yizuman

Source: Ken Blackwell: A Fatwa on Liam Neeson?

Yiz

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yizuman

Here's the thing, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, it already has overtaken the Christian/Catholic population. If this keeps up in say in the next 100 years or so, the entire world will be entirely Muslim. It already has taken more than a foothold in European countries.

How many of you would like the idea of praying 5 times a day, have your women wear burkas (covering from head to toe)? Watch homosexuals being executed (UN General Assembly Votes To Allow Gays To Be Executed Without Cause | The New Civil Rights Movement

Live in constant fear under the Sharia law whereas just about anything can get you executed if you're not careful? You won't be allowed to change religion when converted, etc.

Slowly, already two Muslims in the House of Congress have already been elected in office here in the States (None in Senate....yet!).

Keith Ellison got elected to the US House of Representatives as the first Muslim. Keith Ellison was a Democratic state senator from Minnesota and was elected from the fifth congressional district.

American Muslim community is elated at the election of another Muslim to the US Congress. On March 11, Indiana voters elected Andre Carson to the Congress. He became the second Muslim chosen to in the U.S. history.

There's already elected officials in Britain that are Muslim.

My Pastor had a visitor from Afghanistan that runs underground churches there, who told us that the Muslims already has a 100 year plan in motion to convert the United States into a Muslim country and the only way to do it is to move to America, have LOTS of babies, populate their people all over the country and eventually get them all elected into offices across the board. Then the takeover will then be complete once they start passing bills with Islamic Laws in place. (I'll prolly be dead and long gone before that happens)

Are we ready for this or should we resist them?

Yiz

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Oceanbreeze

This thread could very easily take us down a religious discussion, which, isn't allowed here in AD.

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Beowulf

You mean make war on them? We already are. Sighhhh...

yizuman

War against Islam? No, that's not the theme. War against terrorism? Yes, that's what is it currently about at this point. But war against Islam in the future? Maybe, one can't say for sure.

Yiz

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Beowulf

Oh please.

jillio

Too ridiculas to even warrant a reply. Especially the labeling as someone as "left" simply because they have tolerance for different belief systems. I'm gonna stop now before I say something insulting.

souggy

So tempted to pull examples from the Balkans, Africa and Central America to show Islam isn't the only "barbaric" religion with insanely religious laws that won't see the light of day in the United States.

Instead of attacking the religion as a whole, maybe analyze the regions? And find out why certain sects and groups behave in such a way?

Islam in Canada is not even remotely the same as Islam in the violate Middle East. Islam in surrounding Central Asian countries such as Kazakhstan are not the same as Iran, Chechnya and Afghanistan... all one has to do is speak to the Islamic Persian and Afghan refugees who fled the prosecuting government in their homelands and seeked asylum within Canadian and American borders.

If you have to fear Islamic fundamentalism, then you must fear Christian fundamentalism as well. Why? They have the same root causes, just different regions. European Muslims embraced Islamic fundamentalism often in poverty, just like how improvised Americans and Canadians embraced Christian fundamentalism. Extreme situations tend to call for radical interpretations.

See the type of religion isn't the danger here, the danger lies in the unstable environment people live in such as war zones or poverty zones.

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Reba

What are "the same root causes" of Islamic fundamentalism and Christian fundamentalism?

What are "improvised Americans and Canadians?"

TWA

X2 What a complete load of garbage. Completely fabricated argument from top to bottom.

souggy

Wirelessly posted

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=ms-rim&channel=browser&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=american+christian+fundamentalism+poverty+corr elation+pdf&btnG=Search



We covered this in "Religions of the World" and in "Withcraft and the Occult" in university. Standard stuff in lectures and in textbooks to understand why certain movements are appealing to people. Fundamentalism in the South and Western Canada gained its initial appeal and base among those who lived under the poverty line. No different from Muslims who live under the poverty line in Europe turning to more literal interpretations of the texts. You see similar movements in poor countries as well, Christians and Muslims alike.

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"It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

Reba

Thanks for the link but it doesn't answer my question. It's just a list of random pdf's.

It doesn't answer the question I asked about your original statement, "If you have to fear Islamic fundamentalism, then you must fear Christian fundamentalism as well. Why? They have the same root causes, just different regions."

What same root causes do the two religions have that should cause us to fear them equally? Are you talking about the roots of those religions from centuries ago, or for current followers? What things about those "roots" are fearsome?

You must have some reason for making that statement other than a search engine list.


Religions start out with sets of fundamental beliefs. As time goes by, groups deviate from the fundamentals. Fundamentalist Christians are those who have stuck with the fundamentals of the faith since the beginning, almost 2,000 years ago. We've always turned to the literal interpretations of the texts. It's denominations who have added and subtracted from the original texts and doctrines who have either moved away from the fundamentals of their faith, or created new beliefs.

I can't speak for the followers of Islam. Maybe you can ask some of those strict, wealthy Saudis about their fundamental beliefs.

jillio

I think he meant "impoverished".

Reba

Most likely.

jillio

Sociologically, SES is a big factor in fundamentalism. When one is living in poverty and has no opportunity to change their situation, they have to find a way to justify that and give their existence some sort of meaning and their person some sort of value. That is often accomplished through fundamental belief systems. Anything lacking in their existence is not their fault, the their destiny determined by their god's will. They have been chosen for this difficult life, and therefore, their situation not only becomes good, but desirable. Because these beliefs are the only thing that justifies their existence, they become fanatical about their belief system being the only true and good belief system. Anyone who believes differently is a threat to the justification they use to define their existence. And they defend it to the degree that it often creates violence. Violence that is justfied by the fact that they are acting out their god's will.

Reba

Those "fundamentals" certainly don't fit Christian beliefs.

Banjo

That's not really the point. They represented themselves as followers of Christianity, Islam or Judaism while their actions contradicted the belief and faith system.

They don't have to be Christian, but they can claim to be so. That's the whole point.

Reba

Not according to some other posters.

That's why I want to set the record straight.

Also, I don't agree with the philosophy that SES makes the world go around but that's another thread for another day.

Banjo

What is SES?

Reba

Socioeconomic status

jillio

Of course they don't. But they use the Bible as their guiding light and call themselves Christian.

Just like the fundamentalists in Islam don't fit Islamic beliefs, but use the Quran as their guiding light and call themselves Muslim.

jillio

Perhaps you don't agree with it, but it has been shown, again and again and agian, crossculturally, that poverty affects belief systems and actions.

Banjo

Thanks.

Well, there is a link between the status of a community and the economy. The economy itself does influence the outcome of a community.

While crime occurs in all classes of communities, but people should be aware that poverty does contributes to the crime rate. For instance, many store robberies are committed by people who are below the poverty line. People get mugged on a daily basis in areas where everything is rundown and below the poverty line. Desperate times call for desperate measures. This is where people start taking advantage of them. They know these people are desperate to do anything to have a better life. So it's remarkably easy to convert people over to a faith-based system that was heavily modified for sinister purposes.

Have you ever noticed how if they fill a neighbourhood with affordable housing, the crime rate goes up? If a neighbourhood varied in economic statuses, you will find that the crime rate is low. There is nothing wrong with affordable housing as long they limit it to a few per neighourhood rather than dozens and dozens. People with previous records and involved with selling drugs have a tendency to move in areas with nothing but affordable housing due to the low costs. This is something not many people want to hear, but it's the truth.

It's not ideal to have a neighbourhood with nothing but below the poverty households. It will contribute to a higher crime rate compared to the other neighourhoods. Poverty does a lot of harm to the people involved rendering them vulnerable and susceptible to evil.

Reba

It has some influence but it's not the main influence. If it were, then all poor people would be criminals, and all wealthy people would be benevolent angels. We know that's not true.

Banjo

We all know that.

However, poverty does play a role in increasing the crime rate. If you were to read some studies and such. You will see that in the past, where poverty was rampant, the crime was too. Children of parents who were stricken by poverty resorted to stealing, mugging, breaking into and more because they were hungry and penniless.

jillio

Lower SES is not the only factor involved in criminal behavior, either. For that to be true, we would have to say that anyone who lives in poverty has the exact same environmental influence, the exact same personality profile, and the exact same genetic make-up.

Reba

But not all poor people do that, even when they are in the same or even worse dire situations.

Also, crime by well-to-do people is increasing.

Poverty is not the main factor for increasing crime. It might influence the mode and location of crime but it doesn't create criminals.

Many crimes, especially of violence and cruelty, have nothing to do with poverty.

But, as I posted, that should be stuff for a new thread.

BTW, just because I don't agree with "studies and such" doesn't mean that I'm not aware of them.

jillio

Not all people do anything. Actually, SES is a main factor in criminal behavior. It is the single most consistent environmental influence found.

Banjo

Did I say that? No. Only that it contributes to it. I was below poverty at one point in my life and I never committed a crime. However, I grew up in a decent and nice neighbourhood that was not rampant with poverty.

But do they rob 7-11 stores? Mug people? The crimes by well-to-do people are often more sophisticated. For instance, defrauding clients. The people stricken by poverty resort to petty theft, robberies and more which doesn't reward them anything but a prison sentence.

It does make a difference, whether people want to believe it or not.

jillio

And white collar crime actually does much more harm than blue collar crime because of the vast number of people one act affects. And you can bet your bippy that higher SES makes their prison sentence much shorter.