Reba

They are an influence, not a control. People have free will.

Deafness

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jillio

But, you are assuming that it is an influence to stop a behavior which you consider to be socially unnacceptable, such as homosexual behavior, correct?

Reba

God can influence hearts, and therefor behaviors, to change in all ways. He doesn't force anyone to change.

God doesn't base right and wrong on what is socially acceptable. There are many things that are socially acceptable that are against God's will. Also, what is socially acceptable varies on the society. Each society in time and place is different and changeable. God is constant and unchangeable. He doesn't follow trends or political correctness.

jillio

That doesn't answer the question.

Reba

Yes, it does. Read it again.

Do you have more questions?

jillio

Actually, it doesn't. You have simply told me, in rhetorical fashion, what you believe God does and doesn't do. I asked a yes or no question.

Same one. But let me re-phrase that. You are assuming that it is an influence to stop behavior which you consider to be religiously and morally wrong, correct?

Reba

When you phrase your questions like the "When did you quit beating your wife" question, then a simple yes or no won't suffice.

I'm not assuming anything.

I'm stating that "it" (my religious beliefs) are an influence on those who believe the same to stop their sinful behaviors.

jillio

Again, since this is a thread about homosexuality, do you consider homosexuality to be a "sinful behavior" instead of an innate, biologically determined characteristic? And, if you do consider it to be a sinful behavior, do you believe that homosexuality can be eradicated with religion?

Reba

Sexual acts between two people of the same sex is a sin.

"Religion?" No.

jillio

Thank you. You finally answered the questions.

According to your belief system, sexual acts between 2 people of the same sex is a sin. In that case, I would say it would probably be in your best interest not to become involved in a homosexual relationship.

However, there are those that do not consider it to be a sin. It is theirs to judge their own behavior, and you to judge yours.

Loghead

It frustrates me how this is commonly viewed as fact.

StSapphire

As jillio mentioned already, the same place that sexism and racism and all other forms of marginalization and hatred of minority groups comes from - fear and rejection of those different from you. You start with the fear and rejection, and from there you get things like the more judgmental books of the Bible.

So basically, what you're saying is that No True (Born Again) Christian can live in sin, because that disqualifies them as a True Christian, regardless of their beliefs? Internal consistency is something that humans have never been good at, and religious beliefs are nothing special there.

You do realize that quoting the Bible to me bears just as much weight as quoting Harry Potter to me would, right? Just because it says something does not make it true.

So if he hands you a stone tablet saying "Thou shalt rape the virgins" then that is now "Good" because God knows what's best for us?

Yes, my brain is an excellent prediction machine. My brain is capable of abstract representation of ideas and objects and concepts, and is able to run those through scenarios, allowing me to predict what will happen in many different scenarios.

If your moral code is simply "God's/Jesus' word is my command", then you need to be able to predict God's mandates on anything or else you risk having no moral code whatsoever in unfamiliar situations.

According to you. But God is superior, so maybe he was testing you or something else similar. You already said that you can't predict God's actions, so he could proclaim forth a new edict at any time. He's God, he can do whatever the heck he wants.

Unless he does. Because you don't know God's mind, because it's vastly superior to your own.

I did not.

Things like slavery, and ownership of women, and murder and rape. All of which in various books of the bible have been condoned by God.

When you can define "sin" as simply "that which my beliefs declare wrong" then sure they can get away with it. It's simply that "sin" has no rational or objective meaning.

Reba

No, I didn't say that sin disqualifies them as Christians. No one is ever "disqualified" as Christians.


I was showing you the basis for my statement. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe it.

You know, it's as though you don't even read my responses. Are you just yanking my chain?

With 100% accuracy every time? You know ahead of time if you're going to be in an accident?

I know what God requires of me. I don't need to know what God plans to do. I don't need to predict anything.

God cannot lie or act against His character. He's told us in His Word that the Scriptures are complete, so He's not going to add anything.

We do know the mind of God that He's shared with us in His Word. He doesn't want us to be ignorant of His will.

The Bible includes an honest history of what people did. That doesn't mean God condones the actions. He doesn't. In fact, He shows how the wrong actions and behaviors result in terrible consequences, as a warning.

Sin does have meaning if you believe what God said. If you don't believe, then there is no such thing as sin to you. The sin is still there; you just don't see it.

souggy

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say her church? I found out Baptists in New York don't even adhere to the same belief as the Baptists in North or South Carolina. So even within brethrens, there are differences of opinions. The problem with some posters here is they assume their particular church is the same belief as every other Christian's. So when one claim "my religion" it's not as all-encompassing as they're making it out to be.

I fought constantly with a Baptist who disagreed with my mother's teachings. She really did think all Christians follow the same doctrines. To be honest, sometimes, when Reba talks about Christianity, I have no idea where she's coming from because it's completely the opposite of how my family raised their children within their own brethren.

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Reba

I belong to an independent Baptist church. There are churches all over the USA and world that share the same doctrines and statement of faith as my church. Each church is autonomous.

I use the term "religion" in some of my posted replies because that's how the questions were phrased.

flip

You can't support your claims with hard evidence, but I accept it as a faith of yours. It's a question what came first, the chicken or egg.
This also don't explain why this "raised OR born" question don't matter much in other parts of the world, and why it's a cultural obession in the western world. State of the art research on those matters, don't try to answer that question anymore, because it's too narrow and only makes sense in a historical context, where the christian church and it's sodomy policy have ruled the mindset for centuries in the western world.

So, it's still a question, that origins from a specific religious(or quasi religious for those of you who confess to a functional definition of religion) mindset.

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flip

Good question. It's one of the great mysteries to me. I've read some pretty good explainations in the fields of sociolgy and psychology. I suspect hate comes in different kinds and shapes in different cultures and religions.

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netrox

Well, the brain works in weird ways. You can have amnesia - forgetting even people you knew all your life - yet you still remember your language. Sexuality is probably the same as well.

Berry

What were we talking about?

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deafskeptic

I grew up Southern Baptist. My parent's church and minister in Richmond was at odds with the fundamentalist faction of our religion.

Even Baptists of the same religion (ie. Southern Baptist) may differ on how they worship or dress depending on which Baptist church they go to or how they relate to other Christians among other things.

Billy Graham (famous Southern Baptist), for example, believes in infant baptism. My church didn't do that. They would baptize folks who believed in Christ and I remember attending my little sister's baptism when she was 13 or 14.

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Reba

That is strange indeed. The Baptist distinctive is that they don't accept infant baptism. Believers' baptism only is accepted.

TXgolfer

Rock badgers?

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Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

Berry

Most Christian churches. Christianity is a religion. Christianity is also pyramidical, that is God is at the pinnacle, the various tiers of angels beneath, then humanity, then animals, then plants, then the rest of the universe. Christians, Muslims, and Jews are the three main branches of the same religion.

In Hinduism animals play an entirely different role. In fact the soul that is embodied in an animal today may once have been embodied in a human and may be again. The animal may actually be superior and further in its spiritual development than the person.

In some Native American Tribes gods are not "worshipped" they are simply more powerful beings and no better nor worse than a person or a cat or a dog -- Just different. In some Tribes animals are simply our brothers and sisters in this life.

Religions differ more than sects within a religion, but it would seem to me people fight more fiercely over tiny differences than major differences.

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Reba

Mutual compassion, animals and humans.

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Berry

I grant it does have that "urban legend sound" to it, but I looked around and could not find one on the net like it. If it were an urban legend it would be "out there" somewhere.

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Daredevel7

I find it somewhat amusing that it sounds too much of an urban legend, as if it would never happen in real life. Another question for everyone: Do you honestly believe that this would never happen and why?

I was shocked when the girl told me, but I was more shocked (in a disgusted way) by the mother's actions, but I wasn't that shocked that it happened at all.

To be frank, I know quite a few people who have the capability do that. However, that opportunity is somewhat rare and must have the right set of circumstances. Gay person who got amnesia who ALSO happens to have a homophobic mother. (Father is not in the picture, he left the family when son was young)

Reba

It was the style of writing that was similar to urban legend emails.

I wonder why the mother trusted that particular girl to play the role since she seems to be a blabbermouth who can't be trusted to keep a confidence. Why did the girl spread the story after? Was that beneficial to the son's recovery from the accident?

True. The combination of circumstances like that are rare, I would think.

StSapphire

Uh... what claims, exactly? That hate and intolerance typically stems from fear of the different/unknown? Or that church doctrines of intolerance stemmed from personal intolerance, rather than the other way around? I don't have any peer-reviewed research at-hand, no. That doesn't make it the same as being "merely faith" though - it's an idea I've heard (a number of times before) that seems reasonable, hasn't been contradicted by any evidence I've seen, and is a simple (rather than complex) explanation. If I come across any evidence which would contradict that or find an explanation that equally explains it with (computationally) simpler terms, then I'd accept that instead.

Most of the materials on the subject I've read indicated that hate in whatever form most often stems from fear of the unknown or fear of what's different. Racism, sexism, homophobia, all could be explained by this.

This actually seems like the most reasonable response to this here. I'd be curious whether he remembered any other preferences, such as whether he liked pizza or pop or anything similar, or if other similar preferences stayed the same as well.

Dudes gettin' it on with other dudes, and chicks gettin' it on with other chicks. Aww, yeah...

ROCK LOBSTER!

Daredevel7

Hahaha, not sure if I should take that as a compliment? I'm not a very good writer. Never been good at English.

To be frank, if the mother is dumb enough to try to trick his son about his sexuality, I think she's dumb enough to pick whatever girl to play a part in her ploy. All the girl was supposed to do was introduce herself as his old girlfriend ('but we are just good friends now'). The mother originally wanted her to be the current girlfriend but the girl was like "Um.. NO cuz what if we kiss or something and we have to break up eventually!" Obviously the mother didn't think it through. The mother wouldn't even KNOW that he would get amnesia until he woke up. Not much time for "planning".

And remember, this was right after high school. Even at 18 years old, kids are still not that mature.... (PS, now you see one of the reasons why I don't like her and refuse to call her my friend.)

It wasn't only the girl who spread the story after. The gay guy also talked about it when he regained his memory. He was PISSED....

StSapphire

As reba said, it's mostly that the wording sounded akin to that, is all. And, more importantly, it's on the internet. A base level of skepticism of fantastical-sounding stories is usually warranted, lol.

It certainly sounds unlikely, but crazy people do crazy things all the time, so I definitely wouldn't say "never".

For the mom - bad judgement? And I'm sure the girl spread the story because she was a teenager and thought it'd get attention for her, which I'm sure it did. I doubt she cared as much about his recovery as she did about her own popularity and level of attention received. Teenagers are stupid that way, lol.