Social Experiment - the Muslims - Page 4

jillio · 08-03-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I thought polls were innaccurate and unreliable....

Depends on what you are attempting to use them to support. They are not generalizable to an entire population, but if they are being used to support a sub-population, the validity and reliability increase.

**Reba** · 08-03-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I would think that, as an interpreter, you would be capable of utilizing contextual meaning...no one that has participated in the poll. I'm really surprised that you are not able to utilize such a basic skill of communication.

That's it. When you don't have a reasonable reply, resort to personal attack. I got it.

jillio · 08-03-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That's it. When you don't have a reasonable reply, resort to personal attack. I got it.

Gave you a reasonable reply. You refused to grasp it. Back on topic:

I still maintain that the U.S. is one of the most intolerant societies in existence. We are seeing evidence of such concurrently.

**Reba** · 08-03-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Gave you a reasonable reply. You refused to grasp it. Back on topic:

I still maintain that the U.S. is one of the most intolerant societies in existence. We are seeing evidence of such concurrently.

Compared to what other existing societies; North Korea, Sudan, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia?

jillio · 08-03-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Compared to what other existing societies; North Korea, Sudan, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia?

Given that I stated " in existance", then yes, those would be included. But not limited to.

**Beowulf** · 08-03-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Compared to what other existing societies; North Korea, Sudan, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia?

How about American Indians in our own country? I am not trying to start an argument here, but what jillio says is plausible. A country with extremes goes both ways somehow. We have almost unlimited freedom here but also unlimited intolerance on the other end of the scale. Just saying.

jillio · 08-03-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

How about American Indians in our own country? I am not trying to start an argument here, but what jillio says is plausible. A country with extremes goes both ways somehow. We have almost unlimited freedom here but also unlimited intolerance on the other end of the scale. Just saying.

That is quite true. Add to that the fact that what we consider to be a problem of intolerance in another society is not considered intolerant by the people we see as being discriminated against. In fact, quite often, they are in agreement that what we see as discrimination is perfectly acceptable and agreed with.

Any country that practices a majority religion such as Buddhism is a society of greater tolerance than one that the majority religion is one based on value judgements. When discussing tolerance and discrimination, we can't simply look at what we think is intolerant, but must also look at what the members of that society, themselves, perceive as intolerance.

**Reba** · 08-03-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Given that I stated " in existance", then yes, those would be included. But not limited to.

So you consider the United States to be in the same category as those countries?

jillio · 08-03-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

So you consider the United States to be in the same category as those countries?

Misinterpretation. That is not what I said at all. The same category as what? Are they all countries? Yes, they are. So that means, that on that level, they all do belong to the same category.

**Reba** · 08-03-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

How about American Indians in our own country? I am not trying to start an argument here, but what jillio says is plausible. A country with extremes goes both ways somehow. We have almost unlimited freedom here but also unlimited intolerance on the other end of the scale. Just saying.

Native Americans have truly gotten a raw deal, to say the least. But would you say that means the United States overall, right now, is one of the least tolerant countries compared to all those in the world, such as Rwanda and Saudi Arabia?

How tolerant are those other countries to even this kind of criticism that we are debating here? Intolerance can't even be discussed in some other countries.

jillio · 08-03-2010, 03:53 PM

The intolerance of the U.S. is not restricted to it's own borders. It projects itself over the entire world. Much, much more widespread. In addition to that which is placed upon it's own citizens. Manifest Destiny continues in a revised edition in this country.

And, if the citizens of that society don't consider that which you label as intolerant as actual intolerance or unacceptable, then again, it is you that is being intolerant of their autonomy and right to decide what they agree with or don't agree with. That seems to be a consensus seen in the U.S. in abundance.

**Reba** · 08-03-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That is quite true. Add to that the fact that what we consider to be a problem of intolerance in another society is not considered intolerant by the people we see as being discriminated against. In fact, quite often, they are in agreement that what we see as discrimination is perfectly acceptable and agreed with.

Any country that practices a majority religion such as Buddhism is a society of greater tolerance than one that the majority religion is one based on value judgements. When discussing tolerance and discrimination, we can't simply look at what we think is intolerant, but must also look at what the members of that society, themselves, perceive as intolerance.

I guess you don't realize that people who live in Buddhist countries, such as Thailand, are not tolerated by their family and friends if they convert to another religion or don't follow Buddhist practices.

**Beowulf** · 08-03-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Native Americans have truly gotten a raw deal, to say the least. But would you say that means the United States overall, right now, is one of the least tolerant countries compared to all those in the world, such as Rwanda and Saudi Arabia?

How tolerant are those other countries to even this kind of criticism that we are debating here? Intolerance can't even be discussed in some other countries.

I suppose it is a matter of perspective, of having SEEN it. Let's face it, you and ; I are total opposites and have taken different paths in this life, so we have seen different things. I do not want to be drawn into an argument with you, Reba. You have seen things and expressed your opinions, of them, and I respect them; I have also seen things that are contrary to your belief and I hope you respect me enough not to doubt my sincerity in expressing my own opinions, though you may strongly disagree with them.

**Reba** · 08-03-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I suppose it is a matter of perspective, of having SEEN it. Let's face it, you and ; I are total opposites and have taken different paths in this life, so we have seen different things. I do not want to be drawn into an argument with you, Reba. You have seen things and expressed your opinions, of them, and I respect them; I have also seen things that are contrary to your belief and I hope you respect me enough not to doubt my sincerity in expressing my own opinions, though you may strongly disagree with them.

No, I don't want to argue. We may be closer on our viewpoints than you suspect.

I haven't lived in all the other countries but I bet there's a lot more intolerance going on in them than what's happening here, and I don't think they got their intolerant ideas from Americans (especially in those countries where intolerance has been thriving centuries before the USA was in existence).

**Reba** · 08-03-2010, 04:21 PM

In general, if America is such an intolerant country, why are more people of various ethnicity and religion trying to move in or stay here, than are trying to escape this country? How many Americans flee the USA to more tolerant countries to beg for asylum?

**Beowulf** · 08-03-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

In general, if America is such an intolerant country, why are more people of various ethnicity and religion trying to move in or stay here, than are trying to escape this country? How many Americans flee the USA to more tolerant countries to beg for asylum?

I dunno. But I DO know that if you owe taxes you cannot obtain a passport, so you cannot escape!

**TXgolfer** · 08-03-2010, 04:51 PM

If you are a hard working, law abiding illegal immigrant in Mexico they charge you with a Felony....... How tolerant! Of course I guess that is better than getting the death penalty for a DWI.....

**Daredevel7** · 08-03-2010, 04:56 PM

Isn't tolerance subjective anyway?

Look at what Jillio said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

When discussing tolerance and discrimination, we can't simply look at what we think is intolerant, but must also look at what the members of that society, themselves, perceive as intolerance.

So basically, it would have to be "America is one of the least tolerant countries BY OUR STANDARDS". Just like how another culture may think we are TOO tolerant by THEIR standards.

How do we measure tolerance anyway?

It ranges from "talking smack" to murder. From my experience, there's a lot of "talking smack" here in America, but by our standards, I would think that in other cultures, they are the less tolerant and can have harsher punishments for it.

So do we go by the number of offenses (being intolerant) or by the degree of punishment for that offense?

WAYYYYY too subjective to measure.

**TXgolfer** · 08-03-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Isn't tolerance subjective anyway?

Look at what Jillio said:

So basically, it would have to be "America is one of the least tolerant countries BY OUR STANDARDS". Just like how another culture may think we are TOO tolerant by THEIR standards.

How do we measure tolerance anyway?

It ranges from "talking smack" to murder. From my experience, there's a lot of "talking smack" here in America, but by our standards, I would think that in other cultures, they are the less tolerant and can have harsher punishments for it.

So do we go by the number of offenses (being intolerant) or by the degree of punishment for that offense?

WAYYYYY too subjective to measure.

Then why try??? Si?

08-03-2010, 06:18 PM

that is pretty F'd up.

kokonut · 08-03-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

In general, if America is such an intolerant country, why are more people of various ethnicity and religion trying to move in or stay here, than are trying to escape this country? How many Americans flee the USA to more tolerant countries to beg for asylum?

They should be so lucky to be here than in other countries.

**Reba** · 08-04-2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I dunno. But I DO know that if you owe taxes you cannot obtain a passport, so you cannot escape!

Since we are self-employed, we owe Federal taxes every year. We're on a monthly payment plan. We both have passports, no problem.

souggy · 08-04-2010, 08:20 AM

I see you guys got off at the wrong foot...

One camp is talking about imperialism; the other is talking about human rights abuses.

Hardly the same subject.

faire_jour · 08-04-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

See above post. That is one bit of evidence. Likewise, I see it on a daily basis in the treatment, by general society, of those with mental disorders, of the deaf, and of those with any difference that deviates from America's idea of the norm. I assume you are asking for evidence per my personal experience. However, if you wish to have academic sources, simply Google the topic and you will find numerous professional, academic, peer reviewed articles based on research that support my supposition. You can limit your search to sociology, anthropology, and/or social psychology, if you wish.

"That is based on research from varying cultures. I suggest you access some of the research options I have provided. In a cultural context, the anthropological classification would be most beneficial for you."

This is what we have a problem with. If you have read "numerous professional, academic, peer reviewed" sources for you information, share them. If not, just say it is your opinion, like the rest of us do.

souggy · 08-04-2010, 11:48 AM

Johnny, go get your gun, for the commies are in our hemisphere today; Ivan, go fly your MIG, for the Yankee imperialists have come to play...

**TXgolfer** · 08-04-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Johnny, go get your gun, for the commies are in our hemisphere today; Ivan, go fly your MIG, for the Yankee imperialists have come to play...

It's Johnny rosin up your bow and play your fiddle hard.

**TXgolfer** · 08-04-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

This is what we have a problem with. If you have read "numerous professional, academic, peer reviewed" sources for you information, share them. If not, just say it is your opinion, like the rest of us do.

Yeah....that's gonna happen

kokonut · 08-04-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

It's Johnny rosin up your bow and play your fiddle hard.

Love that song! The Devil Went Down to Georgia by the Charlie Daniels band.

kokonut · 08-04-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Yeah....that's gonna happen

LOL. Very astute!

jillio · 08-05-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I guess you don't realize that people who live in Buddhist countries, such as Thailand, are not tolerated by their family and friends if they convert to another religion or don't follow Buddhist practices.

Yes, I do realize that. And within Buddhist society, it is not seen as intolerant.

08-03-2010, 04:51 PM	#107 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,560	If you are a hard working, law abiding illegal immigrant in Mexico they charge you with a Felony....... How tolerant! Of course I guess that is better than getting the death penalty for a DWI..... __________________ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21 Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

08-04-2010, 08:20 AM	#113 (permalink)
souggy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 9,541	I see you guys got off at the wrong foot... One camp is talking about imperialism; the other is talking about human rights abuses. Hardly the same subject. __________________ "It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

08-04-2010, 11:48 AM	#115 (permalink)
souggy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 9,541	Johnny, go get your gun, for the commies are in our hemisphere today; Ivan, go fly your MIG, for the Yankee imperialists have come to play... __________________ "It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

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08-03-2010, 03:53 PM	#101 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	The intolerance of the U.S. is not restricted to it's own borders. It projects itself over the entire world. Much, much more widespread. In addition to that which is placed upon it's own citizens. Manifest Destiny continues in a revised edition in this country. And, if the citizens of that society don't consider that which you label as intolerant as actual intolerance or unacceptable, then again, it is you that is being intolerant of their autonomy and right to decide what they agree with or don't agree with. That seems to be a consensus seen in the U.S. in abundance.

08-03-2010, 04:21 PM	#105 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,108	In general, if America is such an intolerant country, why are more people of various ethnicity and religion trying to move in or stay here, than are trying to escape this country? How many Americans flee the USA to more tolerant countries to beg for asylum?

08-03-2010, 06:18 PM	#110 (permalink)
rockdrummer Guest Posts: n/a	that is pretty F'd up.