The Origins of Homosexuality - Page 30

FireTiger · 11-23-2011, 09:17 PM

Trying to figure out what country in the world treats it's veterans as bad as USA...

**sallylou** · 11-23-2011, 09:18 PM

TCS, you can't be naive enough to think that illegal things don't happen in any institution. I've seen documents documenting illegal actions. You'd think that people would be smarter than that. My theory is that the people who do this are so narcissistic that they believe they will never be caught. All entities have people that act outside the bounds of the law. Often, superior agents cover it up.

**deafskeptic** · 11-23-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

TCS, you can't be naive enough to think that illegal things don't happen in any institution. I've seen documents documenting illegal actions. You'd think that people would be smarter than that. My theory is that the people who do this are so narcissistic that they believe they will never be caught. All entities have people that act outside the bounds of the law. Often, superior agents cover it up.

I can think of a recent example right here on this forum. There was a certain poster who thought she'd never get caught when she created several accounts. she got caught and I think - perna ban - from AD for her actions. I'll grant that no mods covered up her actions..

**TXgolfer** · 11-23-2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Has Obama ever made a consistent effort to visit wounded soldiers or families of fallen soldiers on a regular basis? I was most impressed when GWB did this often, and visited families of fallen soldiers although his visitations weren't publicized in details until years later did we know. God bless him.

Ya know, perhaps Bush had more time to visit injured vets since he gave up golf once the war started. Those rounds Obama has played so far amount to 600 hours he could have spent with vets. *shrug*

At least he raced from the golf course to watch OBL get taken out,

**TinCanSailor** · 11-23-2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

TCS, you can't be naive enough to think that illegal things don't happen in any institution. I've seen documents documenting illegal actions. You'd think that people would be smarter than that. My theory is that the people who do this are so narcissistic that they believe they will never be caught. All entities have people that act outside the bounds of the law. Often, superior agents cover it up.

If you notice I did say if anything that was not regulated or ordered is illegal. I agree people think they can get away with just about anything.

Presidents Nixon and Clinton, former IL Governor George Ryan, Hedge Fund founder Raj Rajaratnam, former congressman James Traficant, former Cheney Chief of Staff "Scooter" Libby, Associate Attorney General Webster Hubble, CO of USS C. E. Williams, Commander Paul Marquis (allowing fraternization on his ship), CO of USS Sullivans, Commander Mark Olson (fired upon a fishing boat by accident), CO Logistics Aviation Unit Bahrain, Captain David Geisler (loss of confidence to lead), CO USS Ponce, Captain Holly Graf (cruelty to her crew), etc.

All of these people were either censured, jailed, or removed from a position of authority. These are supposed to be the brightest of the bright.

These are just a small sampling of people who think they don't have to follow regulations (LAW).

**TinCanSailor** · 11-23-2011, 11:52 PM

I just had to add this one from last week:

CO USS Ponce, Commander Jones failed to report and take proper corrective action for hazing and for poor judgment during a security drill where she endangered two sailors with a loaded...weapon. Upon conclusion of the Mast, [her superior] relieved CDR Jones of her command due to loss of confidence stemming from the aforementioned Mast, unprofessional conduct, rendering her chain-of-command largely ineffective by marginalizing her senior leaders and displaying blatant favoritism to select junior officers, and for cultivating a hostile work environment permeated by verbal abuse, fear, and intimidation.

She was the replacement for Captain Graf I just mentioned. So sad:

**TXgolfer** · 11-23-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

I just had to add this one from last week:

CO USS Ponce, Commander Jones failed to report and take proper corrective action for hazing and for poor judgment during a security drill where she endangered two sailors with a loaded...weapon. Upon conclusion of the Mast, [her superior] relieved CDR Jones of her command due to loss of confidence stemming from the aforementioned Mast, unprofessional conduct, rendering her chain-of-command largely ineffective by marginalizing her senior leaders and displaying blatant favoritism to select junior officers, and for cultivating a hostile work environment permeated by verbal abuse, fear, and intimidation.

She was the replacement for Captain Graf I just mentioned. So sad:

kokonut · 11-23-2011, 11:56 PM

While I'm at it before I forget, TCS, I just wanted to say thank you (and your wife) for your service in the military on helping protect the United States. Just as I'm proud of my brother and his son, my sister, and other relatives such as my cousin (who was killed in that famous fragging incident by a sargent in Kuwait who murdered two comrades and injured scores others) for their services.

**TinCanSailor** · 11-24-2011, 12:11 AM

I miss the good old days when the captain spoke, you trembled with fear and trepidation. Enjoyed watching the daily floggings, hoisting of the Jolly Roger flag, destroying the enemy with cannons and swords. Only bathed once a year and never shaved. Sailed for foreign islands, buried treasure and beautiful wenches. The only regulations were from the captain's mouth!

Oh wait! That was a movie I recently saw.......

**TinCanSailor** · 11-24-2011, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

While I'm at it before I forget, TCS, I just wanted to say thank you (and your wife) for your service in the military on helping protect the United States. Just as I'm proud of my brother and his son, my sister, and other relatives such as my cousin (who was killed in that famous fragging incident by a sargent in Kuwait who murdered two comrades and injured scores others) for their services.

Thank you. And thank you for your family's service and sacrifice also.

**sallylou** · 11-24-2011, 12:33 AM

Regulations aren't laws. Congress passes laws. Agencies pass regulations based on laws. Regulations are great bedtime reading.

My dad was a WWII hero. He and all of my uncles were in the Army Airforce. I have respect for those guys. Not just someone that enjoys ordering people around.

**TinCanSailor** · 11-24-2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Regulations aren't laws. Congress passes laws. Agencies pass regulations based on laws. Regulations are great bedtime reading.

My dad was a WWII hero. He and all of my uncles were in the Army Airforce. I have respect for those guys. Not just someone that enjoys ordering people around.

Sorry. I am usually military think. I have only been a "civilian" 19 years. Soon I will get it right.

**sallylou** · 11-24-2011, 12:46 AM

I get the military terms mixed up. The guys in the corps always hated me. I really didn't mean any offense.

**TinCanSailor** · 11-24-2011, 12:49 AM

WW II

My dad: Army Air Corps
His brother: Marines
His brother: Army
His brother: Army

My mom's:
Brother: Navy
Brother: Navy Seebee
Brother: Army

WW I

My grandfather: Army

Civil War

My great-grandfather: Army
(wounded in battle)

All made it back. My dad was a navigator on a C-47 in Burma. Graduated from the 8th grade.

**TinCanSailor** · 11-24-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

I get the military terms mixed up. The guys in the corps always hated me. I really didn't mean any offense.

None taken.

**TXgolfer** · 11-24-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Regulations aren't laws. Congress passes laws. Agencies pass regulations based on laws. Regulations are great bedtime reading.

My dad was a WWII hero. He and all of my uncles were in the Army Airforce. I have respect for those guys. Not just someone that enjoys ordering people around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

Sorry. I am usually military think. I have only been a "civilian" 19 years. Soon I will get it right.

Actually TCS is correct....The USMJ which he mentioned (post 867) is law.

Uniform Code of Military Justice: Military Legal Resources (Federal Research Division: Customized Research and Analytical Services, Library of Congress)

Quote:

The UCMJ is a federal law enacted by Congress; it may be cited as United States Code, Title 10, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 47

**Jiro** · 11-24-2011, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Actually TCS is correct....The USMJ which he mentioned (post 867) is law.

Uniform Code of Military Justice: Military Legal Resources (Federal Research Division: Customized Research and Analytical Services, Library of Congress)

it only applies to USMJ which is not applicable in civilian court. USMJ is a [federal] "law" because military "works" for federal government. federal government (Congress) sets the rules which is a law for USMJ

**TXgolfer** · 11-24-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

it only applies to USMJ which is not applicable in civilian court. USMJ is a [federal] "law" because military "works" for federal government. federal government (Congress) sets the rules which is a law for USMJ

Yeah....yeah I am well aware of that...

kokonut · 11-24-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

WW II

My dad: Army Air Corps
His brother: Marines
His brother: Army
His brother: Army

My mom's:
Brother: Navy
Brother: Navy Seebee
Brother: Army

WW I

My grandfather: Army

Civil War

My great-grandfather: Army
(wounded in battle)

All made it back. My dad was a navigator on a C-47 in Burma. Graduated from the 8th grade.

What a rich military history you have!
My great-Uncle on one of the Pacific islands while in the Army. (killed, shot in the back by a Japanese sniper).

Pvt William P. Stone. He died at age 94 in 1938. He was 19 yrs old when he enlisted as a confederate soldier in 1862. He was twice wounded, once at Murfreesboro & then at Chicamauga. After recovering from wounds received in the Battle of Murfreesboro, Private William Pitchford Stone was wounded a second time in one of the bloodiest battles of the western region of the civil war. He fought with distinction under the command of Confederate General Braxton Bragg and was recently honored by the Daughters of the Confederacy in a grave-side ceremony in Oregon, where he is buried. He spent some years in Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas and Oklahoma before retiring in Oregon. He was one of very few oldest surviving civil war veterans back then. The last surviving civil war veteran died in 1959.
William Pitchford Stone

**TinCanSailor** · 11-24-2011, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Yeah....yeah I am well aware of that...

Boys, boys. Play nice now.

UCMJ Article 134 was my favorite because if you could not charge someone with a specific offense article. 134 covered everything else in life! Can't do that in U.S. court system.

**Jiro** · 11-24-2011, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Yeah....yeah I am well aware of that...

oh good I'm glad

**Jiro** · 11-24-2011, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

Boys, boys. Play nice now.

UCMJ Article 134 was my favorite because if you could not charge someone with a specific offense article. 134 covered everything else in life! Can't do that in U.S. court system.

lol wow. just read up on it. interesting piece.

**TXgolfer** · 11-24-2011, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

Boys, boys. Play nice now.

UCMJ Article 134 was my favorite because if you could not charge someone with a specific offense article. 134 covered everything else in life! Can't do that in U.S. court system.

That would sure make things interesting.

jillio · 11-24-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

I hear plenty of criticism. Especially since Obama said he would close Gitmo and he didn't.

Me, too.

But it seems like around here, if you aren't calling for Obama's death, you aren't criticizing.

jillio · 11-24-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireTiger

Trying to figure out what country in the world treats it's veterans as bad as USA...

None. And you should see the way they treat their homosexual vets.

jillio · 11-24-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

The military runs on regulations. They are written down, copied, distributed, cataloged. Everything that you do is laid out in extreme detail. Each department, command, staff, company, etc. does it and each senior command conducts routine inspections of all regulations and commands under them. All levels of command eventually end up to the Pentagon level. Then the JCS report to the existing civilian levels right up to the President.

When a military leader approves a plan of attack for instance, he/she must get permission sighting regulation ###### or approved OPLAN (Operational Plan)#####.

Submarine commanders cannot fire upon any country just because he wants to. He gets permission.

Air Force bases cannot launch aircraft loaded with weapons against others without permission, etc.

So when a senior member of the armed forces starts "indoctrinating" his subordinates. No mater what it is. If it is not ordered by regulation and approved by higher authority, it is illegal and should be reported. I have seen many a service member punished under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) for violating a written regulation or order. Others punished for making something up. Being the Legal Yeoman of many commands might have giving me insight. Talk back to your boss, leave your assigned work space without an ok, fail to complete an assigned task can get you confined with 3 days of bread and water only or worse.

For you to insinuate that we "Reba and I" after 45 years of combined military service don't know what we are talking about is laughable.

When President Obama ordered the "go" to take out pirates to save that American ship captain, it was written regulations that required his permission based upon the circumstance. The CO of that ship received a written order or confirmed radio transmission to make it happen.

If returning service members are saying stuff that is made up, it is them who are stirring up trouble. If it is true, it is their duty to report it to make it known.

And as an aside, yes there are more PTSD cases than in the past due to the long deployments under hostile conditions.

There were just as many PTSD cases in WWI and WWII. They just did not call it PTSD at that tme.

Oh, yeah. These vets are making it up. Nice loyalties to the men that have served on the front lines. The VA hospitals are full of men who are making this stuff up. To what end?

Forty five years of military service just tells me what your mind set is at this point in time. Protect the name of the military, and sacrifice the men.

**deafskeptic** · 11-24-2011, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

There were just as many PTSD cases in WWI and WWII. They just did not call it PTSD at that tme.

Oh, yeah. These vets are making it up. Nice loyalties to the men that have served on the front lines. The VA hospitals are full of men who are making this stuff up. To what end?

I'll say. My dad was a medic in the Air Force during the Koran war though he never fought on the front lines..

jillio · 11-24-2011, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

I just had to add this one from last week:

CO USS Ponce, Commander Jones failed to report and take proper corrective action for hazing and for poor judgment during a security drill where she endangered two sailors with a loaded...weapon. Upon conclusion of the Mast, [her superior] relieved CDR Jones of her command due to loss of confidence stemming from the aforementioned Mast, unprofessional conduct, rendering her chain-of-command largely ineffective by marginalizing her senior leaders and displaying blatant favoritism to select junior officers, and for cultivating a hostile work environment permeated by verbal abuse, fear, and intimidation.

She was the replacement for Captain Graf I just mentioned. So sad:

What does that have to do with soldiers being trained to demonize and dehumanize the "enemy"?

jillio · 11-24-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Ya know, perhaps Bush had more time to visit injured vets since he gave up golf once the war started. Those rounds Obama has played so far amount to 600 hours he could have spent with vets. *shrug*

At least he raced from the golf course to watch OBL get taken out,

Riiiiight. Finished up the job Bush couldn't do.

You might want to keep in mind that Bush's policies had VA hospitals throwing sick and injured men out on the streets.

**deafskeptic** · 11-24-2011, 08:41 AM

I think I have heard about Commander Jones but I am also at loss as what it has to do with soldiers being trained to demonize and dehumanize the enemy.

11-23-2011, 09:18 PM	#872 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	TCS, you can't be naive enough to think that illegal things don't happen in any institution. I've seen documents documenting illegal actions. You'd think that people would be smarter than that. My theory is that the people who do this are so narcissistic that they believe they will never be caught. All entities have people that act outside the bounds of the law. Often, superior agents cover it up. deafskeptic likes this. __________________

11-23-2011, 11:52 PM	#876 (permalink)
TinCanSailor Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: South Carolina Posts: 449	I just had to add this one from last week: CO USS Ponce, Commander Jones failed to report and take proper corrective action for hazing and for poor judgment during a security drill where she endangered two sailors with a loaded...weapon. Upon conclusion of the Mast, [her superior] relieved CDR Jones of her command due to loss of confidence stemming from the aforementioned Mast, unprofessional conduct, rendering her chain-of-command largely ineffective by marginalizing her senior leaders and displaying blatant favoritism to select junior officers, and for cultivating a hostile work environment permeated by verbal abuse, fear, and intimidation. She was the replacement for Captain Graf I just mentioned. So sad: __________________ Obama, Clinton & Rice - BENGHAZI-GATE!

11-23-2011, 11:56 PM	#878 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	While I'm at it before I forget, TCS, I just wanted to say thank you (and your wife) for your service in the military on helping protect the United States. Just as I'm proud of my brother and his son, my sister, and other relatives such as my cousin (who was killed in that famous fragging incident by a sargent in Kuwait who murdered two comrades and injured scores others) for their services. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-24-2011, 12:11 AM	#879 (permalink)
TinCanSailor Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: South Carolina Posts: 449	I miss the good old days when the captain spoke, you trembled with fear and trepidation. Enjoyed watching the daily floggings, hoisting of the Jolly Roger flag, destroying the enemy with cannons and swords. Only bathed once a year and never shaved. Sailed for foreign islands, buried treasure and beautiful wenches. The only regulations were from the captain's mouth! Oh wait! That was a movie I recently saw....... __________________ Obama, Clinton & Rice - BENGHAZI-GATE!

11-24-2011, 12:33 AM	#881 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Regulations aren't laws. Congress passes laws. Agencies pass regulations based on laws. Regulations are great bedtime reading. My dad was a WWII hero. He and all of my uncles were in the Army Airforce. I have respect for those guys. Not just someone that enjoys ordering people around. jillio and deafskeptic like this. __________________

11-23-2011, 09:17 PM	#871 (permalink)
FireTiger Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Arl, Jax, NE-FL, SE-USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Universe A, Mutiverse 1 Posts: 518	Trying to figure out what country in the world treats it's veterans as bad as USA...

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11-24-2011, 12:46 AM	#883 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	I get the military terms mixed up. The guys in the corps always hated me. I really didn't mean any offense. __________________

11-24-2011, 12:49 AM	#884 (permalink)
TinCanSailor Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: South Carolina Posts: 449	WW II My dad: Army Air Corps His brother: Marines His brother: Army His brother: Army My mom's: Brother: Navy Brother: Navy Seebee Brother: Army WW I My grandfather: Army Civil War My great-grandfather: Army (wounded in battle) All made it back. My dad was a navigator on a C-47 in Burma. Graduated from the 8th grade. __________________ Obama, Clinton & Rice - BENGHAZI-GATE!

11-24-2011, 08:41 AM	#900 (permalink)
deafskeptic Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 14,512	I think I have heard about Commander Jones but I am also at loss as what it has to do with soldiers being trained to demonize and dehumanize the enemy. __________________ Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007. Activated on May 9th. Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010 Think Pink. FREE JILLIO!

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