Are Drug Users Persecuted? - Page 9

jillio · 11-12-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Not true.

Drug abuse often starts with abuse.

Fuzzy

You are so naive, Fuzzy.

**Beowulf** · 11-12-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Not true.

Drug abuse often starts with abuse.

Fuzzy

Not really. It often starts from trying to get out of the mold they perceive themselves to be in.

Audiofuzzy · 11-12-2011, 08:32 PM

Kids from loving, balanced families do get sometimes involved with drugs and become addicted, okay,

but apart from genetic component, majority of drug addicts are those who have painful/ dysfunctional past.
There is something that cause addictive behavior in the first place.

It's a fact.

Do you think for example all these rich and celebrities are getting hooked merely because they have money and can?

Another reason to becoming addicted, this more due to RX medication abuse
is for instance being Rx painkillers for pain in the first place.

Fuzzy

Berry · 11-12-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Kids from loving, balanced families do get sometimes involved with drugs and become addicted, okay,

Fuzzy

Interesting point. Problem is "What is a loving, balanced family?"

Often this is a cultural concept, not a realistic one.

As an outsider to the family what you believe to be a wonderful family could be a horrible experience for the individuals behind closed doors.

Bigger problem.

Two or more children raised in the same household can see their parents in entirely different ways. Even twins can have vastly different views of their upbringing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

but apart from genetic component, majority of drug addicts are those who have painful/ dysfunctional past.

Fuzzy

Same problem as above. A family that appears dysfunctional from the outside can be a healthy, positive experience for the children.

Further problem.

Memory is not reliable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Do you think for example all these rich and celebrities are getting hooked merely because they have money and can?

First step in understanding this is to realize the pressures exerted on the rich and famous. Start with this Impostor syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Another reason to becoming addicted, this more due to RX medication abuse
is for instance being Rx painkillers for pain in the first place.

Fuzzy

Correct.

But it does not account for the widespread social problems we currently face.

jillio · 11-12-2011, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

Interesting point. Problem is "What is a loving, balanced family?"

Often this is a cultural concept, not a realistic one.

As an outsider to the family what you believe to be a wonderful family could be a horrible experience for the individuals behind closed doors.

Bigger problem.

Two or more children raised in the same household can see their parents in entirely different ways. Even twins can have vastly different views of their upbringing.

Same problem as above. A family that appears dysfunctional from the outside can be a healthy, positive experience for the children.

Further problem.

Memory is not reliable.

First step in understanding this is to realize the pressures exerted on the rich and famous. Start with this Impostor syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Correct.

But it does not account for the widespread social problems we currently face.

Correct. And until we address the social ills, we will never get a handle on addiction.

Berry · 11-13-2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Correct. And until we address the social ills, we will never get a handle on addiction.

To me one of the biggest social ills is the desire of Americans to legally take away the rights of others "For Their Own Good." or "For Their Safety." or "To Help Them Live Normal Lives."

When someone can't be the person they want to be it is easier to look at drug addiction, or even suicide, as viable alternatives.

**shel90** · 11-13-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Not true.

Drug abuse often starts with abuse.

Fuzzy

One of my brothers was never abused and yet he has problems with drug abuse.

**Beowulf** · 11-13-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Kids from loving, balanced families do get sometimes involved with drugs and become addicted, okay,

but apart from genetic component, majority of drug addicts are those who have painful/ dysfunctional past.
There is something that cause addictive behavior in the first place.

It's a fact.

Do you think for example all these rich and celebrities are getting hooked merely because they have money and can?

Another reason to becoming addicted, this more due to RX medication abuse
is for instance being Rx painkillers for pain in the first place.

Fuzzy

Have you ever gone through treatment? I am not ashamed to say I went through the process five times. Count 'em, five times. What I have learned is contrary to what you say, no offense.

Berry · 11-13-2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Have you ever gone through treatment? I am not ashamed to say I went through the process five times. Count 'em, five times. What I have learned is contrary to what you say, no offense.

I have never gone through treatment.

But some of the people I love have.

Some of them are still a part of my life.

Others I have had to refuse to associate with any longer.

And some have died.

jillio · 11-13-2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

I have never gone through treatment.

But some of the people I love have.

Some of them are still a part of my life.

Others I have had to refuse to associate with any longer.

And some have died.

Your experience is the norm. Unfortunately, because the last two generally occur more often than the first.

Audiofuzzy · 11-14-2011, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Have you ever gone through treatment?

For what?

Fuzzy

Audiofuzzy · 11-14-2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

As an outsider to the family what you believe to be a wonderful family could be a horrible experience for the individuals behind closed doors.

A loving, balanced family is such where each individual is respectful of another, respect his individuality, his personal space,
is supportive, compassionate and considerate of each other.

That doesn't mean of course saying witlessly "yes" to everything,
but recognizing wrong for wrong and right for right.

These guidelines are universal.

The best example here - the Judge who used to beat his daughter-
maybe he and his family looked "wonderful" on the outside but according to my outline, they still weren't. FAR from it.

btw you are supporting my point - if somebody had an 'horrible experience', which obviously can not be then "loving and supporting"
for these just exclude each other - then that person may later seek the drugs as a way to escape the horrific memories.

Fuzzy

**Beowulf** · 11-14-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

For what?

Fuzzy

Anything.

jillio · 11-14-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

A loving, balanced family is such where each individual is respectful of another, respect his individuality, his personal space,
is supportive, compassionate and considerate of each other.

That doesn't mean of course saying witlessly "yes" to everything,
but recognizing wrong for wrong and right for right.

These guidelines are universal.

The best example here - the Judge who used to beat his daughter-
maybe he and his family looked "wonderful" on the outside but according to my outline, they still weren't. FAR from it.

btw you are supporting my point - if somebody had an 'horrible experience', which obviously can not be then "loving and supporting"
for these just exclude each other - then that person may later seek the drugs as a way to escape the horrific memories.

Fuzzy

You really should go get some education and training prior to making attempts to psychoanalyze. You are making big mistakes in your assumptions.

cmdrwhitewolf · 11-14-2011, 01:44 PM

Hmm, while catching up on this whole thread, and several discussion items from one of the debates in my college Anthropology class came up. Which, interestingly enough, started when a student posited that perhaps drinking alcohol (because of uncontaminated h20 was hard to come by) was being naturally selected for evolutionarily, and thus the reason for predispositions to addictions. The original posit still makes me wonder. But not sure if it can be proved though...

Doug5 · 11-14-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You live in a very, very strange world, Fuzzy. Legalization is not even in the first 100 issues that need to be addressed regarding narcotics. Legalization is not going to prevent people from getting addicted. Addiction is the issue. lol:

and since when do drug laws prevent addiction?

Doug5 · 11-14-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I think it may be around the corner. BTW, so many drug users are self medicating because traditional medicine has not addressed their problems appropriately.

I find that to be an arrogant statement. If that was true, then no one would relapse after drug treatment. Relapse rate after treatment is around 90%, making it the norm.

Then the addict is blamed even though they supposedly have a disease. When in fact, maybe it is the treatment that is flawed and is the blame.

jillio · 11-14-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

and since when do drug laws prevent addiction?

Drug laws are not intended to prevent addiction. They are intended to punish criminal behavior.

Doug5 · 11-14-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireTiger

I might be a great thief, and nobody can tell- it's still illegal...

I might be great at (any illegal activity that does not cause direct harm to another person) and it's STILL illegal.

I might choose to drive at 5 MPH over the speed limit, and otherwise follow all traffic laws... it's still breaking the law...

People that disagree with laws should get organized and change the laws, not just break them willy-nilly.

and what crime was I committing by taking morphine?

jillio · 11-14-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

I find that to be an arrogant statement. If that was true, then no one would relapse after drug treatment. Relapse rate after treatment is around 90%, making it the norm.

Then the addict is blamed even though they supposedly have a disease. When in fact, maybe it is the treatment that is flawed and is the blame.

Once again, you have huge holes in your logic.

No it is not the treatment. It is the unavailability of treatment.

Got a source on that 90%?

Find it as arrogant as you wish. It is fact.

jillio · 11-14-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

and what crime was I committing by taking morphine?

Were you buying it on the street? Were you doctor shopping to get additional supplies?

If you had a prescription, and were taking it as prescribed, then you weren't breaking any laws. That is the whole point. Duh.

Doug5 · 11-14-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Ain't that the truth. lol I prefer to consider it "divergent thinking."

The difference with drug use is that it hurts addicts by definintion. If drug use were not hurting a person, he would not be addicted.

then why it tobacco legal? It hurts 400k a year by killing them horribly? Few people casually smoke cigaretts. Sturgeon general said its more addictive than heroin

Doug5 · 11-14-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

People experiment with things. The difference between a person who tried it and an addict may be brain chemistry. Generally, I believe that shrinks should balance a person's brain chemistry when it's out of wack.

shrinks overstate their ability to correct "brain chemistry" They admit they have no idea how or why, their crazy pills work.

It works cuz its a billion dollar bizness say they do

Doug5 · 11-14-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babyblue

Yes, I am comparing alcohol to opiates. since they both act on the CNS. they both impare your judgement. Just like the Benzos do.

that is simply not true

Doug5 · 11-14-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It doesn't matter if he harmed anyone or not. He still engaged in criminal activity by purchasing drugs illegally and scamming doctors. You don't have to cause injury to another to be guilty of illegal behavior. The drugs are legal. His behavior was illegal. Get it?

Just a pretty good indication that your assertion that making drugs legal will take the criminal behavior away is just a bunch of BS.

sodomy was illegal. Should law enforcement done more to stop it between consenting adults

Doug5 · 11-14-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I guess you haven't checked the DWI stats lately. Of course it has not removed the illegal behavior associated with alcohol. Where do you think White Lightening comes from? Illegal distilleries. No, of course it hasn't stopped the criminal behavior associated with alcohol.

The Mafia out of business. You aren't serious, are you?

Threatened? By whom? Don't flatter yourself.

mafia uses illegal drugs to turn women into prostitutes

jillio · 11-14-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

then why it tobacco legal? It hurts 400k a year by killing them horribly? Few people casually smoke cigaretts. Sturgeon general said its more addictive than heroin

A sturgeon is a fish. Are you sure you're clean.

jillio · 11-14-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

mafia uses illegal drugs to turn women into prostitutes

Source?

Are you suggesting they would change their tactics if drugs were legal? LOL

jillio · 11-14-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

sodomy was illegal. Should law enforcement done more to stop it between consenting adults

Strawman. We are discussing drugs, not sex. Completely different topics.

jillio · 11-14-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

that is simply not true

Now I know for sure that you are under the influence.

11-12-2011, 08:32 PM	#243 (permalink)
Audiofuzzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,384	Kids from loving, balanced families do get sometimes involved with drugs and become addicted, okay, but apart from genetic component, majority of drug addicts are those who have painful/ dysfunctional past. There is something that cause addictive behavior in the first place. It's a fact. Do you think for example all these rich and celebrities are getting hooked merely because they have money and can? Another reason to becoming addicted, this more due to RX medication abuse is for instance being Rx painkillers for pain in the first place. Fuzzy __________________ . A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble. Mohandas Gandhi .

11-14-2011, 01:44 PM	#255 (permalink)
cmdrwhitewolf Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 352	Hmm, while catching up on this whole thread, and several discussion items from one of the debates in my college Anthropology class came up. Which, interestingly enough, started when a student posited that perhaps drinking alcohol (because of uncontaminated h20 was hard to come by) was being naturally selected for evolutionarily, and thus the reason for predispositions to addictions. The original posit still makes me wonder. But not sure if it can be proved though... jillio likes this. __________________ - White Wolf

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