Are the Muslims really Terrorists? - Page 2

Reba · 07-25-2004, 12:08 AM

Not all Muslims are terrorists.

All terrorists on 9/11 were Muslims.

Two different meanings.

Tousi · 07-25-2004, 02:18 AM

Reba, and others.....this might be so but I find it strange that the Muslims have not come out publicly(that I know of)and decried the events of 9/11 and terrorists in general.......

Reba · 07-25-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Reba, and others.....this might be so but I find it strange that the Muslims have not come out publicly(that I know of)and decried the events of 9/11 and terrorists in general.......

Yes, that bothers me also.

07-25-2004, 07:40 AM

Well, I remember following 9/11 attacks, Arafat and several Arab leaders condemned the attacks. I remember seeing CNN reports interviewing Muslims being very angry about these terroristic attacks.

Reba · 07-25-2004, 01:20 PM

I also remember after 9/11, news reports that showed Muslims dancing in the streets and celebrating the attacks.

How many high-ranking representatives for Muslim groups or countries have recently condemned the kidnappings and beheadings of civilians? What about Muslim news media? Do their headlines regularly condemn terrorism? Are the Muslim clerics preaching against terrorism? Have you heard any Muslim clerics publicly announce, "If any Muslim commits terrorism thru suicide attacks or beheadings, he will NOT go to Paradise!"

07-25-2004, 04:01 PM

Obviously you have not been paying attention to the news. There were some Arabs condeming the beheadings:

Quote:

The video was released on the internet too late for Middle East newspaper columnists, but the grisly execution appalled many Arabs.

They said it surpassed the American military’s abuse of Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison, which had been the top story for the past 10 days in the Middle East.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/05/12/story147215.html

Quote:

The Lebanese political group Hizb Allah has condemned the beheading of an American hostage in Iraq as an ugly crime that flouted the tenets of Islam.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...2F15478E76.htm

Quote:

“We condemn what some people are doing regarding the beheading of prisoners and it is illegal according to Islamic law,” al-Sadr said at the Kufa mosque south of Baghdad, where he led Friday prayers for the first time in two months."

http://breaking.tcm.ie/2004/07/23/story158429.html

Quote:

After terrorists cut off the head of an American contractor in Iraq, some Muslims around the world began trying to distance themselves and their faith from the act of terrorism, including an effort in Northern California called "Not in the Name of Islam."

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/3316157/detail.html

Quote:

"Hezbollah condemns this horrible act that has done very great harm to Islam and Muslims by this group that claims affiliation to the religion of mercy, compassion and humane principles,"

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=1950

Quote:

From Riyadh to Beirut, Arab governments, newspapers and political groups joined in worldwide condemnation of the video of the young American being decapitated by a group of masked men posted on Tuesday on an Islamist website linked to the al-Qaeda terror group.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/I...526601,00.html

There are more...

Reba · 07-25-2004, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuifje75

There were some Arabs condeming the beheadings:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/05/12/story147215.html

OK, I am catching up with the news. So far, I have read your first link. The headline to this one is "Arab media condemns beheading" but the content of the story indicates otherwise.

Quote:

Arab media reacted cautiously to the beheading of an American civilian on a video issued by an associate of Osama bin Laden, with some newspapers conspicuously playing it down or even ignoring it.

The following editor only seemed to regret the fact that the beheading overshadowed the terrorists' agenda; he didn't condemn the act itself.

Quote:

Mustafa Bakri, editor of Al-Osboa weekly newspaper in Egypt, said Berg’s execution would only harm efforts to expose American offences against Iraqis.“Such revenge is rejected,” Bakri said of the execution. “We were winning international sympathy because of what happened at Abu Ghraib, but they come and waste it all,” said Abdullah Sahar, a Kuwait University political scientist, said of the Islamic militants responsible.

This is not condemnation:

Quote:

Egypt’s leading daily, Al-Ahram, ignored the beheading. Two other major pro-government newspapers ran news agency reports on their inside pages and without photographs.
Newspapers in Syria, where the government controls the press tightly, did not report the execution at all.

No Muslim government or religious leaders condemning beheadings in this link.

I will read the next one in a few minutes.

Reba · 07-25-2004, 11:41 PM

OK, I've read your second link.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exe...12F15478E76.htm
For one thing, any "spokesman" from Hizb Allah, a terrorist organization, is hardly a respectable leader of Muslims. Aljazeera network is also known as a terrorist propaganda medium.

Anyway, I will let his own words prove that they do not condemn the act of beheading civilians:

Quote:

"The timing of this act that overshadowed the scandal over the abuse of Iraqi prisoners in occupation forces prisons is suspect timing that aims to serve the American administration and occupation forces in Iraq and present excuses and pretexts for their inhumane practices against Iraqi detainees."

The influential Lebanese Islamist group, which the United States deems "terrorist", said the executors' behaviour was closer to "the Pentagon school - the school of killing and occupation and crimes and torture and immoral practices that were exposed by the great scandal in occupation prisons".

See, he is not condemning the beheadings; he is again bashing the Americans.

Reba · 07-25-2004, 11:49 PM

OK, third link.
http://breaking.tcm.ie/2004/07/23/story158429.html
I am glad to see that al-Sadr has finally seen the light.

Quote:

Firebrand Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who led an uprising against US forces, condemned militants who have beheaded foreigners in Iraq over the last several months.

Reba · 07-26-2004, 12:08 AM

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/3316157/detail.html
This one is a good sign that average American Muslims are speaking out. I am aware that there are many good common Muslim people. I just wish more of their leadership would speak up.

I tried to copy and paste the text of their petition but it didn't work. If anyone wants to read it, they can via their link:
http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp

Tousi · 07-26-2004, 12:20 AM

Thanks, Reba for showing what I've been sensing as a dearth of Muslim leadership denouncing, as a rule of religious law, as basic decency, etc, ect this kind of behavior.

Reba · 07-26-2004, 12:28 AM

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/ne...service_id=1950
Hezbollah and Aljazeera again. Not very creditable. Nonetheless, I am glad that some of the Muslim population condemn the killings:

Quote:

"This action was bad because it makes Arabs look like barbarians but that's what the Americans think anyway. My fear is that now Americans will feel Iraqis deserve the torture," Mamdouh, an Egyptian pharmacy student who did not want to give his full name, was quoted by al-Jazeera.net...

Some Arabs said Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian Washington accuses of being a leading al-Qaeda figure who is alleged to have led the decapitation, had failed the very people he said he was avenging by strengthening Washington's hand in Iraq...

"Zarqawi is an enemy of the Arab and Muslim nation because he distorted their image and portrayed Islam in an incorrect manner," Hasan Ahmad Jar Allah, 41, a Saudi government employee, who had seen the tape on the Internet, told al-Jazeera.

Al-Jazeera also quoted an unnamed Gulf analyst as saying the killing would prove counter-productive for Iraqis.

Al-Azhar scholars and Iraqi scholars – both Sunnis and Shiites – have also condemned the beheading.

That is better but I wish the countries' leaders would speak up.

Reba · 07-26-2004, 12:42 AM

Your last link.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/I...526601,00.html

Quote:

"The Abu Ghraib photos blew away America's attempts to claim the moral high ground in Iraq. The latest ones pull the rug from underneath the Iraqis and Palestinians", playing straight into the hands of US President George W Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Arab News said.

Lebanon denounced the "ignoble" beheading - but voiced suspicion at the timing of an "ugly crime" which drove the torture of Iraqi prisoners by US-led forces from the headlines.

Some Arabs suspicious of US motives have suggested the Berg video was a montage by US intelligence to draw attention away from the prison scandal.

On Wednesday, Lebanon's Shiite Muslim militant group Hezbollah also harshly criticised the beheading and questioned the timing of such a "horrible" act.

"It has a suspect timing which serves the American administration and the occupation forces in Iraq and offers them justification and pretexts for their inhuman practices against Iraqi detainees" it said.

Does that "condemnation" sound sincere to you?

Reba · 07-26-2004, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Thanks, Reba for showing what I've been sensing as a dearth of Muslim leadership denouncing, as a rule of religious law, as basic decency, etc, ect this kind of behavior.

No need to thank me; Kuifje provided all the links.

The Heretic · 07-26-2004, 07:50 PM

Haven't read the entire thread, so if i am being redundant, avert your eyes and pretend this post does not exist.

The word "terrorist" is used by American journalists to describe underground organization who opposes their government. However, the newspapers of the middle east calls them "freedom fighters." That said, the question itself carries a loaded term.

To the question: Muslims are not by definition terrorists. If it was the case that "muslims are terrorists" then what does that mean for those radical right-wing militant rednecks like Tim McVeigh? It would be impossible to generalize and link all muslims to the terrorists.

There are terrorists who are not muslims.

So the answer is false - not all muslims are terrorists, because there are terrorists who are not muslims, and there are muslims who are not terrorists.

WBHarley · 07-26-2004, 08:02 PM

Therefore I can't vote this but My bro in law said:

Not all muslims are really terroists but most of Terroists are muslims..

Wendy

Beowulf · 07-26-2004, 08:10 PM

Eh, and Muslims would say that most terrorists are Americans.
Depends on the perspective.

The Heretic · 07-27-2004, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WBHarley

Therefore I can't vote this but My bro in law said:
Not all muslims are really terroists but most of Terroists are muslims..
Wendy

Even so, those terrorists your brother refers to do not represent muslims. They are but a radical sect of a large religion.

Anyone who makes the claim that all middle-eastern terrorists are muslims must deal with the counter-claim that all the Irish Republican Army terrorists are catholics.

So what? The bad actions of IRA does not reflect on the rest of catholics. The fact that they are members of a religious group means next to nothing, because anyone can come up with the evidence of a lunatic fringe of a religious sect. Doesn't mean those looney tunes represent their religion for everyone.

Sammy · 07-28-2004, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Eh, and Muslims would say that most terrorists are Americans.
Depends on the perspective.

Yes!

And in the year 1955, "all Soviets were spies"
In the year 1966, "all Americans in Canada were draft-dodgers".

Come on. Let's use a little perspective here.

Kalista · 07-28-2004, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

No.

I saw you to wear towel head while you slept

Mod: Please delate this one.

Thanks

Kalista · 07-28-2004, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

No.

I saw you to wear towel head while you slept

Bush

Reba · 07-30-2004, 07:24 PM

Sadly, it has happened again.

Pakistani Captives Beheaded
Severed Head of Bulgarian Shown on Hosting Anime Terror Site Apparently Hosted by Texas Internet Company
July 29, 2004
In a videotape sent to Al Jazeera television, a group calling itself the Islamic Army announced that it had executed two Pakistani captives....
http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive...04-graphic.htm

Beowulf · 07-30-2004, 08:05 PM

Sighhhhhh.
Yeah, sad.

Reba · 07-31-2004, 02:23 PM

Sad story from AP, 7/30/04, Anila, Philippines:

Quote:

Pointing to a rusty dog chain, a prosecutor asked American missionary Gracia Burnham if it was used to shackle her husband before he was killed in a bloody rescue attempt after a year of captivity in the jungle. "I recognize that chain," Burnham testified softly Thursday at the trial of eight al-Qaida-linked guerrillas.

Burhham, 45, also recounted how her captors celebrated after the Sept. 11 terror attacks. "There was jubilation. They were patting each other's back," she was quoted by a prosectuor as saying...

...The trial is part of the Philippines' quest to impose justice on suspected Muslim militants from the Abu Sayyaf group accused of mass kidnappings, deadly bombings and beheadings.
http://www.charleston.net/stories/07...30philip.shtml

Muslim terrorists are a big problem in the Philippines, not just the Middle East.

Liza · 07-31-2004, 02:49 PM

I will admit that it ticks me off when religion is being used as a tool to conduct mass misinformation, fear, and terrorism. Even more when others use human-caused tragedies as a tool to discredit religions belonging to the Muslim, Jewish, or Christians, etc. You're darn right, I'm angry. I won't pretend to act indifferent anymore. This is not to start a fight or whatever-- just on the contrary!

I feel the real focus should be on foolish humans who hide behind religions AND politicial agendas to conduct terrorism and strike divisions between the hearts of humankind living in this human-populated planet. No more blathering excuses, and instead, hold those accountable for their actions. It starts with ourselves.

Now let's have ourselves a nice Alldeaf orgy, eh?

Beowulf · 07-31-2004, 06:01 PM

Bush actually said:
"we cannot let TERRIERS and rogue nations hold this nation HOSTILE or hold our allies HOSTILE."

Reba · 08-01-2004, 02:42 PM

Terrorists attack Christian civilians:

Quote:

Blasts Rock Iraqi Churches
Sunday, August 01, 2004
BAGHDAD, Iraq — Blasts rocked Baghdad and Mosul on Sunday in a coordinated terror attack on Iraq's Christian community, killing at least two people and injuring about 60 others.

It was the first time guerrillas targeted Christian houses of worship during the 15-month insurgency.

In Baghdad, mere minutes separated two of the attacks, which took place during Sunday evening services. Shortly thereafter, two more explosions hit churches in other areas of the capital. At around the same time, two blasts struck outside a church in Mosul, Iraqi officials said.

The U.S. military confirmed two other explosions in Baghdad on Sunday evening, but their targets were not immediately clear. In all, five churches were attacked....

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_frien...127689,00.html

View Poll Results: Are the Muslims really Terrorists?
Yes	20	15.15%
No	86	65.15%
Maybe	26	19.70%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

07-26-2004, 07:50 PM	#45 (permalink)
The Heretic pope of deicide Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Neither here nor there Posts: 338	sweeping generalizations are always lame Haven't read the entire thread, so if i am being redundant, avert your eyes and pretend this post does not exist. The word "terrorist" is used by American journalists to describe underground organization who opposes their government. However, the newspapers of the middle east calls them "freedom fighters." That said, the question itself carries a loaded term. To the question: Muslims are not by definition terrorists. If it was the case that "muslims are terrorists" then what does that mean for those radical right-wing militant rednecks like Tim McVeigh? It would be impossible to generalize and link all muslims to the terrorists. There are terrorists who are not muslims. So the answer is false - not all muslims are terrorists, because there are terrorists who are not muslims, and there are muslims who are not terrorists. __________________ Self-esteem is cleverer than the cleverest person in the world.

07-31-2004, 02:49 PM	#55 (permalink)
Liza Cranial protocologist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St Augustine, FL Posts: 3,886	I will admit that it ticks me off when religion is being used as a tool to conduct mass misinformation, fear, and terrorism. Even more when others use human-caused tragedies as a tool to discredit religions belonging to the Muslim, Jewish, or Christians, etc. You're darn right, I'm angry. I won't pretend to act indifferent anymore. This is not to start a fight or whatever-- just on the contrary! I feel the real focus should be on foolish humans who hide behind religions AND politicial agendas to conduct terrorism and strike divisions between the hearts of humankind living in this human-populated planet. No more blathering excuses, and instead, hold those accountable for their actions. It starts with ourselves. Now let's have ourselves a nice Alldeaf orgy, eh? __________________

07-25-2004, 12:08 AM	#31 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 16,379	Not all Muslims are terrorists. All terrorists on 9/11 were Muslims. Two different meanings.

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07-25-2004, 02:18 AM	#32 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,492	Reba, and others.....this might be so but I find it strange that the Muslims have not come out publicly(that I know of)and decried the events of 9/11 and terrorists in general.......

07-25-2004, 07:40 AM	#34 (permalink)
kuifje75 Guest Posts: n/a	Well, I remember following 9/11 attacks, Arafat and several Arab leaders condemned the attacks. I remember seeing CNN reports interviewing Muslims being very angry about these terroristic attacks.

07-25-2004, 01:20 PM	#35 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 16,379	I also remember after 9/11, news reports that showed Muslims dancing in the streets and celebrating the attacks. How many high-ranking representatives for Muslim groups or countries have recently condemned the kidnappings and beheadings of civilians? What about Muslim news media? Do their headlines regularly condemn terrorism? Are the Muslim clerics preaching against terrorism? Have you heard any Muslim clerics publicly announce, "If any Muslim commits terrorism thru suicide attacks or beheadings, he will NOT go to Paradise!"

07-26-2004, 12:08 AM	#40 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 16,379	http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/3316157/detail.html This one is a good sign that average American Muslims are speaking out. I am aware that there are many good common Muslim people. I just wish more of their leadership would speak up. I tried to copy and paste the text of their petition but it didn't work. If anyone wants to read it, they can via their link: http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp

07-26-2004, 12:20 AM	#41 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,492	Thanks, Reba for showing what I've been sensing as a dearth of Muslim leadership denouncing, as a rule of religious law, as basic decency, etc, ect this kind of behavior.

07-26-2004, 08:02 PM	#46 (permalink)
WBHarley Multitaskin' Wanderin'Mom Join Date: May 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,377	Therefore I can't vote this but My bro in law said: Not all muslims are really terroists but most of Terroists are muslims.. Wendy

07-26-2004, 08:10 PM	#47 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,072	Eh, and Muslims would say that most terrorists are Americans. Depends on the perspective.

07-30-2004, 07:24 PM	#52 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 16,379	Sadly, it has happened again. Pakistani Captives Beheaded Severed Head of Bulgarian Shown on Hosting Anime Terror Site Apparently Hosted by Texas Internet Company July 29, 2004 In a videotape sent to Al Jazeera television, a group calling itself the Islamic Army announced that it had executed two Pakistani captives.... http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive...04-graphic.htm