The Origins of Homosexuality - Page 13

Sunshine · 11-02-2011, 12:23 PM

Fits nowhere else huh? I bet last penny my bank account it has fit in your hand at some point or other.

FireTiger · 11-02-2011, 12:26 PM

Looky a neat article:

SpringerLink - Human Genetics, Volume 87, Number 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Therefor, one cannot prove that any people are born homosexual.

So the biological cause of homosexuality in humans is unproven.

If it's not biological, then there must be another cause.

But is it right to marginalize a group of humans for genetic reasons?

Sam, born Samantha*- who goes by Sam as he identifies as a male has no noticeable breast, does grow light facial hair, is more muscular then average females, has very rare but very debilitation menstruation (about twice a year) and of course has a vagina... is called a 'butch' homosexual even though he is likely to have one for the genetic issues that causes his attraction to females...

But he has no rights as a male because some people decided all 'males' are males all 'females' are females and genes don't matter so he would have trouble getting married even though he has a committed relationship...

...just because he was born with what (I'm told) looks like a vagina instead of a penis...

(why are people using V and P... are these biological names 'icky'?)

jillio · 11-02-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

You are probably refering to post #5, so you are still wrong.
The OP stated "biological construct" as if what a specific body part is used as. I've stated here that we all use different body parts for what Mother Nature did NOT intend that specific body part to be used for. Therefore, it a choice that people do go against Mother Nature.

The first 5 words of the quote I pulled from you specifically say that homosexuality is a choice, because you were answering a question as to why anyone would still believe it was a choice.

Be careful what you ask for rolling7...you just might get it. In this case you did.

Rolling, rolling, rolling, keep them doggies rolling......

You said homosexuality was a choice. You claimed you did not say that. Busted. Too bad. And that was just the first post I could find. We all know there are hundreds of them on this forum. You do realize that when you spout this crap it can come back and bite you in the ass, don't you? Oh wait.....I guess you realize it now!

And you didn't even bother to thank me for doing what you asked me to do. How rude!

**shel90** · 11-02-2011, 01:12 PM

You know what I find sickening about this thread?

Homosexuality doesnt hurt innocent people who are heteorsexual.

However, deforesting, gun ownership, oralism, voting the wrong candidate, sentencing people who use certain drugs unfairly, or etc are the issues that can affect society as a whole.

jillio · 11-02-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

You know what I find sickening about this thread?

Homosexuality doesnt hurt innocent people who are heteorsexual.

However, deforesting, gun ownership, oralism, voting the wrong candidate, sentencing people who use certain drugs unfairly, or etc are the issues that can affect society as a whole.

Exactly. You want to fight against something? Fight against those things that harm society as a whole. How about putting some time into fighting against domestic violence if you want to get involved in people's relationships.

FireTiger · 11-02-2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

You know what I find sickening about this thread?

Homosexuality doesnt hurt innocent people who are heteorsexual.

However, deforesting, gun ownership, oralism, voting the wrong candidate, sentencing people who use certain drugs unfairly, or etc are the issues that can affect society as a whole.

Well, the argument is little Johnny sees it and ask questions, that are really no harder to answer then straight couple questions... but some people think so.

If it's important to teach your child that homosexuality is not a part of 'The Plan' (whatever plan that happens to be for that parent, emotional, religious, biological...) it's not that hard to say, "Joe and Bob are a couple, just like mommy and daddy- but because they are both (sex goes here), (infomercial about 'The Plan' here)."

Almost the same discussion is possible with Freddie crack-head, "Freddie puts poisons into his body and it hurts him, but Freddie does this anyway, maybe beacuse he liked other poisons that didn't hurt him as much... Don't do drugs"

Legislating against something, anything- does not cause it to cease... just cease being, nor not becoming legal.

I personally just refuse to harm a group of people based on things I -don't- know about them, I will not condemn the many for the one who is genetically innocent. It's not for me to judge... not for me to decide if 'this' female is too female to be a partner to 'that' other female- either of which might be male genetically.

rolling7 · 11-02-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The first 5 words of the quote I pulled from you specifically say that homosexuality is a choice, because you were answering a question as to why anyone would still believe it was a choice.

Be careful what you ask for rolling7...you just might get it. In this case you did.

Rolling, rolling, rolling, keep them doggies rolling......

You said homosexuality was a choice. You claimed you did not say that. Busted. Too bad. And that was just the first post I could find. We all know there are hundreds of them on this forum. You do realize that when you spout this crap it can come back and bite you in the ass, don't you? Oh wait.....I guess you realize it now!

And you didn't even bother to thank me for doing what you asked me to do. How rude!

There are TWO parts to the OP but I know you ignored that fact.
The OP speaks of biological construct and that has nothing at all to do with homosexuallity or any sexuallity. As I said, your choice to use your fist as a hammer or not.

jillio · 11-02-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireTiger

Well, the argument is little Johnny sees it and ask questions, that are really no harder to answer then straight couple questions... but some people think so.

If it's important to teach your child that homosexuality is not a part of 'The Plan' (whatever plan that happens to be for that parent, emotional, religious, biological...) it's not that hard to say, "Joe and Bob are a couple, just like mommy and daddy- but because they are both (sex goes here), (infomercial about 'The Plan' here)."

Almost the same discussion is possible with Freddie crack-head, "Freddie puts poisons into his body and it hurts him, but Freddie does this anyway, maybe beacuse he liked other poisons that didn't hurt him as much... Don't do drugs"

Legislating against something, anything- does not cause it to cease... just cease being, nor not becoming legal.

I personally just refuse to harm a group of people based on things I -don't- know about them, I will not condemn the many for the one who is genetically innocent. It's not for me to judge... not for me to decide if 'this' female is too female to be a partner to 'that' other female- either of which might be male genetically.

Little Johnny is probably asking questions because he was born with a genetic predisposition to that orientation.

But seriously, kids are going to ask questions about heterosexuals, too. All you have to do is answer them in a very simple and direct manner. Problem solved. Kids are curious. They want to know things. Not answering their questions only makes them ignorant adults.

jillio · 11-02-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

There are TWO parts to the OP but I know you ignored that fact.
The OP speaks of biological construct and that has nothing at all to do with homosexuallity or any sexuallity. As I said, your choice to use your fist as a hammer or not.

What do you think a biological construct is?

Hint: go get a dictionary and then spend some time looking a bunch of words up.

What does a fist or a hammer have to do with sexuality?

Oh.......wait.......sadomasochist, right? You into that, are you?

**deafskeptic** · 11-02-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

What do you think a biological construct is?

Hint: go get a dictionary and then spend some time looking a bunch of words up.

What does a fist or a hammer have to do with sexuality?

Oh.......wait.......sadomasochist, right? You into that, are you?

Aren't' gays into THAT?

(I know both straights and gays are into that but they're sterotypically gay.)

jillio · 11-02-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Aren't' gays into THAT?

(I know both straights and gays are into that but they're sterotypically gay.)

You'll have to ask rollling7. He seems to know something about it.

FireTiger · 11-02-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ildri

With all the scientific evidence out there that homosexuality is a biological construct, and the fact that members of the LGBT community themselves say that their sexual orientation is a part of who they are, why do some still claim that it's a choice?

Here's the OP-

I provided all kinds of places which indicate physically confused sex genes- which understandably could lead to a person labeled as homosexual when they are just 'equipped wrong' on the outside.

the "choice" issue to the OP is confusing as some in the community do claim to pick who they are attracted to- but by in large the majority do not believe they can change who they want, just how they act.

If we can come to the conclusion that not every person in a same-sex relationship is -actually- in a same-sex relationship once you look genetically... then picking on someone because of an extra gene or a piece of a missing gene suddenly is as barbaric as it looks.

If you wouldn't pick on Trisomy 8, 9, 13, 16, 17, 18, 21, (etc) and you would allow those persons all rights and privileges of being an adult human, why pick on someone that has Klinefelter's?

rolling7 · 11-02-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

What do you think a biological construct is?

Hint: go get a dictionary and then spend some time looking a bunch of words up.

What does a fist or a hammer have to do with sexuality?

Oh.......wait.......sadomasochist, right? You into that, are you?

Biological construct means what your specific body part is specifically intended for. To use a body part for other that its intended purpose is a choice.
This fits along the line that your fist was never meant to be a hammer, get off your lazy butt and go get a real hammer to use. But it also fits along the line that a fist was not intended to be force into an anus nor a vagina, you are free to do so if you wish.

jillio · 11-02-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Biological construct means what your specific body part is specifically intended for. To use a body part for other that its intended purpose is a choice.
This fits along the line that your fist was never meant to be a hammer, get off your lazy butt and go get a real hammer to use. But it also fits along the line that a fist was not intended to be force into an anus nor a vagina, you are free to do so if you wish.

No, that isn't what it means.

That is where you are making your mistake. Attempting to discuss things you are grossly incorrect about.

FireTiger · 11-02-2011, 02:37 PM

Construct - definition from Biology-Online.org

Quote:

Construct

Construct

(noun) The combination of a bone graft, metal instrumentation, prosthetic devices and/or bone cement applied to a specific level of the spinal column in the setting of segmental spinal instability.

Oh wait... wrong one...
Module 9: Definitions | Dean of Students

Quote:

Module 9: Definitions

There is often confusion around three terms that exist here: sex, sexual orientation, and gender. This point of clarification may help.

Sex is the category for what is actually in your pants. This can be something assigned at birth, something chosen, or something else entirely.

Gender is the kind of pants you are wearing. These change over time with experience, choice, peer group, and preference. This also includes how other people view your pants and the attributes they give to them.

Sexual orientation is whose pants you would like to get into. This can change over time, be a solid category, or be something more flexible. (http://bama.ua.edu/~safezone/2010manual.pdf)

Sex - a biological construct that labels a person based on their primary and secondary sex characteristics that include: hormones, genitalia, outside appearance such as facial hair or breasts, and chromosomes.

Intersex - a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. Inappropriate: Hermaphrodite.

Sexual Orientation- a term used to refer to a person's emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction to individuals of a particular gender.

Heterosexual - a person attracted primarily to people of the opposite sex.

Homosexual - a person attracted primarily to people of the same sex. Appropriate: gay, lesbian. Inappropriate: fag, faggot, dyke.

Bisexual - a person attracted to people of both sexes (not necessarily equally).

Pansexual - a person attracted to people regardless of gender.

Asexual - someone who does not experience sexual attraction.

Here's a yucky article (in that it is unjust)
http://college.cengage.com/psycholog..._20020324.html

jillio · 11-02-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireTiger

Construct - definition from Biology-Online.org

Oh wait... wrong one...
Module 9: Definitions | Dean of Students

Here's a yucky article (in that it is unjust)
http://college.cengage.com/psycholog..._20020324.html

I got an error on the link, but if it is unjust, it is probably just as well.

FireTiger · 11-02-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I got an error on the link, but if it is unjust, it is probably just as well.

Psychology Resource Center for Students

Quote:

Student Resources for Psychology
Psych in the News
Kansas Court Rules that Transgendered Woman is a Man

By Elaine Cassel

When Joe Gardner’s 85-year-old father died in 1999 without a will, meaning that he and his father’s 40-year-old wife would equally divide his father’s $2.5 million estate, Joe set out to find a way to get it all for himself. He did not know how easy it would be until he found out that his father had married a man.

Actually, Marshall Gardiner had married a woman, J’Noel Ball. Or at least she was a woman when he married her. Through some crafty investigation, son Joe learned that J’Noel was transgendered. Diagnosed with gender dysphoria disorder, J’Noel had undergone sex reassignment treatment and surgery in 1994 to change her biological sex (male) to her identified gender (female). She changed her name from Jay to J’Noel and obtained a new birth certificate under Wisconsin law (the state of her birth, and one of 20 states that provide new birth certificates upon sex reassignment surgery) that identified her by her new name and sex. J’Noel married Marshall in 1998.

Joe contested the will in Kansas, where Marshall Gardiner lived with his young wife. He alleged that his father had been defrauded and did not know he was marrying a transgendered man. More importantly, since Joe could not prove that Marshall was a victim of J’Noel’s fraud, he alleged that under Kansas law sex reassignment surgery did not change the legal fact: a person born a man or a woman will be a man or a woman forever. And since same-sex marriages are not recognized as legal marriages in any state (though Vermont recognizes same-sex unions, it does not grant them the same legal status as marriage), Marshall Gardiner could not have been legally married to J’Noel. Thus, Joe would inherit all of his father’s wealth.

The Kansas court agreed with Joe. Its opinion shows a lack of understanding of the distinct concepts of sex and gender. Sex is a biological construct, determined in utero according to chromosomes that control the development of external and internal sex characteristics. But gender is a psychological construct. It is an intimate part of our self-concept, developed between the ages of two and five, in which we either identify with our biologically determined sex or, in rare instances, reject it and insist that there is a boy or girl trapped in the body of the opposite sex.

The DSM-IV diagnosis of gender dysphoria disorder (sometimes referred to as gender identity disorder) involves a rejection of one’s biological sex and an intense desire to actually be the other sex. Gender dysphoria disorder does not refer to a boy being "effeminate" or a girl being a "tomboy." Rather, the sufferer actually identifies him- or herself as the opposite of their biologically determined sex.

The Kansas court, however, misses that distinction between one’s biologically innate sex and one’s gender. It ruled that one’s gender is fixed by the "Creator" at birth, and cannot be changed by a physician’s scalpel. Once having found this, the court said that the marriage was invalid from the outset and that son Joe was the beneficiary of his father’s entire estate.

The decision indicates the gap between the law and psychology. Even though psychology and medicine recognize and treat gender dysphoria disorder, many states refuse to legally sanction the sex change, forcing transgendered people who undergo the ultimate treatment--painful surgical sex reassignment and life-long hormone treatment—to live in legal limbo. J’Noel is a biological female (by virtue of her sex reassignment surgery) and a psychological female (as a result of her gender dysphoria). But, under the law of Kansas and other states, she is still Jay—in J’Noel’s body.

You can read the full text of the court’s opinion at:

KS Court Cases: Find KS Opinions at FindLaw

Elaine Cassel, Marymount University and Lord Fairfax Community College

maybe it will work now...

**deafskeptic** · 11-02-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireTiger

Psychology Resource Center for Students

maybe it will work now...

That one is definitely yucky.

**deafskeptic** · 11-02-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

That one is definitely yucky.

And I find outrageous that J'noel got cheated out of an inheritance.

jillio · 11-02-2011, 05:26 PM

FireTiger was kind enough to PM me the story, so I read it as well. This is absurd. You know, I would like to see Sallylou weigh in on this one, but I am under the impression that this changes from state to state. I have a transgendered client and even her birth certificate has been changed to state that she is female. I have seen her documentation. She moved from another state and had to have her birth certificate to ger her identification in this state.

**deafskeptic** · 11-02-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

FireTiger was kind enough to PM me the story, so I read it as well. This is absurd. You know, I would like to see Sallylou weigh in on this one, but I am under the impression that this changes from state to state. I have a transgendered client and even her birth certificate has been changed to state that she is female. I have seen her documentation. She moved from another state and had to have her birth certificate to ger her identification in this state.

That blows.

jillio · 11-02-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

That blows.

That it differs by state? Yeah it does.

Ildri · 11-02-2011, 09:54 PM

Enjoy.

jillio · 11-03-2011, 10:54 AM

Love it!

dogmom · 11-04-2011, 08:15 AM

Ildri

Audiofuzzy · 11-04-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

If you ask my dad, he say my brother gay because my mother let him play with my sisters dolls when he very small. This make same sense say he gay because he choose be.

rotflmao

did it ever occur to your dad your brother chose to play with them dolls because
he WAS gay in the first place ????

Your little brother was attracted to dolls, not trucks because he was.... GAY !!!!

mystery solved!

Fuzzy

Sunshine · 11-04-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

rotflmao

did it ever occur to your dad your brother chose to play with them dolls because
he WAS gay in the first place ????

Your little brother was attracted to dolls, not trucks because he was.... GAY !!!!

mystery solved!

Fuzzy

Lol I think he attract dolls not trucks because at time, he have two sisters only. He play many tea party, lol.

khrixmrozh · 11-04-2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Yup. At least the Aspies that I know ..... And that isn't even mentioning autism.

Don't piss me off, Steinhauer.

I'm an Aspie, autisitic. Tom-ay-to tom-ah-to. I have empathy. All Aspies have empathy. The true difficulty lies with the identification of facial expressions, body language, and matching them to a specific emotion.

It takes time to learn how to read people, but I already had empathy in place. I also have emotions, just that I have difficulty sorting them out as to why I feel a particular way.

Do not put forth any more ignorant claims. Do your f***ing homework before you say anything that may or may not turn out to be false.

Steinhauer, autistic people that you know lacking empathy? Actually, it's just difficulty processing the emotional undercurrents present in the situation at the given time. Do not judge them. I don't think you really know them that well, whatever the relationship, length of time, etc., if you say things like that.

Also, as I understand it, Aspies are even less likely to commit murder, as it is a form of deception, which we are horrible at, and it is what we call rule-breaking. Murder is against the law, so it is against the rules.

I thank those who set the record straight. I'll thank anyone else to research first. Bloody ignorance. Ignorance seems to beget corruption, or at least contribute to it.

khrixmrozh · 11-04-2011, 09:06 PM

What happened to J'Noel is a civil rights violation, whether the law recognizes it as such or not. F***ing bulls***.

Audiofuzzy · 11-04-2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Lol I think he attract dolls not trucks because at time, he have two sisters only. He play many tea party, lol.

lolol

that could be too, why he played dolls and tea party - it's called opportunity and circumstances, BUT

if that was true in making gay, then all the little boys who only had sisters and played with dolls would grew up gay.

Playing with some particular toy over and over, does not turn a child into gay or lesbian,
so your father's still is wrong.

He is just looking for someone, something to blame.
Nothing, no one is to blame - "you are born this way", remember??

So again, if he played with dolls because he was attracted to them,
it was because his preferences were already pre-set, that's all.

Accept your brother for who is is -he is beautiful human being just as he is.

Fuzzy

11-02-2011, 12:23 PM	#361 (permalink)
Sunshine Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Home of Canucks! Posts: 3,269 Blog Entries: 2	Fits nowhere else huh? I bet last penny my bank account it has fit in your hand at some point or other. jillio likes this.

11-02-2011, 01:12 PM	#364 (permalink)
shel90 Let It Snow!!!! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,295 Blog Entries: 3	You know what I find sickening about this thread? Homosexuality doesnt hurt innocent people who are heteorsexual. However, deforesting, gun ownership, oralism, voting the wrong candidate, sentencing people who use certain drugs unfairly, or etc are the issues that can affect society as a whole. deafdyke, jillio, deafskeptic and 3 others like this. __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

11-02-2011, 09:54 PM	#383 (permalink)
Ildri Registered User Join Date: May 2011 Location: Ohio, for now Posts: 175	Enjoy. deafdyke, jillio, shel90 and 3 others like this. __________________ "Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken" -Oscar Wilde

11-04-2011, 09:06 PM	#389 (permalink)
khrixmrozh Registered User Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA Posts: 38	What happened to J'Noel is a civil rights violation, whether the law recognizes it as such or not. F*ing bulls*. jillio likes this. __________________ Careful...I bite!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

11-02-2011, 05:26 PM	#380 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	FireTiger was kind enough to PM me the story, so I read it as well. This is absurd. You know, I would like to see Sallylou weigh in on this one, but I am under the impression that this changes from state to state. I have a transgendered client and even her birth certificate has been changed to state that she is female. I have seen her documentation. She moved from another state and had to have her birth certificate to ger her identification in this state.

11-03-2011, 10:54 AM	#384 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	Love it!

11-04-2011, 08:15 AM	#385 (permalink)
dogmom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5,475	Ildri