What has Obama done so far? - Page 5

jillio · 11-17-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Sad to say, socialized healthcare will not going give you whatever you want.

Txgolfer got point about situation with NHS in UK.

No he didn't. You cannot compare the health care in UK with the health care reforms the U.S. is undergoing. Too many differences in the ways the plan is administered.

But there is a great thing that Obama has done. We will now have innocent children receiving regular health care and not being neglected simply because their parents work full time but don't have an employer that offers a health care program.

**TXgolfer** · 11-17-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You know, there are ways to address this pessimism of yours. It really can't be much fun living life always searching for the negative. Not to mention spending inordinate amounts of time intentionally misinterpreting and taking things out of context.

kokonut · 11-17-2010, 05:58 PM

Boy, how ironic of a comment that was!

**TXgolfer** · 11-17-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No he didn't. You cannot compare the health care in UK with the health care reforms the U.S. is undergoing. Too many differences in the ways the plan is administered.

But there is a great thing that Obama has done. We will now have innocent children receiving regular health care and not being neglected simply because their parents work full time but don't have an employer that offers a health care program.

Oh BTW I didn't........

I took this....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sosie

Countries that have socialist health insurance for everyone (instead of just the people on Medicare and Medicaid) have much better health at lower cost. Why is that true? It is because right now, health insurance companies (like Havard Pilgrim or Blue Cross) are all trying to make as much money as possible. So are doctors. No one stops them.

and pointed out this.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - SS, welfare, medicare to be cut

which inclued this.....

Quote:

Breast cancer does claim more lives, proportionally, here than in the US. According to the 2002 Globocan database run by the World Health Organisation's cancer advisers, 19.2 of every 100,000 Americans die of the disease, but 24.3 per 100,000 here die. On prostate cancer, a Lancet Oncology global study last year found that 91.9% of Americans with the disease were still alive after five years compared to just 51.1% in the UK. With heart attacks, 40% of Britons who suffer one die from it compared to 38% in the States – nowhere near the difference

and this...

Quote:

If anything the gap is wider than Myrick says. Breakthrough Breast Cancer cite two recent studies from Lancet Oncology. One says that 83.9% of women in the US diagnosed with breast cancer between 1990-94 lived for at least five years compared to 69.7% in the UK – a 14.2% difference. The second showed that, among women diagnosed with the disease in 2000-02, 90.1% in the States survived for at least five years whereas in England it was 77.8% – a 12.3% gap.

among other stuff.

kokonut · 11-17-2010, 07:24 PM

Interesting, TXgolfer. Guess how Medicare will get gutted?
Peter Ferrara and Larry Hunter: How ObamaCare Guts Medicare - WSJ.com

Quote:

Altogether, ObamaCare cuts $818 billion from Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) from 2014-2023, the first 10 years of its full implementation, and $3.2 trillion over the first 20 years, 2014-2033. Adding in ObamaCare cuts for Medicare Part B (physicians fees and other services) brings the total cut to $1.05 trillion over the first 10 years and $4.95 trillion over the first 20 years.

These draconian cuts in Medicare payments to doctors, hospitals and other health-care providers that serve America's seniors were the basis for the Congressional Budget Office's official "score"—repeatedly cited by the president—that the health-reform legislation would actually reduce the federal deficit. But Mr. Obama never disclosed how that deficit reduction would actually be achieved.

There will be additional cuts under ObamaCare to Medicare Advantage, the private option to Medicare that close to one-fourth of all seniors have chosen for their coverage under the program because it gives them a better deal. Mr. Foster estimates that 50% of all seniors with Medicare Advantage will lose their plan because of these cuts. Mr. Obama's pledge that "If you like your health plan, you will be able to keep it" clearly does not apply to America's seniors.

Moreover, there will be additional cuts to Medicare adopted by bureaucrats at the Medicare Independent Payment Advisory Board. ObamaCare empowers this board to close Medicare financing gaps by adopting further Medicare cuts that would become effective without any congressional action. Mr. Foster reports that "The Secretary of HHS is required to implement the Board's recommendations unless the statutory process is overridden by new legislation."

The drastic reductions in Medicare reimbursements under ObamaCare will create havoc and chaos in health care for seniors. Many doctors, surgeons and specialists providing critical care to the elderly—such as surgery for hip and knee replacements, sophisticated diagnostics through MRIs and CT scans, and even treatment for cancer and heart disease—will cease serving Medicare patients. If the government is not going to pay, then seniors are not going to get the health services, treatment and care they expect.

Review & Outlook: Richard Foster for President: Medicare's Chief Actuary on ObamaCare Facts - WSJ.com

I guess you really have to read the fine print in Obamacare and see how it won't be long til Medicare is rejected on a regular basis.

**Foxrac** · 11-18-2010, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No he didn't. You cannot compare the health care in UK with the health care reforms the U.S. is undergoing. Too many differences in the ways the plan is administered.

But there is a great thing that Obama has done. We will now have innocent children receiving regular health care and not being neglected simply because their parents work full time but don't have an employer that offers a health care program.

I'm not talking about compare on between UK NHS and health care reform that passed by democrats.

The NHS in UK is socialized healthcare since healthcare reform under Obama is free market with regulation.

jillio · 11-18-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

I'm not talking about compare on between UK NHS and health care reform that passed by democrats.

The NHS in UK is socialized healthcare since healthcare reform under Obama is free market with regulation.

You are correct. That is why no one can say, "Look at the health care in the UK as a reason for not approving health care reform in the states. Yet, people do it constantly.

jillio · 11-18-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Interesting, TXgolfer. Guess how Medicare will get gutted?
Peter Ferrara and Larry Hunter: How ObamaCare Guts Medicare - WSJ.com

Review & Outlook: Richard Foster for President: Medicare's Chief Actuary on ObamaCare Facts - WSJ.com

I guess you really have to read the fine print in Obamacare and see how it won't be long til Medicare is rejected on a regular basis.

I have read the entire document as well as each and every one of the revisions. As a matter of fact, I provided another member with the exact copy of the sections that were pertinent to be posted here when refuting the ridiculous claims that Kokonut was making last winter. You might try reading the entire document yourself.

craigm26 · 11-20-2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You know, there are ways to address this pessimism of yours. It really can't be much fun living life always searching for the negative. Not to mention spending inordinate amounts of time intentionally misinterpreting and taking things out of context.

Yes, pessimism is a terrible style to engage in 24/7. Politicos or Gov't officials might refer this as the "Burden of Truth". Let me explain.

Moaning and bit***** about other people's world-views and not listening or understanding their points (you don't have to completely accept what they're saying) but don't completely reject them. There is truth (and lies) in everything that people people say or do.

TxGolfer isn't anywhere to close to being pessimistic when backing up his arguments. What you're talking about could construed as pessimism, but it really isn't. Yes, when someone on the opposite side of the political/social/economic spectrum of whatever direction starts to get into the background "facts" (we're not in court, so there's little thing called trust.. add some knowledge) and adjusts your world-view, you may feel like it's pessimism, but it's not. It's called change. Good businesses and states survive because the people that are part of it ADAPT. Even if you don't agree with someone, you *should* be "civil" and listen. You don't have to, but it's in your interest to build respect for other people so that when you get on your soapbox, people won't run away. I may not agree with TxGolfer on every issue, but I respect his ability to put in the time to explain his logic. Hopefully, he sees the same thing in myself. Even if he calls me out on it, I respect that.

All I'm really interested in is truth (which, hopefully allows for peace...six billion people on the planet...) and I think the best way to engage in it is by civilizing "pessimistic" pieces of society. We would have infinite resources and zero labor costs if we were to believe that everything in society shouldn't have any bits of pessimism. I believe other people on this board would agree that when an argument presents itself and people might challenge it, it should all be done without personal attacks of character. For many, arguing (however pessimistic the issue may be) represents a chance to hear different points of view on a issue, which in turn is actually a really good thing. Believe that people here are listening because they do want to understand the problems that people run into and make those lives better.

Point I'm trying to make is....share your bubble. There's not enough space for 6 billion egotistic bubbles on this planet.

kokonut · 11-20-2010, 01:04 PM

Right. And pointing out the facts is what I do by providing the links to show where my arguments are coming from such as using Medicare's Chief Actuary on facts by pointing out the shortcoming's of Obamacare. What I've provided came from the horse's mouth, the Medicare's Chief Actuary! Whether you ignore it or take it to heart the message, it's really up to each person to decide on how to use that information.

iSign · 11-20-2010, 05:49 PM

Wirelessly posted

Because of Obama I won't be taken out of my dad's medical plan until I'm 26 which makes me glad cause if I had been taken out now I wouldn't be able to afford the ointments for my skin conditions or breathing therapies for my asthma

Besides a nation's problems can't be solved in four years and how we all want. I trust in his decisions.

**shel90** · 11-20-2010, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdaigle430

Really? I though it was a joke

Sure he has done these things but at a very high cost. Kinda of llike going into battle with 10,000 soldiers and winning even though only 2 came back alive.

These so called successes have cost us dearly in tax money and cost to the working class people.

And Bush is any better?

**deafskeptic** · 11-21-2010, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

And Bush is any better?

Good question.

**TXgolfer** · 11-21-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigm26

Yes, pessimism is a terrible style to engage in 24/7. Politicos or Gov't officials might refer this as the "Burden of Truth". Let me explain.

Moaning and bit***** about other people's world-views and not listening or understanding their points (you don't have to completely accept what they're saying) but don't completely reject them. There is truth (and lies) in everything that people people say or do.

TxGolfer isn't anywhere to close to being pessimistic when backing up his arguments. What you're talking about could construed as pessimism, but it really isn't. Yes, when someone on the opposite side of the political/social/economic spectrum of whatever direction starts to get into the background "facts" (we're not in court, so there's little thing called trust.. add some knowledge) and adjusts your world-view, you may feel like it's pessimism, but it's not. It's called change. Good businesses and states survive because the people that are part of it ADAPT. Even if you don't agree with someone, you *should* be "civil" and listen. You don't have to, but it's in your interest to build respect for other people so that when you get on your soapbox, people won't run away. I may not agree with TxGolfer on every issue, but I respect his ability to put in the time to explain his logic. Hopefully, he sees the same thing in myself. Even if he calls me out on it, I respect that.

All I'm really interested in is truth (which, hopefully allows for peace...six billion people on the planet...) and I think the best way to engage in it is by civilizing "pessimistic" pieces of society. We would have infinite resources and zero labor costs if we were to believe that everything in society shouldn't have any bits of pessimism. I believe other people on this board would agree that when an argument presents itself and people might challenge it, it should all be done without personal attacks of character. For many, arguing (however pessimistic the issue may be) represents a chance to hear different points of view on a issue, which in turn is actually a really good thing. Believe that people here are listening because they do want to understand the problems that people run into and make those lives better.

Point I'm trying to make is....share your bubble. There's not enough space for 6 billion egotistic bubbles on this planet.

**TXgolfer** · 11-21-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

And Bush is any better?

I didn't realize Bush was still in office.

BTW, it is posssible to disagree with the policies of both obama and Bush

kokonut · 11-21-2010, 12:48 PM

Yes.

jillio · 11-22-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Right. And pointing out the facts is what I do by providing the links to show where my arguments are coming from such as using Medicare's Chief Actuary on facts by pointing out the shortcoming's of Obamacare. What I've provided came from the horse's mouth, the Medicare's Chief Actuary! Whether you ignore it or take it to heart the message, it's really up to each person to decide on how to use that information.

You are the one that was proven wrong with exact excerpts from the actual document. Remember?

**Beowulf** · 11-22-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You are the one that was proven wrong with exact excerpts from the actual document. Remember?

Yup. And "straight from the horse's mouth?" A horse is something that farts from both ends.

kokonut · 11-22-2010, 02:21 PM

*shrugs*

Mohave · 03-29-2012, 01:14 AM

Raised out deficit, just like any other useless president. I think it would send a better message if we all registered to vote, but did not, that would send a message that we need better candidates. I saw a funny bumper sticker the other day, "Politicians and diapers, need to be replaced, for the same reason!!

11-17-2010, 05:58 PM	#123 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Boy, how ironic of a comment that was! __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-20-2010, 01:04 PM	#130 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Right. And pointing out the facts is what I do by providing the links to show where my arguments are coming from such as using Medicare's Chief Actuary on facts by pointing out the shortcoming's of Obamacare. What I've provided came from the horse's mouth, the Medicare's Chief Actuary! Whether you ignore it or take it to heart the message, it's really up to each person to decide on how to use that information. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-21-2010, 12:48 PM	#136 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Yes. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-22-2010, 02:21 PM	#139 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	shrugs __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

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11-20-2010, 05:49 PM	#131 (permalink)
iSign Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 617 Blog Entries: 16	Wirelessly posted Because of Obama I won't be taken out of my dad's medical plan until I'm 26 which makes me glad cause if I had been taken out now I wouldn't be able to afford the ointments for my skin conditions or breathing therapies for my asthma Besides a nation's problems can't be solved in four years and how we all want. I trust in his decisions.

03-29-2012, 01:14 AM	#140 (permalink)
Mohave Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 43	Raised out deficit, just like any other useless president. I think it would send a better message if we all registered to vote, but did not, that would send a message that we need better candidates. I saw a funny bumper sticker the other day, "Politicians and diapers, need to be replaced, for the same reason!!