World Comparison

Moderator gave me permit to create a new thread with different title here and paste some of posts from my lock thread there over here.

Please make sure that my thread won´t lock again...

Jiro´s post.
2. these statistics above are largely caused by CRIMINALS WITH ILLEGAL GUNS (which can be lowered if gun restriction is eased down)

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Jiro´s post
please educate yourself more on details of those math. Majority of cases are caused by CRIMINALS WITH ILLEGAL GUNS such as robberies, gang wars, drug wars, etc. It's not hard to understand, right?

How can we protect ourself against CRIMINALS WITH ILLEGAL GUNS? What's your solution for that? Please tell me

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Okay, if you insist it´s criminal with illegal guns then you should look at your own link...

Crime Statistics > Murders with firearms (most recent) by country

Murders with firearms statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

I think we should use Switerzland as an example because you keep saying that tight the gun control restriction doesn´t solve anything...

Did you know there´re high gun owners in Switerzland as the USA`?. They tight gun control restriction and have very low murders with firearm/gun violence in Switerzland. Can you explain me how they have very low illegal crimes to compare with the USA when there´re high gun owners around with tight gun control law and US weak gun control restriction with high murder with firearm/gun violence?

Look at your own link, we have gun control restriction with low murders with firearm including Switerzland.

And look at this link what Europe country don´t have like that... too easy like you can pick anything from supermarket... No wonder why it´s too easy for criminals to buy guns like you buy foods from supermarket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/us/18pistols.html?_r=2

American gun culture obscures solutions; encourages violence | International Political Will

Shock, Sympathy And Denunciation Of U.S. Gun Laws - washingtonpost.com

US gun control law is too weak that´s how there´re high gun violience crime.

Jiro´s post
Here's a little American history for you - We banned alcohol. We tightened drug law. and what happened? waste of money and high crime rates and many innocents died. EPIC FAIL!

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I do not see anything that I suggest gun should be banned like alochol. I am well aware that ban on something doesn´t solve anything.

And can you care to explain me what you do mean "we tightened drug law"?

I want to make sure that you aware the difference between Drug addiction/abuse and the drug dealer. A person who addict to drugs, need a help, not treat them as criminal.

Lighthouse´s post
It seems to be counting U.S. as whole.

Germany is almost the same size of Texas.. Of course it will have less crime than U.S. How about comparing it to Texas.. in youth crime.

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Again, no - Germany is around twice smaller than Texas.

268,820 square miles or 696,241 square kilometers/24 million population. – Texas

137,847 square miles or 357,114.22 square kilometers/82 million population - Germany

No, it make no sense to compare this country with state of other country.

Lighthouse´s post
LOL did you really think hillbillies don't know how to read? how do you think they wrote that sign? They went to school too.

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It´s not teacher´s job task to train and test you for get lisecne to be responsible gun owner at school. Right?

For your information, it´s not just "hillbillies" or *redneck* but for everyone who want to be responsible gun owner should be trained, tested and licensed like driving school. I can write/read and attend school but I still apply for driving theory test at driving school to answer over hundreds questions accord the driving law. I passed it and then took driving lesson and pass to get driving liescne. It should be exact same with gun class if I want to be responsible gun owner then apply for test and train to get liescne, not school.

In Switerzland where there´re high gun owners around, get license after training and test - no wonder why there´re very low gun crime to compare with the USA who also have high gun owners as well.

Jiro´s post

yes. what about homeowners with pools in backyard? Many children died. What about drugs? suicides? parent abuses? automobiles? I'm far more concerned about those than children deaths caused by guns.

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wow *speechless*

I´m concern about human being´s life for ANYTHING, NOT compare parents abuse, drugs, etc with guns. It´s cold heart to say "...........than children´s death caused by guns".

Jiro´s post

I guess you didn't understand me. I'm referring to GEOGRAPHICAL SIZE. Beside you're comparing Germany to a country which is 28x bigger than Germany and 4x more people than Germany and a far more racial diversity than Germany. Per Capita Percentage means nothing to me when you're ignoring SEVERAL IMPORTANT VARIABLES that explain a HUGE DIFFERENCE between those countries.

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wow, it shows itself is lack of knowledge and skills to educate well enough.


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B]Lichthouse´s post[/B]
I do think we need alittle more safety, but taking guns away is not the answer. We have banned many things here before and it never seem to work 100%

I don't mind the testing.. I think most people do have to have a gun permit in order to get a gun.

btw, in FL they require by law that pools must be fenced.

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Yes, I agree that banned something doesn´t solve anything.

That´s exact example what you said that pools must be fenced in FL - it´s exact what I am trying to say that gun control law should be restriction as well because its about safety.

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77
ummm, I really don't think common sense really have anything to do with this. The Muhs would pass the test with no problem and still hold on what they think is their rights. That is trespassing means you will get shot. Which is why I think fencing should be required to keep kids away and they would go to jail for shooting anything outside of their fence on self defense and go to jail for shooting at a minor.

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The reason I use :jaw: to respone your post because use common sense is mainly important to be responsible gun owner. Its about knowledge and skills. Have you read couple´s warning sign in my lock thread? Their test would be 100% fail if they answer like that to the question of test.

Is it okay to shoot children, no matter either they are trespassers or not when they know children are no threaten to property owner? To me, it´s not self-defense but manslaughter.

Jillio´s post
Yeah, times have changed and laws have changed. There are more children killed by gunfire now in the state of Texas, in the United States as a whole, that were killed in 1983. The fact that the deaths are increasing is a blatant statement that something is wrong, terribly wrong.

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wow I´m total appalled... I feel really bad for poor children but I really feel bad for the parents who are stress to make sure that children won´t go near the owner´s property case they will get shot. It´s very scary...

PowerON´s post

Not even visit Fredericksburg, TX? It's famous German town. My mom's favorite place to visit there. Yeah, she is German heritage.

Seriously... it's just people who have none common sense and shot. I look up on news you place the source, the couple look retard to me. Being trespass and the owner just simple shot over the air to warning or to scary them away which is simple thing. Geez...

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wow, interesting, I didn´t know that there´re German town in Fredericksburg, TX. wow, your mother is German heritage... I will google to check Fredericksburg, TX.

Yes, I agree that the couple have no common sense and retarded. I just cannot understand why they are allow to be gun owners.

Again, please make sure that this thread won´t be lock again... If you want to disagree with me then please use common sense.

Gun rights has been part of our society, that's America and our constitution does represent it.

DC has banned on guns for over decade and crime has went skyrocket until struck down by supreme court, strict gun control or banned wouldn't solve any problem in our country, even Clinton has attempted to restrict the guns but overturned after republican took congress in 1994.

There's black market that sell guns so unregulated is very common in America, along with many part of Latin America and Russia, it's really no way to combat the black market and don't blame on gun rights for cause to increase of crime rate. Russia has high murder rate but their gun law is little more restriction when compare to America.

I'm pro-gun rights, it's retard to compare with guns and crime, both of them don't always compare.

I'm sorry Liebling - I'm not going to argue any further with you. Our POVS have been said and heard. Agree to disagree. This is my country and Germany is your country. Worry about your country and I worry about mine.

Amendment 2 is here to stay. Gun restriction comes and goes on every administration. During Clinton and Obama Administrations - the gun restriction laws are tightened. During Bush Administration, the gun law is laxed.

To continue more of this farce debate which will most likely result in a locked thread is simply a waste of my time. Everybody knows my stance on gun issue and your stance. That's all I will say on this matter

Have a good day!

Jiro said:

I'm sorry Liebling - I'm not going to argue any further with you. Our POVS have been said and heard. Agree to disagree. This is my country and Germany is your country. Worry about your country and I worry about mine.

Amendment 2 is here to stay. Gun restriction comes and goes on every administration. During Clinton and Obama Administrations - the gun restriction laws are tightened. During Bush Administration, the gun law is laxed.

To continue more of this farce debate which will most likely result in a locked thread is simply a waste of my time. Everybody knows my stance on gun issue and your stance. That's all I will say on this matter

Have a good day!

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Clinton admin? Not during time after republican tookover congress and gun restriction were overturned or lifted.

For Obama admin, I haven't notice any change in gun policies yet, even if republican takeover congress in 2010 then Obama wouldn't able to tighten the gun control.

Yup, Liebling should worries about her country.

Foxrac said:

Clinton admin? Not during time after republican tookover congress and gun restriction were overturned or lifted.

For Obama admin, I haven't notice any change in gun policies yet, even if republican takeover congress in 2010 then Obama wouldn't able to tighten the gun control.

Yup, Liebling should worries about her country.

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you should know that gun laws during Clinton Administration was most restricted one in the history. Bush Administration overturned major bills signed by Clinton. As for Obama Administration - you're right that there isn't a significant change yet but the gun & bullet sales went up by like 200%, I believe. Why? because people know it's going to be Clinton Administration all over again. Many weapons especially assault rifles and other weapons will be banned and the cost will skyrocket.

Obama has already stated his stance in gun law earlier. He despises guns and Amendment 2. So does Hillary Clinton. That's why his state - Illinois has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.

Oh man, are you serious about Clinton admin? I found from NRA and they said gun restriction were overturned or lifted after republican takeover congress in 1994 and restriction seems started in 1993-1994 when congress were majority democrat at this time. It could be half or who knows.

For Obama, ugh, I hopefully he would leave gun rights alone and he need get his ass to focus on economy or could affect his election in 2012 or could affect democrat election in next year, if republican win to takeover congress then it means Obama admin isn't good or so-so.

In serious case, some people could appeal Obama's gun restriction at supreme court to strike the gun restriction law down.

Foxrac said:

Oh man, are you serious about Clinton admin? I found from NRA and they said gun restriction were overturned or lifted after republican takeover congress in 1994 and restriction seems started in 1993-1994 when congress were majority democrat at this time. It could be half or who knows.

For Obama, ugh, I hopefully he would leave gun rights alone and he need get his ass to focus on economy or could affect his election in 2012 or could affect democrat election in next year, if republican win to takeover congress then it means Obama admin isn't good or so-so.

In serious case, some people could appeal Obama's gun restriction at supreme court to strike the gun restriction law down.

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yep... During Clinton Administration - he signed Brady Bill & Assault Weapons Ban and used his executive orders to implement extremely aggressive and most restrictive gun control policies, and so on... Supreme Court had already declared some parts of Brady Bill as unconstitutional.

As for Obama Administration - it will most likely follow same path as Clinton. oh well....

Jiro said:

yep... During Clinton Administration - he signed Brady Bill & Assault Weapons Ban and used his executive orders to implement extremely aggressive and most restrictive gun control policies, and so on... Supreme Court had already declared some parts of Brad Bill as unconstitutional.

As for Obama Administration - it will most likely follow same path as Clinton. oh well....

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Actually, death statistics related to guns went down after the Brady Bill was put into effect.


Injury and death rates:
The number of unintentional deaths from firearms declined 80 percent from 1997 to 2002.

Some other interesting facts:

In 2002, 60 children ages 14 and under died from unintentional firearm-related injuries; more than half of those children were between the ages of 10 and 14.
Non-powder gun-related injuries (for example, BB guns or pellet guns) sent nearly 8,300 children to hospital emergency rooms for treatment in 2003.
Where and when:
Most unintentional firearm-related deaths among children occur in or around the home; 50 percent at the home of the victim, and 40 percent at the home of a friend or relative.
The presence of a firearm in the home increases the risk of unintentional firearm-related death among children (especially if the firearm is loaded and kept unlocked).
Most unintentional firearm-related child deaths involve guns that were loaded and accessible, and occur when children play with the gun.
More than one-half of firearm owners keep their firearms loaded and ready for use some of the time.
Most unintentional shootings among children occur in the late afternoon, on the weekend, during summer months, and during the holiday season, when children are most likely to be unsupervised.
Rural areas have higher incidences of unintentional firearm-related injuries, as well as higher rates of firearm ownership.
Who:
Approximately 3.3 million children in the US live in households with firearms that are, at times, kept loaded and unlocked.
Boys are more likely to suffer unintentional firearm-injuries or die from an unintentional shooting than girls. Nearly 80 percent of children ages 14 and under who die from unintentional shootings are boys.
As many as 75 percent to 80 percent of first and second graders know where their parents' gun is kept.
Some 3-year-olds are strong enough to pull the trigger of many handguns.
Last Update
February 3, 2008

Firearms - Injury Statistics and Incidence Rates

And if anyone is interested in the exact text in the Brady Bill, it can be found here:

Brady Bill Text


Most murders (68% in 2006) in the United States are committed with firearms, especially handguns. On average, 31 gun homicides are committed EVERY DAY. In 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available, 30,694 people in the United States died from firearm-related deaths, including 12,352 murders, 17,002 suicides, and 789 accidents. An additional 71,417 people were shot and survived their injuries and 477,040 persons were victims of a crime committed with a firearm. In comparison, 33,651 Americans were killed in the Korean War and 58,193 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War. In the first five years of the U.S.-Iraq War, over 4,000 American soldiers were killed; however, more civilians are killed with guns in the U.S. every seven weeks. In a 10-year span, 633 law enforcement officers were feloniously killed by firearms in the US ; a handgun was the murder weapon in 78% (492 victims) of those murders; of the remainder, rifles killed 106 officers and shotguns killed 35. 253 slain officers were equipped with armor as well. Regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.
Green Prudence: Has America Had Enough Gun Violence Yet?
We stand out among western nations for the number of gun-related deaths in our country. Thus, the most recent statistics available show that, in 2005, 30,694 people died from firearm-related deaths in America; of that number, 12,352 were murdered; 17,002 killed themselves; 769 were killed accidentally and 330 died by police intervention.
The comparison with other countries is staggering. In 2004, firearms were used to murder 56 people in Australia, 184 in Canada, 73 in England an Wales, 37 in Sweden. And, in America, guns that year murdered 11,344 people.Guns: America's Disgrace | NBC New York

According to the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 3,006 children and teens were killed by firearms in 2005, the first increase since 1994 and the first rise in gun deaths since Congress allowed the Assault Weapons Ban to expire in 2004.When 32 people were killed at Virginia Tech and five at Northern Illinois University, the public was outraged. Yet every four days we have the equivalent of a Virginia Tech tragedy that passes unnoticed. Our gun violence epidemic robs parents of their children, wastes our human potential, and drains resources from our health care system.
Children's Defense Fund: 2008 Gun Report

Liebling:-))) said:

Did you read Jillio´s 2 links, Foxrac and Jiro?


I am waiting for you to answer my question about drug law, Jiro.

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Did you read my post #3?

Liebling:-))) said:

Foxrac & Jiro, I am not talking about Germany but Switerzland.

I assume that you both don´t know how to answer my questions about Switerzland where high gun owners are around with gun control restriction and very low gun crime to compare with the USA.

Jiro, I answered your question about legal and illegal... Now I see that you don´t know how to answer my response post over Switerzland...

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Forum Rules

10.) No enticing or provoking other members to cause them to get into trouble.

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Again - read my post #3 and several other locked gun-related threads. I don't need to repeat my arguments.

Jiro said:

Did you read my post #3?

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Yes, I read and correct you in my post # 10 that it´s Switerzland, I compare and question about, not Germany.

Liebling:-))) said:

Yes, I read and correct you in my post # 10 that it´s Switerzland, I compare and question about, not Germany.

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yes I am aware of it. I recall making statement about it in old locked threads. Please search it for yourself. btw - you corrected nothing in my post. I simply said I will not debate with you any further because everybody knows what our stances are. No need to repeat it.

Jiro said:

Forum Rules

Again - read my post #3 and several other locked gun-related threads. I don't need to repeat my arguments.

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For your information, I know the AD rules. I responsed to correct you in my post #10 because you thought it´s Germany, I referred to or don´t want to answer about Switzerland issues.

Yes, other gun control threads are remain open except my thread of yesterday.

Yes, that´s why I wrote to make sure that my thread won´t lock again.

Jiro said:

yes I am aware of it. I recall making statement about it in old locked threads. Please search it for yourself. btw - you corrected nothing in my post. I simply said I will not debate with you any further because everybody knows what our stances are. No need to repeat it.

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Moderator permited me to create a new thread.

I quoted to answer your questions because you want my answer. You have my answer and I question you about Switerzland. Nobody forces you if you don´t want to answer my question about Switerzland.

Liebling:-))) said:

Moderator permited me to create a new thread.

I quoted to answer your questions because you want my answer. You have my answer and I question you about Switerzland. Nobody forces you if you don´t want to answer my question about Switerzland.

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so why make a rude comment - "Now I see that you don´t know how to answer my response post over Switerzland"?

That, my dear, is enticing and provoking. Like I said - I've already answered that question in old locked thread. It's up to you to search for it or not.