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Unread 10-31-2011, 09:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Deforestation: Problems

Over the years, I have read several articles and informative pieces on the subject. I found it interesting that Amazon produces 20% of the world's oxygen. The rain forests around the world produces 40% of the world's oxygen.

However, from what I have read, we have lost half of the world's forests in the last 300 years, and we have lost half of the rain forests in just 50 years. It is estimated that rain forests may be gone within 40 years if nothing is done about it.

Nearly half of the plants, animals and microorganisms will go extinct as a result of the massive deforestation in the next 25 years. We are losing an average of 137 plant, animal and insect species every day. It equals to 50,000 species a year.

Rainforest Facts

I think it's a real concern that not many are taking seriously.
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Unread 10-31-2011, 09:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I agree with you. It is a grave concern. You know, we need to listen to the indigenous peoples regarding the earth. They have a lot of wisdom, and their observations of what is happening are very accurate. Their beliefs about the connectedness of all things and the interdependant factor regarding all life is pretty much on target.
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Unread 10-31-2011, 09:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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time to watch a new episode of Terra Nova....
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Unread 10-31-2011, 10:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
Over the years, I have read several articles and informative pieces on the subject. I found it interesting that Amazon produces 20% of the world's oxygen. The rain forests around the world produces 40% of the world's oxygen.

However, from what I have read, we have lost half of the world's forests in the last 300 years, and we have lost half of the rain forests in just 50 years. It is estimated that rain forests may be gone within 40 years if nothing is done about it.

Nearly half of the plants, animals and microorganisms will go extinct as a result of the massive deforestation in the next 25 years. We are losing an average of 137 plant, animal and insect species every day. It equals to 50,000 species a year.

Rainforest Facts

I think it's a real concern that not many are taking seriously.
I take it very seriously. I find the 40 year prediction to be a little hard to believe. But it's still a huge problem.
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Unread 10-31-2011, 10:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I take it very seriously. I find the 40 year prediction to be a little hard to believe. But it's still a huge problem.
well - it's just saying that at our current pace, it will be gone in 40 years and that's a cold hard fact.

but that's not likely to happen because people will undoubtedly take action in... perhaps 10 years..... or 20 years... and that can extend rainforest's lifeline to perhaps 60 years or so.

I can only hope that by the time we take action... it's not too late since rainforest contains majority of cures for our diseases.
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Unread 10-31-2011, 11:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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well - it's just saying that at our current pace, it will be gone in 40 years and that's a cold hard fact.

but that's not likely to happen because people will undoubtedly take action in... perhaps 10 years..... or 20 years... and that can extend rainforest's lifeline to perhaps 60 years or so.

I can only hope that by the time we take action... it's not too late since rainforest contains majority of cures for our diseases.
Yeah let's hope.
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Unread 10-31-2011, 11:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I agree with you. It is a grave concern. You know, we need to listen to the indigenous peoples regarding the earth. They have a lot of wisdom, and their observations of what is happening are very accurate. Their beliefs about the connectedness of all things and the interdependant factor regarding all life is pretty much on target.
But there are some who cut down trees to farm something. Yeah, I agree that there should be more rainforests. I wish the south american people would find different line of work that doesn't involve cutting down trees.
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Unread 10-31-2011, 11:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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But there are some who cut down trees to farm something. Yeah, I agree that there should be more rainforests. I wish the south american people would find different line of work that doesn't involve cutting down trees.
Stop going to mcdonalds... . ALL OF YOU GUYS!

That ****in mcrib - where do you think the meat come from??
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Unread 10-31-2011, 11:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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But there are some who cut down trees to farm something. Yeah, I agree that there should be more rainforests. I wish the south american people would find different line of work that doesn't involve cutting down trees.
we can't really build more rainforest. it's basically permanent damage but all hope is not lost. it can be fixable but it's going to take centuries for it to heal from the damage we caused.

fortunately - due to remarkable advance in genetic engineering and several other scientific discoveries and also other discoveries yet to be found in future.... it is definitely possible to restore it in a way.
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Unread 10-31-2011, 11:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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But there are some who cut down trees to farm something. Yeah, I agree that there should be more rainforests. I wish the south american people would find different line of work that doesn't involve cutting down trees.
The Americans need to stay out of there, too.
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Unread 11-01-2011, 10:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Stop going to mcdonalds... . ALL OF YOU GUYS!

That ****in mcrib - where do you think the meat come from??
You probably already know that I am vegetarian.
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Unread 11-01-2011, 11:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I do think that deforestation IS a problem, it definitely raises the carbon output due to lack of trees, increased fuel burning, causes soil erosion and bad soil temperament, list goes on.

However at the same time there are other things to consider, food for thought for the discussion. This is where you put your high-brows on, get ready!

- Many plants and trees, especially species in deciduous forests utilize photorespiration. Photorespiration is the case when there's too much oxygen and not enough CO2, they start using the excess O2 to get a weakened form of energy via carboxylation, and a lot of excess waste of energy is input to create less output.
I think (not sure of 100% of this) this is one of the main scientific reasons why forests can never effectively become the top producers of oxygen on earth, because the plants will shift to what they need in an area accordingly.

- Second part is that that the cyanobacteria (algae) of the oceans provide nearly half if not more of the world's oxygen -- an alternative is to stimulate their growth, which some scientists are actually doing but at a controlled rate because of the fear of dead zoning an area of the ocean. This in turn increases our O2 production with complete efficiency without reliance on plants and trees because cyanobacteria are easy to control, but at the same time it's dangerous because it's also playing with the ocean's food web. I think the world's future brings things like "oxygen farms" to modern life when O2 supplies are recognized to be dropping. This feature is out already and is known as algaculture.

But the main concern I have with deforestation is the misuse of the energy, although it seems it can't be helped. A lot of those forests are being used to power old diesel equipment in poor 2nd/3rd rate world countries which they don't really have money to upgrade, and rely on them for day to day money and salaries. It's sort of like making these impoverished nations forced into another job.
Though that probably isn't exactly a bad thing, is it the right thing to do?
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Unread 11-02-2011, 09:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by naisho View Post
I do think that deforestation IS a problem, it definitely raises the carbon output due to lack of trees, increased fuel burning, causes soil erosion and bad soil temperament, list goes on.

However at the same time there are other things to consider, food for thought for the discussion. This is where you put your high-brows on, get ready!

- Many plants and trees, especially species in deciduous forests utilize photorespiration. Photorespiration is the case when there's too much oxygen and not enough CO2, they start using the excess O2 to get a weakened form of energy via carboxylation, and a lot of excess waste of energy is input to create less output.
I think (not sure of 100% of this) this is one of the main scientific reasons why forests can never effectively become the top producers of oxygen on earth, because the plants will shift to what they need in an area accordingly.

- Second part is that that the cyanobacteria (algae) of the oceans provide nearly half if not more of the world's oxygen -- an alternative is to stimulate their growth, which some scientists are actually doing but at a controlled rate because of the fear of dead zoning an area of the ocean. This in turn increases our O2 production with complete efficiency without reliance on plants and trees because cyanobacteria are easy to control, but at the same time it's dangerous because it's also playing with the ocean's food web. I think the world's future brings things like "oxygen farms" to modern life when O2 supplies are recognized to be dropping. This feature is out already and is known as algaculture.

...
Yeah good science!!!

Last edited by FireTiger; 11-02-2011 at 09:14 AM. Reason: dropped a bracket.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 10:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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My ex husband worked for Stride Rite in their food court and I told my ex that
Stride Rite raise it cattle in rainforest and Stride Rite is cutting the rainforest to do this. My ex did not believe ,until he came home from work one day . He said he saw a woman that worked for Stride Rite carrying a huge box filled with files and my ex asked what going on. The woman said " people been protesting Stride Rite for destroying the rainforest to raise their cattle and I have read all the letters!" This was about 15 years ago. I read that people should not buy
furniture that made trees from the rainforests.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 10:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I do think that deforestation IS a problem, it definitely raises the carbon output due to lack of trees, increased fuel burning, causes soil erosion and bad soil temperament, list goes on.

However at the same time there are other things to consider, food for thought for the discussion. This is where you put your high-brows on, get ready!

- Many plants and trees, especially species in deciduous forests utilize photorespiration. Photorespiration is the case when there's too much oxygen and not enough CO2, they start using the excess O2 to get a weakened form of energy via carboxylation, and a lot of excess waste of energy is input to create less output.
I think (not sure of 100% of this) this is one of the main scientific reasons why forests can never effectively become the top producers of oxygen on earth, because the plants will shift to what they need in an area accordingly.

- Second part is that that the cyanobacteria (algae) of the oceans provide nearly half if not more of the world's oxygen -- an alternative is to stimulate their growth, which some scientists are actually doing but at a controlled rate because of the fear of dead zoning an area of the ocean. This in turn increases our O2 production with complete efficiency without reliance on plants and trees because cyanobacteria are easy to control, but at the same time it's dangerous because it's also playing with the ocean's food web. I think the world's future brings things like "oxygen farms" to modern life when O2 supplies are recognized to be dropping. This feature is out already and is known as algaculture.

But the main concern I have with deforestation is the misuse of the energy, although it seems it can't be helped. A lot of those forests are being used to power old diesel equipment in poor 2nd/3rd rate world countries which they don't really have money to upgrade, and rely on them for day to day money and salaries. It's sort of like making these impoverished nations forced into another job.
Though that probably isn't exactly a bad thing, is it the right thing to do?
Nature has the remarkable ability to keep things in balance. It is man that throws it out of balance. The point is learning to work with the enviornment, not against it. We harm not only the environment, but destroy ourselves in the process.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Hey I was watching that show (History Channel, Ancient Aliens)

It's good for a laugh...

But the head Alien dude said that rainforest were planted, by Aliens...

So maybe we can get tehm to stop back by and replant or something. *shakes head*
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Nature has the remarkable ability to keep things in balance. It is man that throws it out of balance. The point is learning to work with the enviornment, not against it. We harm not only the environment, but destroy ourselves in the process.
Yes! I wish those greedy businessmen/women would wake up and see the truth.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yes! I wish those greedy businessmen/women would wake up and see the truth.
They don't care, money is the bottom line for them.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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They don't care, money is the bottom line for them.
Yes and that is why I wish that they wake up.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hey I was watching that show (History Channel, Ancient Aliens)

It's good for a laugh...

But the head Alien dude said that rainforest were planted, by Aliens...

So maybe we can get tehm to stop back by and replant or something. *shakes head*
Did you see the segment on the 13 crystal skulls and the Mayan gateway ceremonies?
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Did you see the segment on the 13 crystal skulls and the Mayan gateway ceremonies?
Hmm, just like that movie... Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Hmm, just like that movie... Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
Actually, that movie was a reference to this.

Attended a ceremony last week-end. The Mayan elders did a cleansing ceremony at Serpent Mound about an hour from me. They are stopping in several Native American sacred sites in their journey to take the 13 crystal skulls across the country.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Actually, that movie was a reference to this.

Attended a ceremony last week-end. The Mayan elders did a cleansing ceremony at Serpent Mound about an hour from me. They are stopping in several Native American sacred sites in their journey to take the 13 crystal skulls across the country.
Yes, all of the Indy Jones movies are references to real-life historical events and mythologies. I do recall reading some stories on the crystal skulls.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Hey I was watching that show (History Channel, Ancient Aliens)

It's good for a laugh...

But the head Alien dude said that rainforest were planted, by Aliens...

So maybe we can get tehm to stop back by and replant or something. *shakes head*
You mean that Giorgio guy? I'm with you on that, I don't know.. maybe it was aliens!

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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Yes, all of the Indy Jones movies are references to real-life historical events and mythologies. I do recall reading some stories on the crystal skulls.
It is really a pretty interesting myth, and the ceremony I attended was fascinating. Pretty cool stuff.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Do we need another thread?

*pouts*
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:52 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Here's a complicated argument from the 'pros' (if you consider it that) of deforestation. It mainly has to do with the economy and government of those local regions. I feel that the issue is complex and the fix is not so black and white, ie, stop deforestation and all problems go away. It seems more of a gray area more than anything. These countries want a better life and hope to gain money comes first, they will work in sweatshops, hard labor, agriculture and deforestation to get it.

Take the situation of the Brazlian amazon rainforest for example, one of the chief areas of debate:

Deforestation in the Amazon
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Why is the Brazilian Amazon being Destroyed?

In many tropical countries, the majority of deforestation results from the actions of poor subsistence cultivators. However, in Brazil only about one-third of recent deforestation can be linked to "shifted" cultivators. Historically a large portion of deforestation in Brazil can be attributed to land clearing for pastureland by commercial and speculative interests, misguided government policies, inappropriate World Bank projects, and commercial exploitation of forest resources. For effective action it is imperative that these issues be addressed. Focusing solely on the promotion of sustainable use by local people would neglect the most important forces behind deforestation in Brazil.

Brazilian deforestation is strongly correlated to the economic health of the country: the decline in deforestation from 1988-1991 nicely matched the economic slowdown during the same period, while the rocketing rate of deforestation from 1993-1998 paralleled Brazil's period of rapid economic growth. During lean times, ranchers and developers do not have the cash to rapidly expand their pasturelands and operations, while the government lacks funds to sponsor highways and colonization programs and grant tax breaks and subsidies to forest exploiters.

A relatively small percentage of large landowners clear vast sections of the Amazon for cattle pastureland. Large tracts of forest are cleared and sometimes planted with African savanna grasses for cattle feeding. In many cases, especially during periods of high inflation, land is simply cleared for investment purposes. When pastureland prices exceed forest land prices (a condition made possible by tax incentives that favor pastureland over natural forest), forest clearing is a good hedge against inflation.

Such favorable taxation policies, combined with government subsidized agriculture and colonization programs, encourage the destruction of the Amazon. The practice of low taxes on income derived from agriculture and tax rates that favor pasture over forest overvalues agriculture and pastureland and makes it profitable to convert natural forest for these purposes when it normally would not be so.


Revista de Economia e Sociologia Rural - Fitting the facts and capitalizing on new opportunities to redesign rural development programs in Latin America
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2. There are major changes in the structure of employment and sourc es of income for rural populations
Reliance on non-agricultural employment and income for the rural population has been increasing rapidly and is of great importance.
2.1. Changes in employment patterns
Farm employment has declined in most countries, especially its self-employment component. There has by contrast been a rapid rise in the share of rural population employed in non-agricultural wage labor and non-agricultural self-employment. For men, Durston et al. (2000) give the following changes in percentage employed in non-farm activities:
With the exception of Brazil, these figures show that employment in non-farm activities of the rural employed population has been rising rapidly. For Brazil, other sources show a clear increase in rural non-farm employment. Between 1981 and 1997, rural non-farm employment increased by 95% in the Northeast, 51% in Sao Paulo, 52% in the Southeast, 69% in the South, and 100% in the center-West.
2.2. Changes in sources of income
Corresponding to changes in employment patterns, there have been rapid changes in sources of income, with addition of a rapid rise in transfers, particularly remittances from migrants. For Mexico (World Bank-Mexico, 2004), changes in sources of income for the rural population have been as follows between 1992 and 2002:
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Estudos Avançados - Energy and environment in Brazil


(This figure above compares the energy types and use of Brazil vs the world ('Mundo' means world in spanish - see the renewable/ traditional biomass section)
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Biomass
A specific characteristic of Brazil is the high industrial development and the application of biomass energy technologies. Some good examples of this are: ethanol production from sugar cane, charcoal from eucalyptus plantations, electricity co-generation from sugar cane bagasse and the use of biomass in the paper and pulp industries (barks and residues from trees, sawdust, black liquor, etc.). The use of biomass in Brazil is the result of several factors combined, including the availability of resources and of cheap labor, fast industrialization and urbanization rates and the historical experience with industrial applications of that energy source on a large scale. Approximately 75% of the alcohol produced comes from the sugar cane juice (which yields close to 5 liters per tonne of sugar cane). The remaining 25% come from the molasses that results from sugar production (with a yield of almost 335 liters per tonne of molasses). In 2004, total bagasse production was close to 110 million tonnes, which generated a surplus of .2 million tonnes for non-energy purposes. The energy products resulting from sugar cane contributed with 13.5% of the Brazilian energy matrix in 2004.

The use of fuelwood in Brazil is still significant, mainly in the charcoal pits to produce charcoal and to cook food in the residences. In 2004, the residential sector consumed approximately 26 million tonnes of fuelwood, which was equivalent to 29% of the production. Consumption has been growing in recent years due to the higher costs of its direct substitute, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), which is sold in pressurized steel bottles. Almost 40 million tonnes were used in the charcoal production (44% of the production), due especially to the strong growth of the production of pig iron and the substitution of mineral coal. The remaining 17% represent consumption in agriculture and cattle raising, as well as in the other industrial sectors. Fuelwood and charcoal represented 13.2% of the 2004 matrix, 0.3% higher than in 2003.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 02:59 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I think it's a real concern that not many are taking seriously.
To be sure, it is a real concern(in the rain forest), but people are doing things about it in other parts of the word(for the oxygen issue).


Yes, the rainforest is losing trees, but we are gaining trees in other areas of the world as well.

REFORESTATION LAW IN OREGON AND SELECTED OTHER STATES

Deforestation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I remember I saw a Pen & Teller show about this stuff and it was hilarious. I think it was the show were they tried to ban water (That's right H2O).

The fact of the matter is: People have to plant more trees when they cut one down because of state law. Also, it would be counter productive for the logging industry if they do not because it would put them out of business(makes no sense).

People use Environmental Hysteria to make money. This is why early members of Green Peace resigned because these organizations become money machines.

Greenpeace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There needs to be balance between environmental organizations and businesses because humans and their environment need to coexist.

If you want to keep the rain forest there, were do you want to keep the people?

Personally, I think we can have a more environmentally friendly civilization, but there is a line because nobody is going to plant a Redwood tree in their back yard.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 03:01 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Do we need another thread?

*pouts*
No. It all has to do with environmental concerns. Just an indigineous perspective of such.
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