Originally Posted by Jiro

vandalism is a simple and random act of lawlessness.

example - some hoodlums went out to knock out mailboxes, spraypaint walls, break a few windows, and crack some windshields. When they get caught, they'll get a slap on their wrists and pay fines... do some community service. The damage they inflicted is a headache for all because we have to fix it up. Everybody moves on and get on with their lives.

now... when a group of hoodlums went out to specifically target a racial group such as African-American people or Jewish people by vandalizing their establishments such as synagogues, homes, cars, etc. When they get caught, they'll too get a slap on their wrists and pay fines... do some community service. However, the damage they inflicted is a real, terrifying fear because they can simply get off the hook again and most likely not get caught because they knew better what to do. Everybody cannot move on and get on with their lives because they live with fear and must watch their behinds everyday while police officers shrug and say - "just call me when something happens".

Originally Posted by DaveM

Oh, sorry deafskeptic. True, I tend to lean towards Rands marketplace solutions.

And I do like her books very much. My favorite is Anthem.

Originally Posted by DaveM

Equal justice means murder is murder. Theft is theft. Violence is violence.

Not one single human being is more valuable than another, regardless of motive.

I will gladly address your points if you point me to them. This thread has become very, very long!

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

I don't care much for her.I have Voice of Reason by Ayn Rand somewhere in my apt.

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I have already shown how it doesn't. You are entitled to your opinion.

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Just in case. no one gets this.. It's vandalism if you spray graffiti that has no political message on the building.

If you spray Kike or Niggar on it it's a hate crime because the intent is to degrade and spread fear among the minority community by spraying hateful words building owned by the Jewish or the African American community.

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

My interpretation of hate crime is a bit different. I am in favor of laws to protect blacks from being intimidated by cross burning men with sheets over their heads. That is a hate crime to me. A swastika painted on the Jewish family's car is more than simple vandalism.

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Just in case. no one gets this.. It's vandalism if you spray graffiti that has no political message on the building.

If you spray Kike or Niggar on it it's a hate crime because the intent is to degrade and spread fear among the minority community by spraying hateful words building owned by the Jewish or the African American community.

Originally Posted by jillio

No you haven't.

Originally Posted by naisho

You know what's interesting in this era of our generation? Playing between the lines.

I've seen people circumvent "racism" by intentionally making the definition discreet on purpose. Like for example, say a thread about a black guy who gets jailed for something.
This person would say "Such a niggardly person, it was all in due case."

In the context, niggardly does not mean the n word at all, if you look up the definition. It is a legit term. But people can with a sense can obviously tell that an insult was hurled.

Such is what our society has became to.

Originally Posted by naisho

You know what's interesting in this era of our generation? Playing between the lines.

I've seen people circumvent "racism" by intentionally making the definition discreet on purpose. Like for example, say a thread about a black guy who gets jailed for something.
This person would say "Such a niggardly person, it was all in due case."

In the context, niggardly does not mean the n word at all, if you look up the definition. It is a legit term. But people can with a sense can obviously tell that an insult was hurled.

Such is what our society has became to.

Originally Posted by jillio

So then, manslughter and first degree murder should both carry life imprisonment or death penalty. Your logic.

Petty theft and grand theft should carry the same sentence.

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

but equal justice is not applied. that's the problem.

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I have already shown how it doesn't. You are entitled to your opinion.

Originally Posted by DaveM

Equal justice means murder is murder. Theft is theft. Violence is violence.

Not one single human being is more valuable than another, regardless of motive.

I will gladly address your points if you point me to them. This thread has become very, very long!

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I agree. Those usually fall under terroristic threat

Terroristic Threat




https://www.oag.state.tx.us/victims/stalking.shtml

Originally Posted by DaveM

Of course not!

I would ask you why manslaughter or murder of a protected class is more punishable than that of a non protected class?

If I was beaten on the street half to death, does it matter the motive?

Whether it was for drug money, the color of my skin, or just for fun like a flash mob, sentences should be dished out the same.

The idea of placing more or less importance on a human is THE VERY definition of inequality!

You're telling me one human is worth more than another.

Originally Posted by DaveM

Of course not!

I would ask you why manslaughter or murder of a protected class is more punishable than that of a non protected class?

If I was beaten on the street half to death, does it matter the motive?

Whether it was for drug money, the color of my skin, or just for fun like a flash mob, sentences should be dished out the same.

The idea of placing more or less importance on a human is THE VERY definition of inequality!

You're telling me one human is worth more than another.

Originally Posted by DaveM

I very much agree with you, DeafCaroline.

But I see the problem as being due to poverty. In other words poverty creates crime. And poverty prevents poor people from hiring lawyers so they're stuck with public defenders.

I blame the never ending cycle of poverty. Hope that clears things up

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Food for thought... isn't hate crime somewhat of a premeditated crime?

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Food for thought... isn't hate crime somewhat of a premeditated crime?

Originally Posted by jillio

What protected class are you referring to? There is only one protected class in this nation.

Originally Posted by jillio

Someone get the orderlies.

Originally Posted by kokonut

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Just in case. no one gets this.. It's vandalism if you spray graffiti that has no political message on the building.

If you spray Kike or Niggar on it it's a hate crime because the intent is to degrade and spread fear among the minority community by spraying hateful words building owned by the Jewish or the African American community.

Originally Posted by DaveM

Of course not!

I would ask you why manslaughter or murder of a protected class is more punishable than that of a non protected class?

If I was beaten on the street half to death, does it matter the motive?

Whether it was for drug money, the color of my skin, or just for fun like a flash mob, sentences should be dished out the same.

The idea of placing more or less importance on a human is THE VERY definition of inequality!

You're telling me one human is worth more than another.

Originally Posted by DaveM

I'm not sure I understand you.

Hate crime laws make various ethnicity's, sexual orientations, and religions a protected class.

For example: if an overweight child is mocked, terrorized and bullied the law see's that as less severe than doing the same to a person of a religious minority. Both of these examples are hateful and hurtful.

Why prioritize the value of one human being over another?

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Minorities, Jews, the disabled are more vulnerable and susceptible as targets for abuse and violence. Several times, I've seen deliberate confrontations between whites and Hasidic Jews. Random hateful targetting that is tormenting Jews, both adults and children alike. It's not funny for a Hasidic child to fall off his bike and have a hard fall on the edge of a curb because some white guy thinks it's funny to swerve his car at him.

There needs to be harsher punishment doled out to those abuse, torment and kill others just because others were gay, black, woman, disabled. If society at large sees that bigotry is not well tolerated, it will re-think twice before making someone a scapegoat/punching bag.

Motives are ALWAYS taken under consideration in court. So motives do matter. An individual who abused one guy over a fight is very different from an individual who intentionally targets gays, minorities and/or the disabled upon whom to inflict harm.