MichaelS

Perhaps I was too indirect, I'll explain my point and then drop any religious discussion. The Bible says a lot of things are bad, not everything that the Bible says is bad are considered bad by modern Christians. Presumably there are those who no longer believe women should be forbidden from teaching men. I've noticed there can be a selectivity from some people in choosing what to condemn with Biblical support. I think it's like school, you get out of it what you put into it. Besides there are many Christians who support gay marriage so as Ildri said, we have a standoff on religious grounds. Besides, no minds will be turned and no hearts will be softened by throwing around Bible quotes.

Religious point explained and dropped.

Now let's see if anybody can find a concrete issue with gay marriage. All the "issues" with interracial marriage fell by the wayside. All the "issues" with deaf people marrying each other fell by the wayside. And the blind people and the other people the majority (i.e. the "non-deviant" (after all a minority of people are in each category, I saw this definition of "deviance" above, people being in a minority are deviant. A definition I do not attach any meaning to but am using to show its ludicrousness in the discussion at hand)) people thought shouldn't be allowed to marry the one they loved.

Let it be clear I am a man who supports marriage between two men or two women (and between a man and a woman too, obviously) and I fully intend to marry a man. I am looking forward to seeing people continue to write that I shouldn't be allowed to

P.S. The wedding will be fabulous

Deafness

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Reba

Just because society ("modern" Christians) changes doesn't mean that God changes.

That only refers to spiritual teaching. Presumably, there are some people who don't follow that. So?

Whether or not people obey God and follow Him is not the same as whether or not God approves of behaviors. God names sin. It's up to the individuals as to whether or not they obey.

A red traffic light means stop. It still means stop, whether or not drivers actually do stop.

MichaelS

Bless you, the religious discussion is over. If you have any non-religious points to make I'd love to hear them.

Don't worry I don't hold grudges, you can still be invited to the wedding

Ildri

VacationGuy234

I've got nothing against gay marriage itself and I think all the religious and moral reasons are dumb.

Although, I do think the people who want it don't realize they are in a better position without it. Once you have marriage, you also have divorce and just ask any divorced bread winner, who was married, how they liked it.

Beyond that, the only problem I see with gay marriage is how you regulate it. How do you determine two straight people are not bilking the system for health benefit and tax reduction? It works into a significant amount of money. The answer is, you can't. You just have to go on faith and I don't have much faith in people not screwing the system.

So basically we now have a law that says anyone can be a couple. Fine, I'm all for that as well, but I think the law should read anyone can be a couple. I'd like to have the woman I'm friends with on my health insurance and I'd like to get money back from taxes too. Single people like myself are footing the bill for this country. I don't get to claim a step 10 on my taxes.

I say we make a law that you don't have to be married to get those benefits. This will solve the problem of divorce; people will be a lot happier and we won't be having these discussions about who sleeps with who.

FireTiger

Well if they find a tax system that works on paper and IRL - then that can be fixed...

We could just change the 'married' to 'co-habituating' if they prove you and your friend do not live together (military deployment and work related travel notwithstanding) you cannot file jointly... If you share a house and share income (one account between you) then you can share tax burden.

See I fixed it.

Reba

Get rid of IRS and income tax all together--change to Fair Tax (sales tax).

That solves even more problems.

Beowulf

As long as it is voluntary.

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FireTiger

Depends, I pay far less then XX%, no state income tax (FL), no tax on produce, etc... lower sales tax then ...TN...

I'm married and 'running' (its a brand new baby business) a business that will show profit next year (or so).

All together (counting state sales tax) I pay less then what is proposed...

((this sounds like a new thread tho))

Sunshine

This assumes belief in God, assumes everyone follows Christian laws, assumes bible ONLY answer. This not true. Christianity is to world religion what the USA is to world countries...the egocentric minority who believes themselves most important, only correct, boss of everything.

Banjo

The truth is, the Christians have no business telling anyone what they can do and what they cannot. The same goes for all of the people of other religions.

Reba

Please note, the original question was:

"Why are some people against this?"

Some people do believe in God, and do believe the Bible, and do follow what God says in the Bible. That's why some people are against same-sex marriage.

It has nothing to do with believing themselves to be most important bosses of everything. They don't.

Banjo

You can believe in what you want to, but it shouldn't influence the law. When the people take their beliefs to the level where it affects everyone on a daily basis, that's when it becomes a problem. They are the one who believe they have the authority to dictate the society and the law.

Reba

In the USA, Christians, like all Americans, have every right to speak up about their beliefs. They have every right to campaign and vote. They have every right to preach from their pulpits. American Christians have the right to call sin, sin. Obviously, they can't stop people from sinning.

As Americans, they don't have the right to break laws without consequence.

Reba

People's beliefs do influence which candidates they support and how they vote.

Dictate? No. Campaign and vote? Yes.

Each American gets one vote.

Banjo

They have the right to voice their beliefs, but they do not have the right to violate anyone's human rights.

Banjo

Call it what you want to, you can dress up a pig, in the end, it's still a pig.

Jiro

marriage is not part of human rights.

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Reba

What are you calling a pig?

Banjo

Love is a human right.

Marriage Equality | Amnesty International USA

Banjo

A pig.

Daredevel7

What's love got to do with marriage?

OH!!! OHH!!!!!

Jiro

they are free to love whoever.

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MichaelS

A few random comments/remarks. What does it say that gay people are willing to pay more in taxes to be married? Some heterosexual people already engage in sham marriages for benefits, so do some homosexual people (by marrying heterosexual people (who wants to be that woman married to a closet case? any volunteers?), or a 2 gay guys marrying 2 gay gals, or...I'm not too good at coming up with ways to bilk the system).

Your last point is theoretically possible (civil unions for all, marriage for none), but who's willing to give up their marriage licenses? I think we'd find a lot more people upset about there being no marriage licenses than people upset that gay people are allowed marriage licenses. There is power in a word. And there would still need to be a means of dissolving the relationship in the eyes of the law. Say two people get "civil union"ed, that means one person gets to make the other person's medical decisions if they get too sick. We need a way to un"civil union" people in case one of the two turns out to be an abuser or something nasty like that. And we already have a system set up for that, marriage and divorce.

Banjo

Not really.

MichaelS

Certainly I am free to love whomever I want to and I'm working such that should I become married in the future it will be recognized by the government. Support continues to rise as people get to know gay people are normal and as people who are staunchly opposed age out of politics. I'm under no illusions there will be 100% acceptance, some people still don't support interracial marriage, some people don't like their children's opposite sexed spouse, but that's ok. Best response is for us to live happy and be married

Would somebody care to tell me why my health care decisions should be determined by my parents and not the man whom I love?

dogmom

individual beliefs based on a religious viewpoint have no place as legal determinant for a whole

dogmom

MichaelS

FireTiger

Why are some people against this?

1) They are bigots?
2) They are ultra religious and think that keeping same sex couples from marrying that they will 'preserve' the family...
3) They are noisy busybodies...
4) ALL OF THE ABOVE
----
It's none of my business...
I wouldn't care...

As a side note I know of churches/places of worship (irrespective of type) that will allow a same sex 'life-promise' which before God and assembles guest ends up being all -but- a legal marriage.

My personal beliefs end at MY body. It governs what -I- choose to do with my body, what I will and won't put in it... What is and isn't appropriate to say and do... for ME.

SilentRider

I noticed some make comments backing up with a Bible verse, my only issue is the mosiac law was done away with, and Jesus set a wonderful example of 2 greatest commands, to love your neighbor as yourself and to love God. I don't see alot of that among all religions. Isn't it being hypocrites judging others when they should be concerned about themselves ? Just a thought.

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