Are Drug Users Persecuted? - Page 11

jillio · 11-14-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

DS, where I live, drugs are worse at private schools where the kids have money. Many kids from more affluent families are given money and material things without parental supervision and guidance. It's a very bad combination. Those kids would be better off with less affluence and more parenting.

Yep. That old urban myth surrounding drug abuse and addiction is so naive.

jillio · 11-14-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Because, you see, NEGLECT is also a form of abuse.

And it can steer towards drugs. this is what usually happen to rich and famous, i.e Lindsay Lohan.

Fuzzy

Wrong.

**deafskeptic** · 11-14-2011, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yep. That old urban myth surrounding drug abuse and addiction is so naive.

My little sister's best friend had parents who were absent for days at a time due to jobs. I count her fortunate that she didn't fall prey to drug and stuff.

jillio · 11-14-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

My little sister's best friend had parents who were absent for days at a time due to jobs. I count her fortunate that she didn't fall prey to drug and stuff.

She had other insulating factors in place, evidently.

Audiofuzzy · 11-14-2011, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Wrong.

Nope, sorry

Do you know what common thread certain celebrities have?
Busy, working, absent and often partying parents. Plus bunch of nannies.

May I recommend reading more biographies?

I however would like to point out that I am not saying this is the only reason for drug abuse and addiction, Of course the reasons are various.

Fuzzy

Audiofuzzy · 11-14-2011, 11:49 PM

Quote:

She had other insulating factors in place, evidently.

And thus you support my argument.

again

Fuzzy

jillio · 11-15-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Nope, sorry

Do you know what common thread certain celebrities have?
Busy, working, absent and often partying parents. Plus bunch of nannies.

May I recommend reading more biographies?

I however would like to point out that I am not saying this is the only reason for drug abuse and addiction, Of course the reasons are various.

Fuzzy

Sorry Fuzzy. You still don't have a grasp of the dynamic. Seriously, go back to school so you are qualfied to make these conclusions.

jillio · 11-15-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

And thus you support my argument.

again

Fuzzy

And, again, you fail to understand what I said because you don't have a grasp of the issues.

Berry · 11-15-2011, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

She had other insulating factors in place, evidently.

Insulating factors.

I think personality has far more to do with the issue than is usually accredited.

Certain things I noticed in drug addicts but not always in alcoholics.

Refusal to accept responsibility for their part in any of their problems or anything that happens.

Lack of patience. Instant gratification or faster.

Intolerance of solitude. Equating solitude with loneliness and a pressing desire to fill in the gaps with people and/ or noise whether they like the people or not.

What I call POS syndrome. In fact they are the only group of people in the world to see the need to abbreviate such an atrocity because they are the only group who would use it so often. (If you don't know what POS is then your experience with and around drug addicts is extremely superficial. Count yourself lucky.)

Part of it is social and was written about extensively by Henry David Thoreau in the 1800's. Unfortunately for our culture, while his concepts are applauded, they are not emphasized in our society nor in our educational system.

Actually our school system tends to foster the very opposite where education consists, not of learning, but a process where you read a book or Listen to a lecture, take a test, and get a grade.

You might say, "Instant Grade--ification."

Berry · 11-15-2011, 07:12 AM

I think my last post also holds a clue to why drugs are so attractive you young people.

We go through a stage in our childhood development where PEOPLE - That is our friends and peers nowadays - are more important to us than any other factor in our lives.

At one time this meant family and tribe but modern living where parents are both working and schools take up most of the child's day -- Family, friends, and tribe become THE foreigners.

Our society could adapt to this, but it is impossible to adapt to that which society refuses to recognize.

Babyblue · 11-15-2011, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

A sturgeon is a fish. Are you sure you're clean.

Yah, Dangerous little fellers too! They like to jump and hit people in boats and knock them out.

cmdrwhitewolf · 11-15-2011, 09:36 AM

Hmm, strikes me in the theme of the 'rich and well off kid' turning to drugs - it might be a case of lack of adversity or stimulation from their environment. And in their attempts to find that stimulation their lacking, they find drugs seem to provide it. Which could help explain why two kids from the same family choose different paths, b/c their coping mechanisms might be different for one thing, and their social explorations in finding stimulation results in different 'answers' to what they feel their missing.

**Beowulf** · 11-15-2011, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

Insulating factors.

I think personality has far more to do with the issue than is usually accredited.

Certain things I noticed in drug addicts but not always in alcoholics.

Refusal to accept responsibility for their part in any of their problems or anything that happens.

Lack of patience. Instant gratification or faster.

Intolerance of solitude. Equating solitude with loneliness and a pressing desire to fill in the gaps with people and/ or noise whether they like the people or not.

What I call POS syndrome. In fact they are the only group of people in the world to see the need to abbreviate such an atrocity because they are the only group who would use it so often. (If you don't know what POS is then your experience with and around drug addicts is extremely superficial. Count yourself lucky.)

Part of it is social and was written about extensively by Henry David Thoreau in the 1800's. Unfortunately for our culture, while his concepts are applauded, they are not emphasized in our society nor in our educational system.

Actually our school system tends to foster the very opposite where education consists, not of learning, but a process where you read a book or Listen to a lecture, take a test, and get a grade.

You might say, "Instant Grade--ification."

I see. So, people ought to know when they are around addicts?

jillio · 11-15-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I see. So, people ought to know when they are around addicts?

I think what Berry is saying is that we need to be aware of and address the social conditions that put all people at greater risk for drug/alcohol abuse and other forms of addictive behaviors.

**Beowulf** · 11-15-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I think what Berry is saying is that we need to be aware of and address the social conditions that put all people at greater risk for drug/alcohol abuse and other forms of addictive behaviors.

A mighty tall order.

jillio · 11-15-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

A mighty tall order.

In this society...danged near impossible. Few see farther than their own noses.

Babyblue · 11-15-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

In this society...danged near impossible. Few see farther than their own noses.

Yup, It's called denial. Some people just can not accept the facts.

**sallylou** · 11-15-2011, 12:24 PM

Wirelessly posted (droid)

Generally, we don't understand children's developmental needs and we don't meet their emotional needs. Some kids are resilient and they will learn to meet their own needs. Other kids are vulnerable and they will become dysfunctional. Some kids will have mental health issues no matter whether emotional needs are met or not.
Dysfunctional families run on denial and it's crazy-making. On a higher level, societies run on denial. It's dangerous to be the truth-teller. At best, the truth-teller will be labeled crazy and ostericized. At worst, the truth-teller will be destroyed. The system is set up to perpetuate the denial.
Mental health care is woefully lacking in the US. Lately, the system pushes prescription drugs, which makes us more of a drug culture. Some people get their own illegal drugs (prescription or street).
The next generation arrives. Lather, rinse, repeat...

**deafskeptic** · 11-15-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Wirelessly posted (droid)

Generally, we don't understand children's developmental needs and we don't meet their emotional needs. Some kids are resilient and they will learn to meet their own needs. Other kids are vulnerable and they will become dysfunctional. Some kids will have mental health issues no matter whether emotional needs are met or not.
Dysfunctional families run on denial and it's crazy-making. On a higher level, societies run on denial. It's dangerous to be the truth-teller. At best, the truth-teller will be labeled crazy and ostericized. At worst, the truth-teller will be destroyed. The system is set up to perpetuate the denial.
Mental health care is woefully lacking in the US. Lately, the system pushes prescription drugs, which makes us more of a drug culture. Some people get their own illegal drugs (prescription or street).
The next generation arrives. Lather, rinse, repeat...

My dad told me once that I was the most honest member of the family.

When I told my counseler that she rolled her eyes at what my father said to me.

FireTiger · 11-15-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

My dad told me once that I was the most honest member of the family.

When I told my counseler that she rolled her eyes at what my father said to me.

... was he lying?

(most honest you, then he's not most honest, therefore he can lie...BUT if he lies about your honesty is he the most honest and therefore can't - wait a minute...)

**sallylou** · 11-15-2011, 06:29 PM

DS's father meant that DS was the least loyal member of the family. Loyal family members don't tell the truth. It wasn't a compliment. In dysfunctional families, communication isn't direct. Once you know the family's agenda, you can see the real message.

Berry · 11-15-2011, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I see. So, people ought to know when they are around addicts?

This response kind of lost me.

The only people I know who can spot an addict with certainty is another addict.

On the other hand people tell me the damnedest things about themselves.

Probably because I don't care what they did, what they are doing, or what they are going to do so long as they aren't hurting me or those I love.

Not every addict lies and steals. And not every non-addict is honest.

**deafskeptic** · 11-15-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireTiger

... was he lying?

(most honest you, then he's not most honest, therefore he can lie...BUT if he lies about your honesty is he the most honest and therefore can't - wait a minute...)

No.

**deafskeptic** · 11-15-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

DS's father meant that DS was the least loyal member of the family. Loyal family members don't tell the truth. It wasn't a compliment. In dysfunctional families, communication isn't direct. Once you know the family's agenda, you can see the real message.

Hence why my counseler rolled her eyes when I told her this.

Berry · 11-15-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I think what Berry is saying is that we need to be aware of and address the social conditions that put all people at greater risk for drug/alcohol abuse and other forms of addictive behaviors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

A mighty tall order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

In this society...danged near impossible. Few see farther than their own noses.

We could always start with the most obvious and work our way down.

For instance I have noticed that lack of self respect is a big factor for addicts, especially the more self destructive ones. Thus the POS syndrome.

These are the addicts that are most apt to wind up in jail.

Where all rights, dignity, and respect is ripped away from them.

Now how is that supposed to solve the problem?

Berry · 11-15-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

My dad told me once that I was the most honest member of the family.

When I told my counseler that she rolled her eyes at what my father said to me.

Not all drug addicts are liars.

I can think of at least two who NEVER lie.

People wish they did.

jillio · 11-15-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

This response kind of lost me.

The only people I know who can spot an addict with certainty is another addict.
On the other hand people tell me the damnedest things about themselves.

Probably because I don't care what they did, what they are doing, or what they are going to do so long as they aren't hurting me or those I love.

Not every addict lies and steals. And not every non-addict is honest.

True. "You spot it you got it", as the saying goes in the 12 step programs.

jillio · 11-15-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

We could always start with the most obvious and work our way down.

For instance I have noticed that lack of self respect is a big factor for addicts, especially the more self destructive ones. Thus the POS syndrome.

These are the addicts that are most apt to wind up in jail.

Where all rights, dignity, and respect is ripped away from them.

Now how is that supposed to solve the problem?

Exactly. Our jails have become the addiction facilities and mental hospitals of our day. Sad.

DaveM · 11-16-2011, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Exactly. Our jails have become the addiction facilities and mental hospitals of our day. Sad.

I have found common ground with you.

On this we can agree.

Berry · 11-16-2011, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Exactly. Our jails have become the addiction facilities and mental hospitals of our day. Sad.

So if we upped the game just a little bit -- Not a whole lot, mind you, just a tad, and instituted group therapy for ALL inmates twice a day, morning and evening (Under a trained and qualified counselor of course) -- would that not be a BIG step in the right direction?

Thus giving those inmates with issues that can be more easily solved the tools to do so?

11-15-2011, 07:12 AM	#310 (permalink)
Berry Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oroville, Ca. Posts: 2,024	I think my last post also holds a clue to why drugs are so attractive you young people. We go through a stage in our childhood development where PEOPLE - That is our friends and peers nowadays - are more important to us than any other factor in our lives. At one time this meant family and tribe but modern living where parents are both working and schools take up most of the child's day -- Family, friends, and tribe become THE foreigners. Our society could adapt to this, but it is impossible to adapt to that which society refuses to recognize. jillio likes this. __________________ Free Jillio! Living life in the sandbox.

11-15-2011, 09:36 AM	#312 (permalink)
cmdrwhitewolf Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 352	Hmm, strikes me in the theme of the 'rich and well off kid' turning to drugs - it might be a case of lack of adversity or stimulation from their environment. And in their attempts to find that stimulation their lacking, they find drugs seem to provide it. Which could help explain why two kids from the same family choose different paths, b/c their coping mechanisms might be different for one thing, and their social explorations in finding stimulation results in different 'answers' to what they feel their missing. jillio and Berry like this. __________________ - White Wolf

11-15-2011, 12:24 PM	#318 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Wirelessly posted (droid) Generally, we don't understand children's developmental needs and we don't meet their emotional needs. Some kids are resilient and they will learn to meet their own needs. Other kids are vulnerable and they will become dysfunctional. Some kids will have mental health issues no matter whether emotional needs are met or not. Dysfunctional families run on denial and it's crazy-making. On a higher level, societies run on denial. It's dangerous to be the truth-teller. At best, the truth-teller will be labeled crazy and ostericized. At worst, the truth-teller will be destroyed. The system is set up to perpetuate the denial. Mental health care is woefully lacking in the US. Lately, the system pushes prescription drugs, which makes us more of a drug culture. Some people get their own illegal drugs (prescription or street). The next generation arrives. Lather, rinse, repeat... jillio, deafskeptic, cmdrwhitewolf and 1 others like this. __________________

11-15-2011, 06:29 PM	#321 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	DS's father meant that DS was the least loyal member of the family. Loyal family members don't tell the truth. It wasn't a compliment. In dysfunctional families, communication isn't direct. Once you know the family's agenda, you can see the real message. jillio and deafskeptic like this. __________________

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