Meat eater VS vegetarian/vegan - Page 6

**Foxrac** · 01-24-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

you're too easy to figure out, kookoo....

Food & Beverage | OpenSecrets

Outback Steakhouse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not surprised, most businesses favor GOP.

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-02-2012, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

BBQ ribs anyone?

I am lean meat eater but not that BBQ ribs...

**Foxrac** · 02-02-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I am lean meat eater but not that BBQ ribs...

What about pulled pork?

ElaineV · 03-18-2012, 09:07 PM

I vote for vegetarian/vegan. It's better for animals, better for the planet, and better for human health.

You can get a free Vegetarian Starter Pack if you're interested in trying. It has recipes, nutrition and health information, product tips, and a lot more. Sometimes they'll give you coupons too.

Just fill out the form online and they'll put a Veg Starter Pack in the mail for you. Use any address - work, home, PO box, whatever works. Here's the link: Free Vegan Guide to Cruelty-Free Eating - Vegas Veg

kokonut · 03-18-2012, 10:39 PM

Just had a delicious fondu with steak and chicken, along with salad, and grilled onion, green and red peppers with garlic salt.

Grayma · 03-20-2012, 12:04 AM

I ate mostly vegetarian until I was pregnant with our sixth child. My midwife told me all her vegetarian clients bled more and took longer to recover. I did some research and decided it wasn't healthier after all, and added a lot more meat into our diet.

It made my husband very happy. Last year we raised our own cows, two of them, grass fed on our pasture, and had them butchered. We have two freezers full of meat now.

rolling7 · 03-20-2012, 11:55 AM

I'm alone in a huge B-B-Q state and city. All my meals are prepared grilled (chicken and fish mostly) and I know the health problems of America are from processed food and fried food. Fresh is best.

PowerON · 03-20-2012, 12:06 PM

If vegan during pregnant, would it affect to child's decision whatever she/he eat? Hear it would give underweight compare to vegetarian which is required dairy and egg that give excellent calcium and protein necessary.

VacationGuy234 · 03-20-2012, 12:20 PM

I eat lean and healthy meat, fish, etc.

However, I will say that we can't go back to non-mass produced, non-steroid injected, non-genetically modified food, there isn't enough food on the planet. Like it or not, (barring war or plague) we are going to have to increase our food production, it's that simple.

IMO, the dumbest thing we ever did was block salmon with dams. Like, nobody could have seen that coming? Just sayin...

rolling7 · 03-20-2012, 12:52 PM

Damn those dams, I hate them!

Grayma · 03-20-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

If vegan during pregnant, would it affect to child's decision whatever she/he eat? Hear it would give underweight compare to vegetarian which is required dairy and egg that give excellent calcium and protein necessary.

Even vegetarian mothers need to supplement because a vegetarian diet does not have everything we need. I think it's the B vitamins in particular that are lacking. Also, children need healthy fats for developing brains. coconut oil and butter are good, but so are animal fats from grass fed animals.

According to what I've read, this is partly because of our sanitized food supply. In 3rd world countries, vegetarians get a lot more animal products in their food than most people realize- mostly because of bugs in grains, seeds, and produce.

PowerON · 03-21-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayma

Even vegetarian mothers need to supplement because a vegetarian diet does not have everything we need. I think it's the B vitamins in particular that are lacking. Also, children need healthy fats for developing brains. coconut oil and butter are good, but so are animal fats from grass fed animals.

According to what I've read, this is partly because of our sanitized food supply. In 3rd world countries, vegetarians get a lot more animal products in their food than most people realize- mostly because of bugs in grains, seeds, and produce.

I recall that one of example that Natalie Portman which is vegetarian and has to give up for temp during her pregnant because she want a health baby.

ElaineV · 04-14-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence-based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their needs.

source: Vegetarian Diets from the Academy

Grayma · 04-14-2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElaineV

source: Vegetarian Diets from the Academy

I know that's the status quo, but I disagree, and I don't think we know as much about nutrition as we've imagined.
Pregnant women and nursing mothers have to supplement for B12, you cannot get that from a vegan or vegetarian diet. Doctors recommend supplementation for iron and folic acid as well, but few iron pills are rich in bio-available iron.
If your diet requires a pill to make up for what isn't in the diet, then I think that says something is wrong with the diet.

CSign · 04-18-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

I recall that one of example that Natalie Portman which is vegetarian and has to give up for temp during her pregnant because she want a health baby.

I've been a strict vegetarian for almost 24 years now, and remained so throughout my two pregnancies. It's not necessary to eat meat to have a healthy life, pregnancy or baby.

ElaineV · 04-23-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayma

If your diet requires a pill to make up for what isn't in the diet, then I think that says something is wrong with the diet.

The American government found it necessary to fortify cow's milk with vitamin D and salt with iodine because average citizens (who ate nonvegan diets) were not obtaining enough of those nutrients on their own.

In fact, the average omni is more likely to be nutrient-deficient than the average vegan. So... the average person isn't actually eating the kind of diet you propose. That is, by your own definition, the vast majority of meat-eaters have "something wrong with their diet."

Would you say that a person of color who lives above the 35th parallel and who therefore must supplement his diet with vitamin D at least during Winter has "something wrong with their diet"? Virtually any diet in that situation is going to require a supplement. Same goes for someone who has a fat absorbtion problem or someone who has PKU.

There are a number of situations and conditions that require supplements in order to save human lives. So why do you have such a huge problem with using dietary supplements to save animals' lives?

Sources:
Vegan B12 deficiency: putting it into perspective | NutritionFacts.org
Vitamin D — Health Professional Fact Sheet
Iodine — Health Professional Fact Sheet
Omnivore vs. Vegan Nutrient Deficiencies | NutritionFacts.org

Grayma · 04-24-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElaineV

The American government found it necessary to fortify cow's milk with vitamin D and salt with iodine because average citizens (who ate nonvegan diets) were not obtaining enough of those nutrients on their own.

In fact, the average omni is more likely to be nutrient-deficient than the average vegan. So... the average person isn't actually eating the kind of diet you propose. That is, by your own definition, the vast majority of meat-eaters have "something wrong with their diet."

Would you say that a person of color who lives above the 35th parallel and who therefore must supplement his diet with vitamin D at least during Winter has "something wrong with their diet"? Virtually any diet in that situation is going to require a supplement. Same goes for someone who has a fat absorbtion problem or someone who has PKU.

There are a number of situations and conditions that require supplements in order to save human lives. So why do you have such a huge problem with using dietary supplements to save animals' lives?

Sources:
Vegan B12 deficiency: putting it into perspective | NutritionFacts.org
Vitamin D — Health Professional Fact Sheet
Iodine — Health Professional Fact Sheet
Omnivore vs. Vegan Nutrient Deficiencies | NutritionFacts.org

Yes, the vast amount of typical diets have something wrong with them. I am no fan of the SAD diet, either, or in pasteurized milk for that matter. The government had to add vitamin D to the most vitamin D rich food on the planet because pasteurization removed it. But whole milk and butter from pastured animals is naturally high in vitamin D.

People of color who lived north of the 35th parallel did not need to supplement their diets with vitamin D when they ate a traditional diet rich in animal fats and fermented fish oils.

If it is your choice of diet that does not provide you with vitamins necessary for health unless you take pills, then that is not a natural, healthy diet. That is true whether you are eating the SAD diet (standard American diet), Vegetarian, or Vegan.

The Vegetarian diet does not provide human beings with vitamins necessary for health. It's not that it doesn't provide enough of them, it's that there are some nutrients necessary for human beings which are utterly lacking in a vegetarian diet. Talking about people with special health conditions is irrelevant to my point- it's not their choice of diet that requires the pills, they couldn't do without supplementation if they only changed diets. But vegetarians would not have to supplement for B12 and other vitamins (and possibly nutrients science has not yet discovered) if they simply changed their diets to a traditional one which included animal products.

There has never been a successful vegan culture. Vegetarian cultures were traditionally eating more animal proteins than they realized.

government fact sheets are generally wrong when it comes to nutrition. These are the people who spent decades telling us that margarine was healthier than butter while margarine is actually a bigger cause of heart disease- they spent decades telling us that transfats were healthier than natural fats that human beings have been eating for thousands of years. They did this because they did not know about transfats (and because they were relying on cherry picked data). But what else don't they know?

It's also not just vitamin D that's missing from vegan and many vegetarian diets. Beta Caratene is not a substitute for Vitamin A.

Quote:

True vitamin A, or retinol, is found only in animal products like cod liver oil, liver and other organ meats, fish, shell fish and butterfat from cows eating green grass.

Under optimal conditions, humans convert carotenes to vitamin A in the upper intestinal tract by the action of bile salts and fat-splitting enzymes. Of the entire family of carotenes, beta-carotene is most easily converted to vitamin A. Early studies indicated an equivalency of 4:1 of beta-carotene to retinol. In other words, four units of beta-carotene were needed to produce one unit of vitamin A. This ratio was later revised to 6:1 and recent research suggests an even higher ratio.1 This means that you have to eat an awful lot of vegetables and fruits to obtain even the daily minimal requirements of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion.

Vitamin A Vagary by Sally Fallon

Red meat is the ONLY dietary source of heart-critical CoQ10. (Dr. Sears)
Meat Protocol

Quote:

As we shall see, many of the vegetarian claims cannot be substantiated and some are simply false and dangerous. There are benefits to vegetarian diets for certain health conditions, and some people function better on less fat and protein, but, as a practitioner who has dealt with several former vegetarians and vegans (total vegetarians), I know full well the dangerous effects of a diet devoid of healthful animal products. It is my hope that all readers will more carefully evaluate their position on vegetarianism after reading this paper.

Myth #1: Meat consumption contributes to famine and depletes the Earth's natural resources.
Myth #2: Vitamin B12 can be obtained from plant sources.
Myth #3: Our needs for vitamin D can be met by sunlight.
Myth #4: The body's needs for vitamin A can be entirely obtained from plant foods.
Myth #5: Meat-eating causes osteoporosis, kidney disease, heart disease, and cancer.
Myth #6: Saturated fats and dietary cholesterol cause heart disease, atherosclerosis, and/or cancer, and low-fat, low-cholesterol diets are healthier for people.
Myth #7: Vegetarians live longer and have more energy and endurance than meat-eaters.
Myth #8: The "cave man" diet was low-fat and/or vegetarian. Humans evolved as vegetarians.
Myth #9: Meat and saturated fat consumption have increased in the 20th century, with a corresponding increase in heart disease and cancer.
Myth #10: Soy products are adequate substitutes for meat and dairy products.
Myth #11: The human body is not designed for meat consumption.
Myth #12: Eating animal flesh causes violent, aggressive behavior in humans.
Myth #13: Animal products contain numerous, harmful toxins.
Myth #14: Eating meat or animal products is less "spiritual" than eating only plant foods.
Myth #15: Eating animal foods is inhumane.

Further information is given about each of these myths at this link:
Myths of Vegetarianism - Weston A Price Foundation

Another problem with any diet heavy in grains is the phytic acid in grains and legumes. If these foods aren't prepared properly, they are binding to minerals in your digestive tract and rendering it impossible for you to benefit from those minerals. This is not limited to vegetarians, of course.
Preparing properly includes soaking and rinsing, soaking in a light acid, or sprouting, or fermenting.
Sprouted bread | The Sweet Beet

Dr. Weston Price traveled the world to study indigenous cultures and find out what their diets were like. He fully expected to find that vegetarian cultures were more healthy, but that is not what he found. He was disappointed about it, but he reported the truth about what he found.

Also see The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan; Folks, This ain't Natural by Joel Salatin; Mary Enig's works...

PowerON · 07-13-2012, 10:40 AM

I recently learn the new thing. Most vegetable have high potassium which would give you a hard to breath or pain chest. It mean, you have to watch how much potassium you're take. Most common that potassium can be found from: tomato paste, orange juice, beet greens, white beans, potatoes, bananas and many other good dietary sources.

whatdidyousay! · 07-13-2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayma

I ate mostly vegetarian until I was pregnant with our sixth child. My midwife told me all her vegetarian clients bled more and took longer to recover. I did some research and decided it wasn't healthier after all, and added a lot more meat into our diet.

It made my husband very happy. Last year we raised our own cows, two of them, grass fed on our pasture, and had them butchered. We have two freezers full of meat now.

That is a lot of crap! I was a vegetarian when I got pregnant and I was fine and I had a friend who a vegetarian for years and she had no problem with being pregnant or after having her baby. What idiot told my sister vegetarian
women can't get pregnant , that is a lot of crap too! You just have to know how to eat a balance diet. I raised my child as a vegetarian and she was a very healthy child .

caz12 · 07-13-2012, 11:01 AM

my son is veggi...i been toying with going on veggie diet for sometime..all i can say is my son alot more healthy than he ever been he runs 10miles a day and do marathons,he could not do that before he become veggie....but growing soya is also causing ecology problems as bad as so many cattle...
that was very intresting article and lot to think about

PowerON · 07-13-2012, 12:20 PM

Also, most vegetarian/vegan receive muscle-wasting. It mean, you would have hard time being sport person.

whatdidyousay! · 07-13-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

Also, most vegetarian/vegan receive muscle-wasting. It mean, you would have hard time being sport person.

Top Ten Vegetarian Athletes (Including Mike Tyson) | ThePostGame

Check out these vegetarian , they do not look like weak to me! I did not lose any muscle as a vegetarian. I have seen meat eaters that are weak.

kokonut · 07-13-2012, 10:54 PM

I love meat! Just had BBQed steak to go with my vegs and rice!

Lau2046 · 07-15-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

I love meat! Just had BBQed steak to go with my vegs and rice!

I could go for a nice Kobe beef steak with a side order of sweet potato fries....

Laura

PowerON · 07-16-2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

Top Ten Vegetarian Athletes (Including Mike Tyson) | ThePostGame

Check out these vegetarian , they do not look like weak to me! I did not lose any muscle as a vegetarian. I have seen meat eaters that are weak.

Mike Tyson isn't play in sport anymore:
1. He retired in 2006.
2. He start on vegan diets 2010.

You can beat Mike this time, he is pretty weak.

caz12 · 07-16-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

What about pulled pork?

whats that?

Anij · 07-16-2012, 04:24 PM

Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

Also, most vegetarian/vegan receive muscle-wasting. It mean, you would have hard time being sport person.

PowerOn - that's not at all true.

It's perfectly possible to be very healthy and very active as a Veggie or Vegan.

There are plenty of sources of protien, fats, vitamins and minerals for veggies, it's just a matter of being educated about what you eat.

Clearly you don't have personal experience as a healthy Veggie yourself or you'd know this.

There are unhealthy veggies who think that it's ok to just not eat meat - without replacing it with other veggie options ... These people aren't going to be nearly as healthy as those who make sure they are getting proper nutrition. The same is true for meat eaters who think that it's fine to be eating burgers and fast food every week.

I've been Veggie for almost 20years - I'm in excellent health, and check in with a nutritionist every few years to make sure I'm getting the right mix of foods. All my doctors say I'm very healthy, have excellent BP, excellent heart condition, my blood work is fantastic etc.

It's simply incorrect that being veggie or vegan is "muscle wasting" or unhealthy.

GeiShAutUm · 07-16-2012, 10:20 PM

I'm vegetarian all the way!

Roca · 07-17-2012, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

Also, most vegetarian/vegan receive muscle-wasting. It mean, you would have hard time being sport person.

This morning I googled up some pages on Bill Pearl,81 years old.

Mr. Pearl is a former bodybuilder and 4 time Mr. Universe winner. He's an
ovo-lacto vegetarian,which means he does eat eggs and milk products.

I remember reading of a study showing that vegetarian middle-age women had stronger bones than their meat-eating counterparts.

If vegetarians tend to have stronger bones or the bones are wearing down at a slower rate,it's possible that athletes could have longer careers as vegetarians.

I'm ovo-lacto myself and have participated in numerous distance races from
5k to marathon.

As a meat eater,I "hit the wall" at mile 17 in my 1st marathon when I was 22 yrs old. In my last 2 marathons,at age 35 and 36,as a vegetarian,I hit the
wall at miles 22 and 23. Same training mileage,diet was different.

PowerON · 07-17-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anij

Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )
PowerOn - that's not at all true.

It's perfectly possible to be very healthy and very active as a Veggie or Vegan.

There are plenty of sources of protien, fats, vitamins and minerals for veggies, it's just a matter of being educated about what you eat.

Clearly you don't have personal experience as a healthy Veggie yourself or you'd know this.

There are unhealthy veggies who think that it's ok to just not eat meat - without replacing it with other veggie options ... These people aren't going to be nearly as healthy as those who make sure they are getting proper nutrition. The same is true for meat eaters who think that it's fine to be eating burgers and fast food every week.

I've been Veggie for almost 20years - I'm in excellent health, and check in with a nutritionist every few years to make sure I'm getting the right mix of foods. All my doctors say I'm very healthy, have excellent BP, excellent heart condition, my blood work is fantastic etc.

It's simply incorrect that being veggie or vegan is "muscle wasting" or unhealthy.

I would love to give you the real experience from me and three other people. They're not well compatible on vegan during the sport and tone.

03-18-2012, 10:39 PM	#155 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Just had a delicious fondu with steak and chicken, along with salad, and grilled onion, green and red peppers with garlic salt. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

03-20-2012, 12:06 PM	#158 (permalink)
PowerON Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 37.5, 126.9 Posts: 10,328 Blog Entries: 5	If vegan during pregnant, would it affect to child's decision whatever she/he eat? Hear it would give underweight compare to vegetarian which is required dairy and egg that give excellent calcium and protein necessary. __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

03-20-2012, 12:20 PM	#159 (permalink)
VacationGuy234 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,796	I eat lean and healthy meat, fish, etc. However, I will say that we can't go back to non-mass produced, non-steroid injected, non-genetically modified food, there isn't enough food on the planet. Like it or not, (barring war or plague) we are going to have to increase our food production, it's that simple. IMO, the dumbest thing we ever did was block salmon with dams. Like, nobody could have seen that coming? Just sayin... __________________

07-13-2012, 10:40 AM	#168 (permalink)
PowerON Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 37.5, 126.9 Posts: 10,328 Blog Entries: 5	I recently learn the new thing. Most vegetable have high potassium which would give you a hard to breath or pain chest. It mean, you have to watch how much potassium you're take. Most common that potassium can be found from: tomato paste, orange juice, beet greens, white beans, potatoes, bananas and many other good dietary sources. __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

07-13-2012, 12:20 PM	#171 (permalink)
PowerON Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 37.5, 126.9 Posts: 10,328 Blog Entries: 5	Also, most vegetarian/vegan receive muscle-wasting. It mean, you would have hard time being sport person. __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

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03-18-2012, 09:07 PM	#154 (permalink)
ElaineV Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 17	I vote for vegetarian/vegan. It's better for animals, better for the planet, and better for human health. You can get a free Vegetarian Starter Pack if you're interested in trying. It has recipes, nutrition and health information, product tips, and a lot more. Sometimes they'll give you coupons too. Just fill out the form online and they'll put a Veg Starter Pack in the mail for you. Use any address - work, home, PO box, whatever works. Here's the link: Free Vegan Guide to Cruelty-Free Eating - Vegas Veg

03-20-2012, 12:04 AM	#156 (permalink)
Grayma Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 958	I ate mostly vegetarian until I was pregnant with our sixth child. My midwife told me all her vegetarian clients bled more and took longer to recover. I did some research and decided it wasn't healthier after all, and added a lot more meat into our diet. It made my husband very happy. Last year we raised our own cows, two of them, grass fed on our pasture, and had them butchered. We have two freezers full of meat now.

03-20-2012, 11:55 AM	#157 (permalink)
rolling7 Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,340	I'm alone in a huge B-B-Q state and city. All my meals are prepared grilled (chicken and fish mostly) and I know the health problems of America are from processed food and fried food. Fresh is best.

03-20-2012, 12:52 PM	#160 (permalink)
rolling7 Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,340	Damn those dams, I hate them!

07-13-2012, 11:01 AM	#170 (permalink)
caz12 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,838	my son is veggi...i been toying with going on veggie diet for sometime..all i can say is my son alot more healthy than he ever been he runs 10miles a day and do marathons,he could not do that before he become veggie....but growing soya is also causing ecology problems as bad as so many cattle... that was very intresting article and lot to think about

07-13-2012, 10:54 PM	#173 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	I love meat! Just had BBQed steak to go with my vegs and rice! KarissaMann05 likes this. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

07-16-2012, 10:20 PM	#178 (permalink)
GeiShAutUm Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 159	I'm vegetarian all the way!

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