Gay marriage, Obama and the fierce urgency of now: Why did he do it this week? - Page 2

**Jiro** · 05-13-2012, 04:56 AM

Poll Finds Republicans Must Evolve or Die on Gay Marriage

Quote:

In the wake of Obama’s historic support for gay marriage and Mitt Romney’s Cranbrook bullying of a gay student, public opinion researcher and Bush’s 2004 pollster Jan van Lohuizen issued a warning to Republicans – change your stance on gay marriage or become irrelevant.

Citing poll numbers, van Lohuizen makes the case for why Republicans need to change their position on gay marriage and they need to do it yesterday. See, it’s not just Democrats and young people who support equal rights for gay couples anymore. Support among Republicans is on the rise.

It isn’t that Republican leaders have changed their mind or that it’s suddenly right in their opinion, but they must change their position because the polls are shifting in such a way that it will be impossible to win elections if they do not. The polls are shifting not just from a generational standpoint, but a rethinking of the issue across the board. Thus, Republicans must now change their stance on gay marriage.

The question is, how can they get the base on board? After all, Republicans have made quite a show of demonizing gay people as infidels, even blaming the gay community for their own failed marriages. High profile Republicans are on record repeatedly suggesting that gay men are child molesters. They have cited Jesus and the Bible as proof that gay is bad. Republicans have used their demonizing of the gay community to get out the vote. After so much conditioning, their religious base may actually believe that the soul of America depends upon their successful theft of rights from the gay community.

**Jiro** · 05-13-2012, 04:57 AM

Bush '04 pollster: Change in attitudes on gay marriage across the board - POLITICO.com

Quote:

Former President George W. Bush's pollster for his 2004 re-election, Jan van Lohuizen, has put out a memo to Republican operatives suggesting a shift in the way the GOP discusses same-sex marriage, a piece flagged by Jonathan Martin.

It notes what recent same-sex marriage surveys have found, which is a change in public support "at an accelerated rate with no sign of slowing down."

It adds, "The increase in support is taking place among all partisan groups. While more Democrats support gay marriage than Republicans, support levels among Republicans are increasing over time. The same is true of age: younger people support same sex marriage more often than older people, but the trends show that all age groups are rethinking their position."

And it notes that people's attitudes have moved within the GOP on whether to provide "basic legal" protections to gay people, with a proposed shift in language about understanding rights.

The full memo is after the jump.

Quote:

Memorandum

From: Jan R. van Lohuizen

Date: 05/11/12

Re: Same Sex Marriage

Background: in view of this week’s news on the same sex marriage issue, here is a summary of recent survey findings on same sex marriage:

Support for same sex marriage has been growing and in the last few years support has grown at an accelerated rate with no sign of slowing down. A review of public polling shows that up to 2009 support for gay marriage increased at a rate of 1% a year. Starting in 2010 the change in the level of support accelerated to 5% a year. The most recent public polling shows supporters of gay marriage outnumber opponents by a margin of roughly 10% (for instance: NBC / WSJ poll in February / March: support 49%, oppose 40%).
The increase in support is taking place among all partisan groups. While more Democrats support gay marriage than Republicans, support levels among Republicans are increasing over time. The same is true of age: younger people support same sex marriage more often than older people, but the trends show that all age groups are rethinking their position.
Polling conducted among Republicans show that majorities of Republicans and Republican leaning voters support extending basic legal protections to gays and lesbians. These include majority Republican support for:
Protecting gays and lesbians against being fired for reasons of sexual orientation
Protections against bullying and harassment
Repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
Right to visit partners in hospitals
Protecting partners against loss of home in case of severe medical emergencies or death
Legal protection in some form for gay couples whether it be same sex marriage or domestic partnership (only 29% of Republicans oppose legal recognition in any form).
Recommendation: A statement reflecting recent developments on this issue along the following lines:

“People who believe in equality under the law as a fundamental principle, as I do, will agree that this principle extends to gay and lesbian couples; gay and lesbian couples should not face discrimination and their relationship should be protected under the law. People who disagree on the fundamental nature of marriage can agree, at the same time, that gays and lesbians should receive essential rights and protections such as hospital visitation, adoption rights, and health and death benefits.

Other thoughts / Q&A:

Follow up to questions about affirmative action: “This is not about giving anyone extra protections or privileges, this is about making sure that everyone – regardless of sexual orientation – is provided the same protections against discrimination that you and I enjoy.”

Why public attitudes might be changing: “As more people have become aware of friends and family members who are gay, attitudes have begun to shift at an accelerated pace. This is not about a generational shift in attitudes, this is about people changing their thinking as they recognize their friends and family members who are gay or lesbian.”

Conservative fundamentals: “As people who promote personal responsibility, family values, commitment and stability, and emphasize freedom and limited government we have to recognize that freedom means freedom for everyone. This includes the freedom to decide how you live and to enter into relationships of your choosing, the freedom to live without excessive interference of the regulatory force of government.

Steinhauer · 05-13-2012, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Single Mother Bristol Palin Tells Obama Same-Sex Marriage is Wrong Because Kids Need a Mom and Dad

oh the hypocrisy... I don't think this has gotten even more comical than this.... especially coming from a person with a wedlock baby

A single mom would know how important the role of a father would be wouldn't they?

More than you I assume.

Steinhauer · 05-13-2012, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

USA TODAY/Gallup poll: 51% agree with Obama's gay marriage endorsement

looks like more than half of America is fine with it. I predict that this is certainly going to cost GOP an election and political power if GOP is not going to be a progressive party especially with its foul-up stance on immigration, gay issues, and women's rights.

31 States have laws against same sex marriage - your poll means nothing.

Steinhauer · 05-13-2012, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Poll Finds Republicans Must Evolve or Die on Gay Marriage

This thread isn't about polls or even the GOP, it is about why Obama flip flopped on his own gay marriage stance.

I am sure you bufoons can't discuss Obama's flip flopping without blaming Republicans.

Steinhauer · 05-13-2012, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

She is just talk about present, not past.

It is uncommon for people to got married in court or anywhere aren't religious place.

Some atheists are married as well.

Yes, lots of non religious people are married. That is because governing bodies began regulating religious rites of passage, marriage being the one they could profit the most from. After governing bodies regulated marriage, which is inherently religious, it became secular.

States have always regulated who, and who cannot, get married. Before governing bodies became involved, it was families who made that decision, with the blessing from the mosque, temple, church etc.

The pilgrims fled to the new world when King Henry the VIII decided he did not like what the chuirch had to say about marriage, and appointed himself head of the church and began oppressing the religious. He tried to redefine the principles of marriage too - much like Obama is trying to do.

rolling7 · 05-13-2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

USA TODAY/Gallup poll: 51% agree with Obama's gay marriage endorsement

looks like more than half of America is fine with it. I predict that this is certainly going to cost GOP an election and political power if GOP is not going to be a progressive party especially with its foul-up stance on immigration, gay issues, and women's rights.

Seriously, using the poll numbers for America! As you well know, polls can word questions to get the respond THEY want. To be real serious, in the next presidential election, put the situation on a NATIONAL BALLOT and let the results be the end of this matter. Scared what the results will be? Then start a new thread.

**Jiro** · 05-13-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Seriously, using the poll numbers for America! As you well know, polls can word questions to get the respond THEY want. To be real serious, in the next presidential election, put the situation on a NATIONAL BALLOT and let the results be the end of this matter. Scared what the results will be? Then start a new thread.

I think we both know who is really scared in here

**Jiro** · 05-13-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

A single mom would know how important the role of a father would be wouldn't they?

More than you I assume.

What father? He ain't around!

**Jiro** · 05-13-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

This thread isn't about polls or even the GOP, it is about why Obama flip flopped on his own gay marriage stance.

I am sure you bufoons can't discuss Obama's flip flopping without blaming Republicans.

This thread is about gay marriage. Does it scare you?

**Jiro** · 05-13-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Yes, lots of non religious people are married. That is because governing bodies began regulating religious rites of passage, marriage being the one they could profit the most from. After governing bodies regulated marriage, which is inherently religious, it became secular.

States have always regulated who, and who cannot, get married. Before governing bodies became involved, it was families who made that decision, with the blessing from the mosque, temple, church etc.

The pilgrims fled to the new world when King Henry the VIII decided he did not like what the chuirch had to say about marriage, and appointed himself head of the church and began oppressing the religious. He tried to redefine the principles of marriage too - much like Obama is trying to do.

you are either clueless or a liar

From my previous post,

Quote:

Since Obama announced on Wednesday his shift on the issue in an interview with ABC News' Robin Roberts, his campaign has highlighted his position on gay rights while charging that Romney would further restrict rights for same-sex couples. Though Obama endorsed gay marriage, he told Roberts that the issue should be a matter for each state to decide on individually.

**Foxrac** · 05-13-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

31 States have laws against same sex marriage - your poll means nothing.

Most state constitution banning on gay marriage passed when majority of Americans were oppose gay marriage from 1998 to 2010 so it is first time to see majority of Americans support gay marriage in 2011.

Everything change over years after constitution ban passed and it will take about 20 years for gay marriage to be widely recognized in southern states. Back in 1960's, there was less than 10% Americans supported gay marriage but has went up to little over 50%.

Jiro's article is good point about Americans are changing their stance about government, even marriage too.

**Foxrac** · 05-13-2012, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

This thread isn't about polls or even the GOP, it is about why Obama flip flopped on his own gay marriage stance.

I am sure you bufoons can't discuss Obama's flip flopping without blaming Republicans.

Obama wasn't flip flopped and he's just change his stance on gay marriage. It is uncommon for politicians to change their stance in anytime.

You do flip flopped and you don't have problem with gay marriage in two years ago but now, you change your view to oppose.

**Foxrac** · 05-13-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Seriously, using the poll numbers for America! As you well know, polls can word questions to get the respond THEY want. To be real serious, in the next presidential election, put the situation on a NATIONAL BALLOT and let the results be the end of this matter. Scared what the results will be? Then start a new thread.

Get a real man and why are you continuing to trolling.

**Foxrac** · 05-13-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Yes, lots of non religious people are married. That is because governing bodies began regulating religious rites of passage, marriage being the one they could profit the most from. After governing bodies regulated marriage, which is inherently religious, it became secular.

States have always regulated who, and who cannot, get married. Before governing bodies became involved, it was families who made that decision, with the blessing from the mosque, temple, church etc.

The pilgrims fled to the new world when King Henry the VIII decided he did not like what the chuirch had to say about marriage, and appointed himself head of the church and began oppressing the religious. He tried to redefine the principles of marriage too - much like Obama is trying to do.

The marriage today is modernized and not just like 1800's.

There are few people have private marriage, especially anti-government religious (like JW) and gay people.

Steinhauer · 05-13-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

What father? He ain't around!

This thread isn't about Palin, it is about Obama. I realize you might be confused and just figured you needed a reminder.

But to reiterate my reply to your deliberate derailing tactic concerning the father of Palin's son, she would know far more than you currently could about the damaging effects of a fatherless childhood as she can see it in her own situation.

Cowpuppy · 05-13-2012, 04:17 PM

re-election politics is normal. it's all about keeping the other side out.

**saywhatkid** · 05-13-2012, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

But to reiterate my reply to your deliberate derailing tactic concerning the father of Palin's son, she would know far more than you currently could about the damaging effects of a fatherless childhood as she can see it in her own situation.

So she is an expert now? Ain't karma something? BTW, how would you know about Jiro's home life?

**saywhatkid** · 05-13-2012, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

This thread isn't about polls or even the GOP, it is about why Obama flip flopped on his own gay marriage stance.

I am sure you bufoons can't discuss Obama's flip flopping without blaming Republicans.

So we are buffoons now? Obama flipped, or changed his mind? Or both? He listened to all the various points and decided too cast his lot with same sex marriage? If Newt did this, would it be a sign of strength?

Never mind. Your absolute dislike of Liberals causes me great fear that you can carry a firearm.

**Jiro** · 05-13-2012, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

This thread isn't about Palin, it is about Obama. I realize you might be confused and just figured you needed a reminder.

But to reiterate my reply to your deliberate derailing tactic concerning the father of Palin's son, she would know far more than you currently could about the damaging effects of a fatherless childhood as she can see it in her own situation.

In case you're bit mixed up.... Bristol Palin criticized Obama's stance on gay marriage issue. and I'm showing you the hypocrisy which many of you and anti-gay people have.

if you're gonna criticize Obama's stance on gay marriage.... at least make sure your closet's tidy. the difference between you and me when it comes to "off-topic" is that you bring in stuff not directly or indirectly related to subject at all.

**Foxrac** · 05-14-2012, 12:20 AM

We know that southern states are strongest region that oppose to gay rights but at least, gay life is much better in southern states, even Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia than Russia, Iran, China and North Korea.

**Reba** · 05-14-2012, 09:35 AM

I find it humorous that anyone seriously considers what Bristol Palin opines. She's never held an elective office, and she has no academic credentials in any subject.

She does have life experience, which anyone can claim. In her experience, she has discovered first hand that trying to raise a child without a dad in the picture is very hard, and the child misses out by not having both parents. In that case, her opinion is as valid as any other unwed mom's opinion. No more, no less. She just happens to get more coverage of her opinions for whatever pop culture reason.

Frisky Feline · 05-14-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Poll Finds Republicans Must Evolve or Die on Gay Marriage

pretty color!

**Foxrac** · 05-14-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Freshman Rep. James Lankford (R-Okla.) told ThinkProgress in a recent interview that he was against laws designed to protect employees from workplace discrimination based on their sexual orientation, because of his belief that being gay is a "choice."

"Race and sexual preferences are two different things. One is a behavior-related and preference-related and one is something inherently -- skin color, something obvious, that kind of stuff. You don’t walk up to someone on the street and look at them and say, 'Gay or straight?'" Lankford said. "I think it’s a choice issue. Are tendencies and such? Yes. But I think it’s a choice issue."

President Barack Obama's recent endorsement of same-sex marriage rights spurred a legislative push on such safeguards last week. The Washington Post's Greg Sargent reported that a bipartisan group of senators renewed calls for hearings on the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, a piece of legislation that would expand employee anti-discrimination language to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

Lankford isn't the only freshman Republican to express opposition to this type of bill. Last week, Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) said such protections were unnecessary because discrimination based on sexual orientation simply didn't happen.

"That don’t happen out here in the United States of America," he told ThinkProgress.

James Lankford, GOP Rep, Opposes Laws Against Gay Employee Discrimination

James Lankford doesn't know about gay communities and he should read a role about homosexuality that written by American Psychiatric Association. The homosexuality isn't choice, period.

**saywhatkid** · 05-14-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I find it humorous that anyone seriously considers what Bristol Palin opines. She's never held an elective office, and she has no academic credentials in any subject.

She does have life experience, which anyone can claim. In her experience, she has discovered first hand that trying to raise a child without a dad in the picture is very hard, and the child misses out by not having both parents. In that case, her opinion is as valid as any other unwed mom's opinion. No more, no less. She just happens to get more coverage of her opinions for whatever pop culture reason.

I would say the same thing about her mom. Funny how all the Conservatives are ready to assault anyone that makes a negative comment regarding any of the female Palins.

**Jiro** · 05-14-2012, 03:58 PM

Sarah Palin preaches about abstinence program. Uh-oh!
Bristol Palin preaches about kids doing better growing up in mommy-daddy home. Uh-oh!

I guess apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

**saywhatkid** · 05-14-2012, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Sarah Palin preaches about abstinence program. Uh-oh!
Bristol Palin preaches about kids doing better growing up in mommy-daddy home. Uh-oh!

I guess apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

Thing is, I really don't care what the Palins say or do. Same with Kardashians and other celebs. I just enjoy watching people rush to their defense.

Steinhauer · 05-14-2012, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

I would say the same thing about her mom. Funny how all the Conservatives are ready to assault anyone that makes a negative comment regarding any of the female Palins.

Funny how anytime the Palin's say something, the liberals assault them.

Steinhauer · 05-14-2012, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Sarah Palin preaches about abstinence program. Uh-oh!
Bristol Palin preaches about kids doing better growing up in mommy-daddy home. Uh-oh!

I guess apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

And Obama (which this thread is about) listens to his teenage girls when he writes national policy. I guess unlimited free cell phone use is in the works ...

Maybe he can sneak that in Obamacare ...

**saywhatkid** · 05-14-2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Funny how anytime the Palin's say something, the liberals assault them.

As I said, I think the Liberals make fun of the Palins to get a rise from the Conservatives. And it works. Every. Time. Like litmus paper.

05-14-2012, 12:20 AM	#51 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,637	We know that southern states are strongest region that oppose to gay rights but at least, gay life is much better in southern states, even Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia than Russia, Iran, China and North Korea. __________________ In Moto We Trust

05-14-2012, 09:35 AM	#52 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,196	I find it humorous that anyone seriously considers what Bristol Palin opines. She's never held an elective office, and she has no academic credentials in any subject. She does have life experience, which anyone can claim. In her experience, she has discovered first hand that trying to raise a child without a dad in the picture is very hard, and the child misses out by not having both parents. In that case, her opinion is as valid as any other unwed mom's opinion. No more, no less. She just happens to get more coverage of her opinions for whatever pop culture reason. rockin'robin and Steinhauer like this. __________________ Tell us the truth about Benghazi!

05-14-2012, 03:58 PM	#56 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,563	Sarah Palin preaches about abstinence program. Uh-oh! Bristol Palin preaches about kids doing better growing up in mommy-daddy home. Uh-oh! I guess apple doesn't fall far from the tree... __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

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05-13-2012, 04:17 PM	#47 (permalink)
Cowpuppy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On The Road Again Posts: 820	re-election politics is normal. it's all about keeping the other side out.