EDGE

I think there is Muslimstard group who actual a Terrorists. :)

Deafness

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MorriganTait

Ok - let me ask you one thing.

Do you believe that the god that spoke to Abraham and prevented him from killing Isaac is GOD, as described in Genesis 22?

ayala920

I hope you're using that as an example of the different beliefs Christians and Jews have. Jews not believing in Jesus as the Messiah is just one thing that is different.

And let's not get into messianic jews here. You won't meet a Jewish person who will tell you they consider messianic jews (or jews for jesus, which is different) to be "real" Jews.

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~Ayala~


"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

web730

What?! You should know that I do believe in God as it's written in the Bible (KJV) .. yeah!

Well, it's preferrable to ask yourself as if you believe God of Issac, do you??

Teresh

Saying "you're wrong" is not an argument. Try making one. Otherwise, go get educated, as you clearly have no idea how to debate.

Cite, cite, cite!

Nothing that is religious can be considered fact because it's based in religion, which is an inherently non-scientific discipline. The fact that you fail to understand this simple aspect calls into question how intelligent you really are.

Messianic Jews are not Jews, they're Christians. You'll have a lot of difficulty finding a Jew who thinks Messianic Jews are legitimate Jews since they have completely denied their religious and ethnic roots. I'd be inclined to believe that both of those things together constitutes rejection of being a Jew according to Halakha. I'm not Jewish, so that is just academic conjecture, but I think it's a fair assumption. If a Jew is reading this, feel free to correct me as necessary.

You're helping us out by saying things that are false and hoping we believe? Sorry, but I don't see how that constitutes "help".

Real evidence, please? Muslims certainly think they worship the same God as the Christians and Jews, and all educated Jews and Christians agree.

I'm not sure how to answer this. Having sat through twelve years in Catholic schooling, being educated in that system, dogma and all, going to Catholic masses every week (in high school, once or twice a month), having religion study every day of the week (besides weekends) for 12 years, I'm inclined to believe that I have a pretty good understanding of Christianity at large.

I highly doubt you've spent more time learning about religion than I have, but maybe you have. Have you spent hours, every day, for twelve years, learning about religion? I doubt it. You write like a highschool freshman, and I don't mean that as a critique of your degree of literacy. You're posting is immature and uneducated, which is a better indicator of your age than your writing style. Given that, I highly doubt you have more knowledge of the subject than I do.

How old are you? How many hours of education on Christianity can you claim to have sat through? What grade are you in, if you are still in the educational process? What degrees have you earned, and at what universities?

MorriganTait

It was a simple yes or no question, but I accept that as a YES from you.

So, may I ask then: If a religion worships the God of Isaac, that's the same God YOU believe in, correct?

ayala920

I believe that a large number (perhaps all?)of messianic jews are actually people who were Jewish and later came to believe Jesus was the messiah, but didn't want to give up their Jewish identity. Then you have the Jews for Jesus, which are just Christians who use fancy "Jewish terminology" in an attempt to appeal to Jews and concert them. With the former, I suppose according to Halacha, that they are still Jews, since technically anyone with a Jewish mother is a Jew, even if they reject their religion. However, you'd be hard-pressed to find a Jew who thinks that MJs or J4J are legit Jews.

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~Ayala~


"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

Reba

As Paul said:
Acts 22
3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Beowulf

Wow. No wonder they think they are the Chosen.
And no wonder it is practically illegal to criticize Israel today.
*scoff*

ayala920

What do you mean by that comment?

__________________
~Ayala~


"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

Beowulf

I think Reba knows.

Reba

Well, the Jews are God's chosen people. However, they, like everyone else, are sinners and need salvation.

In general, Christians support and defend modern Israel. However, that doesn't mean we can't criticize their political policies, if that's what you mean.

web730

Yes, you're right.

Which religion did you meant?

All I can say that I do believe God of Issac.

web730

Yes, that I would call them Torah jews.

How can you know if these messanic jews are not "real" jews? Do you have access with their true blood DNA identifications or something? I don't really get at it how you can say that.

MorriganTait

Ok, let's rephrase this.

You believe that God talked to Araham and that is the God you worship (aside from possible later manifestations as Jesus), and you are a Christian. Would you accept that those statements are true? Yes/No

web730

Yes.

Although, it sounds like a little bit of tricky question. So what is you actual purpose asking that question here? Testing on me?

ayala920

How is a "Torah Jew" any different from a "regular Jew"?

Actually, if you'd read the other posts I'd made, you'd see where I stated that messianic jews are Jews by birth, regardless of whether they still practice Judaism or some other religion. However, most "Torah Jews," as you call them, would not consider them to be legitimate Jews because they believe in the New Testament.

__________________
~Ayala~


"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

Rose Immortal

You forget another Biblical verse from the same author, St. Paul, who even after his conversion to Christianity did not forget his heritage:

Galatians 3:28-29

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

web730

Torah jews = jews whom believe the Old Testament alone and also they do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah that God promised them long ago .. quite numbered in Israel and elsewhere

secularistic jews = regular jews who don't believe in any religion .. they are most populated in Israel

messanic jews = jews that believe in Christ and believe both Old and New Testaments (Bible) .. smaller-popluated in Israel and elsewhere

Those is what I know of. I hope it helps.

web730

Good one, Rose Immortal

Tousi

Web730, I've been reading the last 2-3 pages here and, man, I feel for you... putting up with the pushy, smarminess, and yes, outright insults from a couple people here but if your'e learning something, and yours is an insouciant demeanor, my hat's off to you, man and hey, knock yourself out.

web730

Oh, yeah!

It's like being the fierce german shepherd dog standing against the wolves roundabout.

Beowulf

Same here, Tous. I got compassion for the turnip.
No blood to be squeezed from that, but with Web I am aware of otherwise. I am impressed with his sincerity and he will teach me as a few others think he ought to learn.
Peace.

MorriganTait

Not a trick question at all. Just trying to get a straight answer out of you.

YOU believe in the God that spoke to Abraham.

SO DO the Muslims, though it is almost a direct split from there. The Judeo/Christian line springs from the prophet Isaac at that point (younger son by Sarah) and Islam springs from Ismael (older son by Hagar). Admittedly, as Christians, we ALSO regard the diety of Christ and in Islam, they don't, and in Islam they regard the diety of other lunar figures (which I will have to find further reference to for you) which we don't recognize. In any case, while you and I worship quite differently from how most Muslim people would, they regard that same entity that spoke to Abraham as God - just like we do. It just is.

You have called some of us liars for suggesting that in Islam, the central diety is the same entity that Christians and Jews regard as God. It's not a lie. It's a fact documented for 1000's of year.

Now I don't mean to digress here, but I think that there is confusion between:

Worshipping a different god(s) (like in Hinduism) and Worshipping the SAME god differently.

Some may say, Muslims worship "wrong", Jews worship "wrong", Catholics worship "wrong", Mormons worship "wrong" - whatever - I am not trying to delve into that issue.

I am just trying to state that Muslims regard the same entity as God that we do. That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I posted references for you already, and I am sure you can do your own web search through the Qu'ran. There were more references to Ibrahim, Ismail and Ishaq than I could count.

Beowulf

Hmmm, Web, get it? I THINK she is saying God is God whether spoken to Abraham or Lincoln.
"Course I could be wrong.

MorriganTait