want... If I post then it would get more heat... ... All what I say is enough... and no more posts.

Liebling:-))) · 06-14-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Supposed to arrest Saddam? What are you talking about?

Yes, they were supposed to arrest Saddam and his people after won at Gulf war which they did at Nazi officers at WWII but they doesn´t...

jiro123 · 06-14-2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Yeah, I noticed again... I am not going to post here and let them think what they want... If I post then it would get more heat... ... All what I say is enough... and no more posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Yes, they were supposed to arrest Saddam and his people after won at Gulf war which they did at Nazi officers at WWII but they doesn´t...

you just posted after you said no more posts!

Liebling:-))) · 06-14-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

you just posted after you said no more posts!

I only quoted one, not all. It´s not heat debate but normal question. I only quoted one to answer her question, not quote all posts to debate. If I quote all posts then it would end to heat and the lock or remove the thread... I choose to aviod it and give SG right.

jiro123 · 06-14-2008, 01:00 AM

still haven't answered my theoretical question. I'll repost

Quote:

Let me ask you this - it's a THEORETICAL question. What would you do as President of AllDeaf if you just received a VITAL piece of information from your intelligence agency that John Doe of Hobostan is plotting to launch terrorism attack - possibly by either chemical or bio-warfare (some kind of nerve gas attack) on your country? That information came from CIA agent posing as double agent. What would you do? launch preemptive strike or wait for actual attack to happen?

I suppose you do not choose to answer it?

Liebling:-))) · 06-14-2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

still haven't answered my theoretical question. I'll repost

I suppose you do not choose to answer it?

Okay, you will have my answer tonight. Not today because I am going to prepare the breakfast then go off for shopping as usual.

jiro123 · 06-14-2008, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Okay, you will have my answer tonight. Not today because I am going to prepare the breakfast then go off for shopping as usual.

there is only 1 short answer - it's either "launch preemptive strike" or "sit and wait." BTW - breakfast? mmmmm I especially enjoyed german breakfast from my European trip few years ago.

Liebling:-))) · 06-15-2008, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

still haven't answered my theoretical question. I'll repost

Quote:

Let me ask you this - it's a THEORETICAL question. What would you do as President of AllDeaf if you just received a VITAL piece of information from your intelligence agency that John Doe of Hobostan is plotting to launch terrorism attack - possibly by either chemical or bio-warfare (some kind of nerve gas attack) on your country? That information came from CIA agent posing as double agent. What would you do? launch preemptive strike or wait for actual attack to happen?

I suppose you do not choose to answer it?

Get Real:

Should we spend billon $$$ or €€€€ and send thousands soldiers to their death to fight the war on what?

Should we attack every countries because we beleive terrorists are there?

Fact is: we live in a dangerous world... Everyone risk their life everyday to car accidents, plane accidents, boat accidents, serial killers, rapists, volience, etc. like that, not just terrorist attacks... All what we do is positive our life... yes we have to face it that we would risk our life some day. Nobody knows what and when???

Army bases around the world defend and protect the people against enemies what they did their best what they can. Example: soliders were in Iraq war and Terrorists attack at other countries. What is this? That´s an exactly what I tried to say that terrorist attacks are everywhere.

jiro123 · 06-15-2008, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Get Real:

Should we spend billon $$$ or €€€€ and send thousands soldiers to their death to fight the war on what?

that should be none of your concern since you're not an American taxpayer. Leave that to us. Are you saying we should not help the country who is being oppressed? I assure you that those thousand soldiers were glad to die honorably fighting for people who couldn't fight back. That's why people keep signing up for military. Sometimes the war may seems like it lost its bearing but overall in the long American history - we're pretty consistent in our cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Should we attack every countries because we beleive terrorists are there?

As the matter of fact - Afghanistan = a direct retaliation of 9/11. Iraq = a direct violation of U.N. resolution. Yes we would attack a rogue nation like Afghanistan. We will liberate an oppressed country like Somalia and Bosnia. Why do not Europeans help them? Why do Americans have to initiate first? Why? because Europeans make billions of dollars by doing secret economical deals with the devils. The reason why Europeans did not want to go war against Iraq is because Iraq owes billion of dollars to them. They did not care if people were being exploited and killed. What a SHAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Fact is: we live in a dangerous world... Everyone risk their life everyday to car accidents, plane accidents, boat accidents, serial killers, rapists, volience, etc. like that, not just terrorist attacks... All what we do is positive our life... yes we have to face it that we would risk our life some day. Nobody knows what and when???

right that's why we're in wars with the bad boys. so your point is.....?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Army bases around the world defend and protect the people against enemies what they did their best what they can. Example: soliders were in Iraq war and Terrorists attack at other countries. What is this? That´s an exactly what I tried to say that terrorist attacks are everywhere.

It's amazing that you have failed to understand the simplest concept of Iraq situation. Very amazing.... Do you not understand that we are helping Iraq to reconstruct its country? Do you not understand that insurgents are preventing us to do that? Do you not understand that ONCE Iraq has a capability to run its country on its own, we will leave? To call us murderers and killing innocents for oil is just.... I don't know what to say... It's almost as bad as treason. You seriously need to refrain that - please show some respect to our fallen soldiers.

Liebling:-))) · 06-15-2008, 02:51 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

that should be none of your concern since you're not an American taxpayer.

Yes innocent people and soliders are my concern, no matter either they are an American or not.

Quote:

Leave that to us.

Are you saying that all Americans? I would suggest you to check google yourself.

Quote:

Are you saying we should not help the country who is being oppressed? I assure you that those thousand soldiers were glad to die honorably fighting for people who couldn't fight back. That's why people keep signing up for military. Sometimes the war may seems like it lost its bearing but overall in the long American history - we're pretty consistent in our cause.

Quote:

As the matter of fact - Afghanistan = a direct retaliation of 9/11. Iraq = a direct violation of U.N. resolution. Yes we would attack a rogue nation like Afghanistan. We will liberate an oppressed country like Somalia and Bosnia. Why do not Europeans help them? Why do Americans have to initiate first? Why? because Europeans make billions of dollars by doing secret economical deals with the devils. The reason why Europeans did not want to go war against Iraq is because Iraq owes billion of dollars to them. They did not care if people were being exploited and killed. What a SHAM

Interesting...

I say no more further... because I know you and some do not like my questions then it would end heat debate.

Quote:

right that's why we're in wars with the bad boys. so your point is.....?

Yes it´s my point that we live in a dangerous world, we risk our life everyday when it´s not just terrorist attacks.

Quote:

It's amazing that you have failed to understand the simplest concept of Iraq situation. Very amazing.... Do you not understand that we are helping Iraq to reconstruct its country? Do you not understand that insurgents are preventing us to do that? Do you not understand that ONCE Iraq has a capability to run its country on its own, we will leave?

I say the same thing about you, too. Yes, it´s very amazing that you have fail to understand, too. I rather to not say anything further.

Quote:

To call us murderers

Can you show me where I call soldier or you as a murder? It would be insult and offensive if I call solider a murderer or killer. It´s not my type to call soliders murderer or killer because they are being order to kill enemies and innocent people. It is also not my type to call solider as a coward because it´s their reason for not want to accept the order to kill enemies and innocnent people. It´s not insult if I call war or death penalty itself as a murder or No War itself as a coward because I did not call a person as murder or coward... Get the difference?

Quote:

and killing innocents for oil is just....

I already gave you the link in previous post. Many people including ADers knows it. It´s your choice for refuse to see it. Nobody forces you to beleive it. It´s your decision if you don´t beleive or not. It´s my choice to beleive it thru the influence from office atmosphere. It´s my decision to look both side until I agree to which one.

Iraq war is for oil - Google-Suche
and including many AD threads.

Please don´t take my posts personally when I see and what I know differently as you. It´s bad if you don´t like my questions.

Quote:

I don't know what to say... It's almost as bad as treason. You seriously need to refrain that - please show some respect to our fallen soldiers.

Are you accuse me for disrespect soliders? Please show me where I negative soliders in my posts? *shake my head*

I would say the same about you as well because you find war is okay when you know soliders risk/killed there is disrespectful.

Again, I would suggest you take your own advice...
http://www.alldeaf.com/general-chat/...ngry-life.html

dreamchaser · 06-15-2008, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by florencegale182

Playing a large role in world affairs would be expected of a superpower, yes.

But purposely going out of their way in dozens of nations to pave the way for corporations and exploitation of indigenous peoples/resources all over the world and promote capitalist ideology at any cost? I don't think that's a 'given' just because the U.S. is a superpower. It is pure greed, selfishness, and evil.

Do you even realize the number of interventions the U.S. has been a part of, the cost of human life on both sides, and the absolutely fucking stupid justifications (unless you're a greedy, sociopathic imperialist) for these incidents?

excerpted from somewhere else:

"Afghanistan. 24,000 Dead. Obviously invaded for oil. Afghanistan had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. And the decision to invade Afghanistan was made long before 9/11.

Columbia. 67,000 dead, including many human rights members and members of the leftwing movements. oppressive, militia (government) funded by the U.S.

Cuba - constant threats, plots, plans to ruin that country. The U.S government planned to kill it's own citizens in planes flying over Miami and elsewhere (including space) to blame it on Castro. Known as Operation Northwoods - all of the documents have been declassified, any one who wants to know how much their government really cares for them can read them, but as a senator said, it doesn't matter because "American's don't read".

Guatemala. 200,000 dead. Military armed, trained and funded by the U.S, and coups organised by the CIA.

El Salvador. 75,000 dead. As above: death squads armed by the U.S.

East Timor. 200,000 dead. U.S supplied the murderous Suharto regime with its weapons - against the wishes of the EU and the UN.

Haiti - supported the brutal Duvalier regimes, opposed the popular Aristide government, and overthrew him recently.

Somalia. 10,000 dead.

Nicaraguan. 13,000 dead. The U.S was condemned by the international criminal court for unprovoked terrorism (the first and only nation to be so), but simply vetoed this.

It goes on and on and on, 4 million alone were killed in Vietnam, adding up all of the death tolls since 1945 reveals a staggering amount of human life extinguished because of the power-politics of the U.S. Whether you agree with my premise or not, the simple fact is that the bullish (and that's a polite word for it) behaviour of the U.S provides a much more logical, rational reason why terrorist despise you than the nonsensical, they-just-hate-our-freedoms rot does."

Keep in mind that many over the governments that the U.S. overthrew were popular or elected, but because they were 'socialist,' meaning they wanted to help their people and not have them exploited by international corporations, they were destroyed.

Do you at least now have a glimpse of why so many millions fucking hate the U.S.?

And don't give me that "Cold War" bollocks. The U.S. was just as much a threat to freedom, liberty, and life as the Soviet Union was. Just refer to the above list. The only difference between the two nations is that domestically, Americans were better off. But concerning foreign powers, the behavior of the US and USSR both was fucking heinous, murderous, and horrible.

It is pretty apparent that power and money has clouded the logic and morals of our government. The sad thing is that they do it in our name, or in the name of God. No wonder no other countries trust us. I don't trust my own government,, and that is really sad. Where has our American values gone? I hope that the disasters of the last 7 years will make people get involved and ask questions and vote.

dreamchaser · 06-15-2008, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

No. not "Germans." We arrested mostly Nazi officers who are responsible for their roles in abhorrent Holocaust. Like you said - war = soldiers fight against soldiers. Nazi did not do that.

[/font][/color]
I'm sorry but UN does not dictate each country's action. There is no "UN Law" - They are merely an arbitrators for common agreements with the countries such as Geneva Convention.

[/color]
Did you forget? President George Bush, Sr. let him go. We destroyed much of his military capability and put a harsh economic sanction on his country. We thought he's not going to pose a threat again. For god's sake - WILL YOU PLEASE STOP SAYING ARREST? There is no such as "arrest" in war. It is NO ONE'S legal responsibility to arrest other nation's figure unless you are Interpol agent serving an arrest warrant by UN War Tribunal Court - Remember Slobodan Milošević?

[/color]
I have listened to both sides and I have not seen any evidence of illegal war. President Bush acted within his Constitutional Rights which was an Executive Order to defended his country. Do not confuse Kofi Annan

06-13-2008, 10:51 AM	#423 (permalink)
*~SG~* Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 3,125	Hey ya all, This thread is getting heated. Cool it down a bit. __________________

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

06-13-2008, 11:07 AM	#426 (permalink)
jiro123 YOU DOMESTIC DISSENT! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 3,609	Liebling - Let me ask you this - it's a THEORETICAL question. What would you do as President of AllDeaf if you just received a VITAL piece of information from your intelligence agency that John Doe of Hobostan is plotting to launch terrorism attack - possibly by either chemical or bio-warfare (some kind of nerve gas attack) on your country? That information came from CIA agent posing as double agent. What would you do? launch preemptive strike or wait for actual attack to happen?

06-13-2008, 11:58 AM	#427 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 15,969	"Neither the United States of America, nor the world community of nations can tolerate deliberate deception and offensive threats on the part of any nation, large or small. We no longer live in a world where only the actual firing of weapons represents a sufficient challenge to a nations security to constitute maximum peril."

06-13-2008, 12:16 PM	#429 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 15,969	Liebling, no matter how you try to divert it, the bottom line is that you continue to work for an Army that you believe is fighting an illegal war. That makes it difficult for me (and others) to find credible your arguments against the war in Iraq. If you truly believe that it's an illegal war, why do you continue doing work that supports that war, and accept money from people who "kill many innocents?" I imagine that you might even use your Army employer's computers, internet connection, and time to make the anti-US posts here. I hope not.