Reba

Deafness

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jillio

I believe you, Daredevil, having seem some parents' reactions when their children turn out to be even slightly different than what fantasy the parent has created in their head.

jillio

You are correct in your percentage across species.

jillio

Okay, hypothetical situation. Is that a reaction that could be expected. Most definately. Parents have tried to talk their children out of it, manipulate them out of it, threaten them out of it, and pray them out of it. Those are not hypothetical situations.

jillio

We are permitted to discuss spirituality. We are not permitted to discuss religion. There is a huge difference between the two.

jillio

Same thing could be said of the brain.

sheila022

well, daredevel, looks like it's inherent

and this whole debate over homosexuality and civil rights is stupid and no-brainer. Isn't there a saying that men were created in God's image or that we all are God's children?

And I don't see how gays can destroy the institute of marriage...rather, it seems to reinforce it especially when they want to adopt children and give them a loving home (and have lower divorce rate than the heterosexual couples'!). There's way too many orphaned children out in the world who needs a family, and gay couples certainly can provide that. So I say grant full rights to those couples but the Congress is getting stupid and stupider. Who the **** the idiots voted Republicans into the House of Rep?!?!

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shushugah

I'm not sure how Gays destroy institutional marriage, since they don't go on active converting conquests unlike certain "marriage based religions". Nor would anyone want to become gay because of any benefits, since there are non. Financially and more importantly, socially there are fewer benefits to being gay.

shushugah

Semitic simply refers to the offsprings of Isaac and Ishamel, so arabs of the same region are also semitic. It has nothing to do with religion really, since the arabs before Islam there were still semitic. Of course nowadays we use it to generally explicate jews and such, for example "anti-semitism" has little ambiguity.




Regarding gays, most are natural gays, but there may be cases of people who are not sure if they're gay or not, but that more applies to bisexuals, who don't deny their preference for women, but at same time question their preference for guys.

Reba

The original man and woman were created in God's image. Everyone else was born to fallible humans.

No, people aren't God's children until they are spiritually born again into His family.

Daredevel7

As an attempt to steer this away from being a religious thread, I shall ask a more simple question.

If a gay person had his memory completely wiped out, but he still considers himself gay, does this mean it's evidence that homosexuality is not something that can be caused by experiences/memories? It must be something that is innate?

Thanks to Jillio and others who have already answered the question. I wonder if someone believes that it still would not prove it is innate, I'd love for you to explain to me why not.

Also, let's assume that homosexuality IS wrong (for moral reasons, religious reasons, or whatever reasons). If homosexuality is something innate, does this mean he was born this way to be "tested"? To see if he would act on his feelings?

Edit: Just realized that my 2nd question is SOMEWHAT religious anyway.. sigh.. so much for not trying to be a religious thread! Hopefully, we can just treat it like a hypothetical question?

Reba

It happens.

jillio

Not really a religiously based question. More of a moral one. And one can be moral without religion.

dogmom

"...one can be moral without religion."

LIKE!

Daredevel7

Tell me about it!! I've had people ask me "How do you know what's right or wrong without God?"

I look at them and..... worry a lot.

If you need someone to tell you that murder is wrong, you got problems!!!!!

Not that I'm bashing religion or anything. In fact, I'm sure having faith helped out my mom a lot through her tough times, but I DO find it weird that, for a few people, the ONLY reason why they are not doing immoral things is because someone simply told them not to. Shouldn't it come from within?

Reba

It should but regrettably it doesn't. That's evidenced by how so many bad things happen in this world. Man's conscience has become twisted, and in some cases, almost non-existent, so it's not dependable.

If we could all trust an innate sense of right and wrong to guide us, would there be so much evil happening in the world?

Daredevel7

Well, I thought about that. There ARE evil people around us, but see.... I find it extremely disturbing if the person next to me in church is a ready made serial killer but the only reason why he doesn't kill is because God may punish him. (No need to correct me on what God does or doesn't from your beliefs, just saying that a person may live in fear of God because he believes that He could punish him).

Dont you?

Reba

Maybe you don't like the reason but aren't you glad that he isn't killing?

Reba

What would you rather depend on? His fear of law enforcement? That's kinda shaky, too.

No, I don't find that extremely disturbing.

Daredevel7

Believe it or not, a lot of church go-ers/religious people eventually succumb to their sins. It usually is manifested in sexual affairs or stealing for NORMAL people.... I wouldn't want that evil guy to succumb!!!!!

I'd rather for that guy to be psychologically assessed to find out why, or in jail/sentenced harshly if there was no hope for him.

Okay, I'm derailing my own thread...

FAIL.

Reba

Lots of people, church-going or not, can succumb to their sins. Some people don't even think what they do is wrong. A conscience is no protection for society.

Just because he's in church doesn't mean he can't be psychologically assessed or jailed.

Daredevel7

You are absolutely correct. Even those who think they are doing 100% good may not be doing the right thing.

Right, just meant that I wouldn't rely on religion/church ONLY to prevent him from doing harm.

Reba

No one is 100% good. That's what the Bible tries to explain to people. We can't depend on just our feelings of what is right and wrong because feelings (including conscience) can be wrong. Some people don't even have concepts of actions being "right" or "wrong," or "good" or "bad."

That's because man's tendency, on his own, is to make the wrong choices. Church is a place where people can get guidance and support from God's Word and from mature believers but it is still ultimately up to the individual to surrender his will to do wrong, to God's will to do right. It's a constant struggle, to be sure.

StSapphire

Nope, any form of legalism is a shaky, at best, form of morality. I'd rather he have been raised in an environment that promoted actual compassion and moral responsibility, so that he would understand why something is right or wrong and not need the carrot and stick to do the right thing.

I do.

The solution to this isn't to give up and say that morality cannot come from within/cannot be known, though. It means we should simply work on the problem of morality systematically.

Depending on the religion/church, that'd occasionally make me more concerned, rather than less.

Reba

That's why I don't follow legalism, nor do I belong to a legalistic church.

Christian families who follow the Bible's teaching also provide environments that promote actual compassion and moral responsibility so that their children understand why something is right or wrong.

What do you consider to be a carrot and stick approach to teaching the right thing?


That's what Christians do. We just use a different system.

Me, too. But I don't want to slam other specific churches or religions here. I'm just explaining my viewpoint, beliefs, and experiences.

Daredevel7

Most religions do not specifically teach us to show compassion to animals (esp dogs and cats) and yet... most of us show compassion to animals. Evidence that it can come from within?

Daredevel7

Are you implying that Christians are high context thinkers?

StSapphire

That's good.

Carrot/stick is the simplistic "do this right thing because you'll be rewarded (with money, or friends, or heaven), and don't do this wrong thing because you'll be punished (with jail, or societal disapproval, or hell)." In an expanded context, it's just an even more simplistic form of legalism, where the rationale for the carrot/stick divisions are simply "Because the government says so" or "Because the leader of the group said so", etc.

There's no way to build an actual moral system from that framework, because it's too limited. If you encounter a situation where the government or leader hasn't decreed a "correct" way to behave, then people revert to... nothing, if they've not been raised to understand the rationale for the rules.

Ditto.

StSapphire

Evidence of the mind projection fallacy, more likely. We see other animals and anthropomorphize them, giving them human-qualities and in turn treating them as subcategories of humanity.

Oh god, not this again... lol

Reba

I'm making no implications of anything.