Reba

Why are there no black, Hispanic or Asian Mormon polygamous families? Are all the white polygamous families Mormon? Or are there any non-Mormon polygamous families in the USA?

Maybe it's not so much that polygamy is controversial in the USA but that it's just plain not desirable to Americans? In other words, no one's seriously interested in it as an option.

Deafness

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jillio

Exactly. Because we live by Westernized cultural standards, norms, and values, ethnicity aside.

Doug5

Is it? No one is condoning polygamy with child brides. Yet this thread is mostly about Jeffs and young girls forced into marriages.

What about child brides forced into single marriages? Should marriage itself be outlawed because of this?

This thread wasnt about whether men should be allowed to marry children, it is about whether they can marry more than one consenting women.

DeafBadger

I think it hurts both men and women.

The way it hurts women have been discussed already in this thread.

It hurts men because it deprives more men of mates. If a few men get most of the women, that means that there are more men who never have the chance to marry and have children.

Children are one of the biggest ways men leave a legacy of themselves. It's the same thing for women. But even in polygamy, women will still have children. But it prevents a lot of men from ever fathering children.

It could create a lot of very angry men in society who have no outlet. It would be, in the long run, a recipe for revolt.

Not a good idea.

Just because humans evolved to mate and mix and match genes, doesn't mean it's a good idea in a civilized society.

Civilized society depends on everyone getting their "fair" chance at procreation, for both men and women. If people are prevented from that, they will not remain committed to the ideas of that civilization... eventually revolt will happen.

Polygamy is a very bad idea. So is polyandry.

That is my view, anyway.

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deafdyke

jillo, it's not b/c I'm Westernized. It's b/c I'm a feminist, and I see polygamy being a HUGE symptom of a very patriarchal society. Virtually all socieites are heavily patriarchal....does that make it a good thing?
Where are the polyandrists in those societies?
bajagirl, I think that the idea of more then one partner SOUNDS good in theroy. But it really does take a very special and very mature person to be able to handle that sort of realtionship. I dunno...it just seems like a lot of the poly people overall seem to have major major self esteem issues, that they are "self medicating" through being poly.

walrus

poligamy however you spell it doesnt bother me mostly cus I dont care, heres my two cents on it thought *clears throat* if you have 6 wives how in the world can you put up with six women in the same house id go nuts!, if youve watched a desperate houswife show on bravo all they do is B**** and moan about any and everything so I think ill stick with one girl, and as too why its controversial is because the media and government says it is nuff said

jillio

That feminism is Westernized. Not all societies are patriarchal. Many are matriarchal. And many of those practice polyandry.

rebeccalj

I think women are even allowed to work outside the home now. My eldest daughter is still mormon. My second is kind of in and out when convenient for her. Both have worked. Say that prophet *recognize* the need for mothers to be outside home to support family in tough times.

Convenient to woman's movement.

I was frowned on for working outside home with young kids. I get "tsk tsk" from other mothers.

rebeccalj

I'm only aware of mormon polygamists. They broke off in the early 1800s from the mormon church when the prophet had his vision that polygamy was no longer acceptable. It grew from there. Rapidly. When you have multiple wives, who can conceive at the same time, it's not, how do you say, unimaginable.

There is a large polygamous group in Bountiful, British Columbia (my province). They moved up here to be away from the American laws.

sallylou

I'm always amazed when people allow religious authority to dictate their lives. Not all religions do this. I'm only referring to the authoritarian ones.

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rebeccalj

I cannot be sure but I believe that because the break off happen in 1800s, when mormons were very racist, that this carry over to the new generations of polygamists and has not changed to this day. Mainstream mormons have blacks, asians and hispanics in their membership.

kristy2078

There is a lot of people involved in polyamory in the US--relationships with multiple partners. Same as polygamy minus the marriage bit. Polyamory is easier because there is no law covering how many partners one person can have. There are also people who have open relationships; a person can seek out intimacy or dates with another person without having the two partners be involved together. I have seen plenty of threesomes walking around, smooching and hand in hand and stuff. Plus, how many people do you know of that had cheated on their partners? That counts as polyamory.

Reba

But it's not polygamy. That's different.

jillio

Why are you so hung up on polyamory when the topic is polygamy? We know what polyamory is. You don't need to keep defining it for us over and over. We are not discussing relationships that do not involve the concept of marraige.

Sunshine

Bountiful have big legal trouble too right? For same? Marrying children?

rebeccalj

Polyandry has *far* more success rate than polygamy.

rebeccalj

I'm not sure about that. In polygamist societies the women are very rarely given choice. They are told, from young age, this is what we expect of you. Forget your dreams and desires or even natural sexual attraction. Hard to have self esteem issues when you never given a chance to have them in first place.

I agree with you about needing to be in an especially mature place in your life to handle any sort of poly relationship.

Grummer

this probably includes alot of these blue pills to keep up with the demands (if their relationships are truly reciprocal)

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rebeccalj

They are 'molded' that way in many of these societies. They are raised to be submissive to husband. To not have opinion and feelings. You are trying to equate general population, who are allowed to be *all woman* with thoughts and feelings, to a population where women are, in many cases, nothing more than cattle to be divied up amongst men who can still breed no matter their age.

rebeccalj

And they run very successful communities. Hmm, put a woman in charge and anything is possible.

rebeccalj

Yes. Long time investigation happening because of child/adult forced marriages. Warren Jeffs all over again. I think a relative of his came up here but do not know for sure.

DeafBadger

I can believe that. Everyone gets a shot at procreation. Each woman gets to have a child and each man gets to have a child. Or at least, each man *believes* he gets to have a child to pass on. It's still likely not every man gets to pass on his genes.

In polygamy, the losers are much more obvious. In polyandry, it is not as obvious, but the men pony up his resources, because he believes... that child *could* be his. How is he to know?

I still say polygamy and polyandry are bad. Because in both cases, most men lose, because they don't succeed in passing on their genes. Whether some men are more likely to believe they are doing better under polyandry is not the point, in my view. The result is, most of the men might as well be "shooting blanks" because they are still not fathering children.

Having one mate really is the best for men and women. (Of course, I'm not trying to comment on gay and lesbian relationships here. I'm talking about the issue of procreation and passing on ones genes which is a strong human instinct in both men and women regardless of orientation.)

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"Labels are mentally lazy ways by which people assert they know you without knowing you." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

rebeccalj

I do not disagree with you, overall, but the fact is that with polyandry men are more assured of the 'species' moving on. They do not think about whether it is *their* sperm propagating...they just know that a new life is created by the overall union. And, despite what you might think, that is the most important part.

Grummer

anybody wants to engage in mutiple propagation with me?

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rebeccalj

Reba

Grummer never quits.

rebeccalj

A guy has to be persistent.

walrus

im not equating anything I know for a fact that 6 women in one house with one dude is a recipe for disaster id be pretty miserable if i have six wives when one seems too give me a run for my money hehehe jk on the last bit, and im pretty sure the woman in those communes whatever is the correct words make a fuss otherwise we wouldnt be hearing of em rebecca

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rebeccalj

Have you been raised, from young age, in polygamist mentality? I have though a little removed. The women *ARE* different. They are far more submissive because their society frowns upon them if they have opinions and think outside box or, how do you say, stir the pot? Their 'society' shuns them if they try to be different or speak up. This is how they keep them in line. They can't go anywhere unless escape somehow. They are forced to behave or suffer consequences.

Not all polygamist communities are like the 'Browns' on TV who *DO*, I believe, have a more westernized view of marriages between them with jealousy, etc., even though he have 4 wives.

sallylou

The woman has to be submissive to say, sure, honey, bring home another wife!

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