Liebling:-)))

Moderator gave me permit to create a new thread with different title here and paste some of posts from my lock thread there over here.

Please make sure that my thread won´t lock again...


Okay, if you insist it´s criminal with illegal guns then you should look at your own link...

Crime Statistics > Murders with firearms (most recent) by country

Murders with firearms statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

I think we should use Switerzland as an example because you keep saying that tight the gun control restriction doesn´t solve anything...

Did you know there´re high gun owners in Switerzland as the USA`?. They tight gun control restriction and have very low murders with firearm/gun violence in Switerzland. Can you explain me how they have very low illegal crimes to compare with the USA when there´re high gun owners around with tight gun control law and US weak gun control restriction with high murder with firearm/gun violence?

Look at your own link, we have gun control restriction with low murders with firearm including Switerzland.

And look at this link what Europe country don´t have like that... too easy like you can pick anything from supermarket... No wonder why it´s too easy for criminals to buy guns like you buy foods from supermarket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/us...tols.html?_r=2

American gun culture obscures solutions; encourages violence | International Political Will

Shock, Sympathy And Denunciation Of U.S. Gun Laws - washingtonpost.com

US gun control law is too weak that´s how there´re high gun violience crime.




I do not see anything that I suggest gun should be banned like alochol. I am well aware that ban on something doesn´t solve anything.

And can you care to explain me what you do mean "we tightened drug law"?

I want to make sure that you aware the difference between Drug addiction/abuse and the drug dealer. A person who addict to drugs, need a help, not treat them as criminal.

Again, no - Germany is around twice smaller than Texas.

268,820 square miles or 696,241 square kilometers/24 million population. – Texas

137,847 square miles or 357,114.22 square kilometers/82 million population - Germany

No, it make no sense to compare this country with state of other country.




It´s not teacher´s job task to train and test you for get lisecne to be responsible gun owner at school. Right?

For your information, it´s not just "hillbillies" or *redneck* but for everyone who want to be responsible gun owner should be trained, tested and licensed like driving school. I can write/read and attend school but I still apply for driving theory test at driving school to answer over hundreds questions accord the driving law. I passed it and then took driving lesson and pass to get driving liescne. It should be exact same with gun class if I want to be responsible gun owner then apply for test and train to get liescne, not school.

In Switerzland where there´re high gun owners around, get license after training and test - no wonder why there´re very low gun crime to compare with the USA who also have high gun owners as well.


wow *speechless*

I´m concern about human being´s life for ANYTHING, NOT compare parents abuse, drugs, etc with guns. It´s cold heart to say "...........than children´s death caused by guns".



wow, it shows itself is lack of knowledge and skills to educate well enough.


[Yes, I agree that banned something doesn´t solve anything.

That´s exact example what you said that pools must be fenced in FL - it´s exact what I am trying to say that gun control law should be restriction as well because its about safety.



The reason I use to respone your post because use common sense is mainly important to be responsible gun owner. Its about knowledge and skills. Have you read couple´s warning sign in my lock thread? Their test would be 100% fail if they answer like that to the question of test.

Is it okay to shoot children, no matter either they are trespassers or not when they know children are no threaten to property owner? To me, it´s not self-defense but manslaughter.

wow I´m total appalled... I feel really bad for poor children but I really feel bad for the parents who are stress to make sure that children won´t go near the owner´s property case they will get shot. It´s very scary...



wow, interesting, I didn´t know that there´re German town in Fredericksburg, TX. wow, your mother is German heritage... I will google to check Fredericksburg, TX.

Yes, I agree that the couple have no common sense and retarded. I just cannot understand why they are allow to be gun owners.

Again, please make sure that this thread won´t be lock again... If you want to disagree with me then please use common sense.

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Foxrac

Gun rights has been part of our society, that's America and our constitution does represent it.

DC has banned on guns for over decade and crime has went skyrocket until struck down by supreme court, strict gun control or banned wouldn't solve any problem in our country, even Clinton has attempted to restrict the guns but overturned after republican took congress in 1994.

There's black market that sell guns so unregulated is very common in America, along with many part of Latin America and Russia, it's really no way to combat the black market and don't blame on gun rights for cause to increase of crime rate. Russia has high murder rate but their gun law is little more restriction when compare to America.

I'm pro-gun rights, it's retard to compare with guns and crime, both of them don't always compare.

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In Moto We Trust

Jiro

I'm sorry Liebling - I'm not going to argue any further with you. Our POVS have been said and heard. Agree to disagree. This is my country and Germany is your country. Worry about your country and I worry about mine.

Amendment 2 is here to stay. Gun restriction comes and goes on every administration. During Clinton and Obama Administrations - the gun restriction laws are tightened. During Bush Administration, the gun law is laxed.

To continue more of this farce debate which will most likely result in a locked thread is simply a waste of my time. Everybody knows my stance on gun issue and your stance. That's all I will say on this matter

Have a good day!

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Foxrac

Clinton admin? Not during time after republican tookover congress and gun restriction were overturned or lifted.

For Obama admin, I haven't notice any change in gun policies yet, even if republican takeover congress in 2010 then Obama wouldn't able to tighten the gun control.

Yup, Liebling should worries about her country.

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In Moto We Trust

Jiro

you should know that gun laws during Clinton Administration was most restricted one in the history. Bush Administration overturned major bills signed by Clinton. As for Obama Administration - you're right that there isn't a significant change yet but the gun & bullet sales went up by like 200%, I believe. Why? because people know it's going to be Clinton Administration all over again. Many weapons especially assault rifles and other weapons will be banned and the cost will skyrocket.

Obama has already stated his stance in gun law earlier. He despises guns and Amendment 2. So does Hillary Clinton. That's why his state - Illinois has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.

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Foxrac

Oh man, are you serious about Clinton admin? I found from NRA and they said gun restriction were overturned or lifted after republican takeover congress in 1994 and restriction seems started in 1993-1994 when congress were majority democrat at this time. It could be half or who knows.

For Obama, ugh, I hopefully he would leave gun rights alone and he need get his ass to focus on economy or could affect his election in 2012 or could affect democrat election in next year, if republican win to takeover congress then it means Obama admin isn't good or so-so.

In serious case, some people could appeal Obama's gun restriction at supreme court to strike the gun restriction law down.

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In Moto We Trust

Jiro

yep... During Clinton Administration - he signed Brady Bill & Assault Weapons Ban and used his executive orders to implement extremely aggressive and most restrictive gun control policies, and so on... Supreme Court had already declared some parts of Brady Bill as unconstitutional.

As for Obama Administration - it will most likely follow same path as Clinton. oh well....

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faire_jour

jillio

Actually, death statistics related to guns went down after the Brady Bill was put into effect.


Injury and death rates:
The number of unintentional deaths from firearms declined 80 percent from 1997 to 2002.

Some other interesting facts:

In 2002, 60 children ages 14 and under died from unintentional firearm-related injuries; more than half of those children were between the ages of 10 and 14.
Non-powder gun-related injuries (for example, BB guns or pellet guns) sent nearly 8,300 children to hospital emergency rooms for treatment in 2003.
Where and when:
Most unintentional firearm-related deaths among children occur in or around the home; 50 percent at the home of the victim, and 40 percent at the home of a friend or relative.
The presence of a firearm in the home increases the risk of unintentional firearm-related death among children (especially if the firearm is loaded and kept unlocked).
Most unintentional firearm-related child deaths involve guns that were loaded and accessible, and occur when children play with the gun.
More than one-half of firearm owners keep their firearms loaded and ready for use some of the time.
Most unintentional shootings among children occur in the late afternoon, on the weekend, during summer months, and during the holiday season, when children are most likely to be unsupervised.
Rural areas have higher incidences of unintentional firearm-related injuries, as well as higher rates of firearm ownership.
Who:
Approximately 3.3 million children in the US live in households with firearms that are, at times, kept loaded and unlocked.
Boys are more likely to suffer unintentional firearm-injuries or die from an unintentional shooting than girls. Nearly 80 percent of children ages 14 and under who die from unintentional shootings are boys.
As many as 75 percent to 80 percent of first and second graders know where their parents' gun is kept.
Some 3-year-olds are strong enough to pull the trigger of many handguns.
Last Update
February 3, 2008

Firearms - Injury Statistics and Incidence Rates

And if anyone is interested in the exact text in the Brady Bill, it can be found here:

Brady Bill Text


Most murders (68% in 2006) in the United States are committed with firearms, especially handguns. On average, 31 gun homicides are committed EVERY DAY. In 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available, 30,694 people in the United States died from firearm-related deaths, including 12,352 murders, 17,002 suicides, and 789 accidents. An additional 71,417 people were shot and survived their injuries and 477,040 persons were victims of a crime committed with a firearm. In comparison, 33,651 Americans were killed in the Korean War and 58,193 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War. In the first five years of the U.S.-Iraq War, over 4,000 American soldiers were killed; however, more civilians are killed with guns in the U.S. every seven weeks. In a 10-year span, 633 law enforcement officers were feloniously killed by firearms in the US ; a handgun was the murder weapon in 78% (492 victims) of those murders; of the remainder, rifles killed 106 officers and shotguns killed 35. 253 slain officers were equipped with armor as well. Regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.
Green Prudence: Has America Had Enough Gun Violence Yet?
We stand out among western nations for the number of gun-related deaths in our country. Thus, the most recent statistics available show that, in 2005, 30,694 people died from firearm-related deaths in America; of that number, 12,352 were murdered; 17,002 killed themselves; 769 were killed accidentally and 330 died by police intervention.
The comparison with other countries is staggering. In 2004, firearms were used to murder 56 people in Australia, 184 in Canada, 73 in England an Wales, 37 in Sweden. And, in America, guns that year murdered 11,344 people.Guns: America's Disgrace | NBC New York

According to the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 3,006 children and teens were killed by firearms in 2005, the first increase since 1994 and the first rise in gun deaths since Congress allowed the Assault Weapons Ban to expire in 2004.When 32 people were killed at Virginia Tech and five at Northern Illinois University, the public was outraged. Yet every four days we have the equivalent of a Virginia Tech tragedy that passes unnoticed. Our gun violence epidemic robs parents of their children, wastes our human potential, and drains resources from our health care system.
Children's Defense Fund: 2008 Gun Report

Liebling:-)))

Foxrac & Jiro, I am not talking about Germany but Switerzland.

I assume that you both don´t know how to answer my questions about Switerzland where high gun owners are around with gun control restriction and very low gun crime to compare with the USA.

Jiro, I answered your question about legal and illegal... Now I see that you don´t know how to answer my response post over Switerzland...

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Liebling:-)))

Jillio, is this man you referring to?

Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It´s interesting to read both links.


After 2002, it look like that Bush Admin. weak or change Bill Brady´s Gun law into Bush´s Gun law?

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Liebling:-)))

Very interesting link... I like the author who wrote his blog over Gun Control... I agree everything what he wrote.

The Blog From Another Dimension: Gun Control

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Liebling:-)))

Did you read Jillio´s 2 links, Foxrac and Jiro?


I am waiting for you to answer my question about drug law, Jiro.

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Jiro

Did you read my post #3?

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Jiro

Forum RulesAgain - read my post #3 and several other locked gun-related threads. I don't need to repeat my arguments.

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Liebling:-)))

Yes, I read and correct you in my post # 10 that it´s Switerzland, I compare and question about, not Germany.

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Jiro

yes I am aware of it. I recall making statement about it in old locked threads. Please search it for yourself. btw - you corrected nothing in my post. I simply said I will not debate with you any further because everybody knows what our stances are. No need to repeat it.

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Liebling:-)))

For your information, I know the AD rules. I responsed to correct you in my post #10 because you thought it´s Germany, I referred to or don´t want to answer about Switzerland issues.

Yes, other gun control threads are remain open except my thread of yesterday.

Yes, that´s why I wrote to make sure that my thread won´t lock again.

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Liebling:-)))

Moderator permited me to create a new thread.

I quoted to answer your questions because you want my answer. You have my answer and I question you about Switerzland. Nobody forces you if you don´t want to answer my question about Switerzland.

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Jiro

so why make a rude comment - "Now I see that you don´t know how to answer my response post over Switerzland"?

That, my dear, is enticing and provoking. Like I said - I've already answered that question in old locked thread. It's up to you to search for it or not.

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Jiro

OH YES it will get locked again!!!

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Jiro

Jillio - Since you have stated your qualification and knowledge in statistic background numbers of time, surely you should know that the correlation of weapon bans and high firearm restrictive laws that may contributed to a reduction in gun-related deaths is INCONCLUSIVE.

Please read a peer-reviewed paper called The Impact of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Ban on Gun Violence Outcomes: An Assessment of Multiple Outcome Measures and Some Lessons for Policy Evaluation. Christopher S. Koper and Jeffrey A. Roth - the Jerry Lee Center of Criminology, University of Pennsylvania found that that statement bothers me as you are using Virginia Tech & Northern Illinois University as a cheapshot for your personal agenda.

1. 2 guns used in Virginia Tech massacre - Walther P22 pistol and Glock 19 pistol
2. 4 guns used in Northern Illinois University massacre - a Remington 870 shotgun, a 9mm Glock pistol, 9mm Sig Sauer, and .380 Hi-Point pistol
3. The guns used at VT and NIU ARE NOT classified as Assault Weapons therefore even if Assault Weapons Ban was still in effect, this will not prevent VT and NIU massacre.
4. Children's Defense Fund: 2008 Gun Report - right... lovely... you're using extremely BIASED statement and data from ANTI-GUN organization with deep anti-gun agenda.

Ironic.... Illinois is considered as one of the most gun-restrictive states in America and yet.... this happened.

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Liebling:-)))

Jiro,

Again, I asked you question about drug law since you brought drugs issues yesterday. You mentioned about tight drug law and how it doesn´t work. I asked you to explain me what do you mean about tight drug law... Is it for drug dealers? or both drug dealers and drug addict person? Not drug addiction/abuse? Read question in my first post about drug issues.

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Liebling:-)))

[quote]I do not see anything that it´s rude or provoking comment but truth because you know there´re high gun owners in Switerzland.

I´m sorry if you feel being offend but I am straightforward and open what I think. It´s me.



No, you haven´t. There´re no Switerzland mentioned in other thread until yesterday. I ANSWERED most of your questions at other thread.

I do not force you if you don´t want to answer my questions about Switerzland because I answered your questions about illegal and legal.

:shrug:

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Liebling:-)))

[quote]The list, you mentioned is AFTER 2002. Virginia Tech massacre was happeend in 2007, that´s link I posted to reponse your post yesterday. Bush Admin. still not change or tight the gun law. I guess it would be different if Bush Admin. should keep Brady Bill´s gun law.

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Lighthouse77

[quote=Liebling:-)));1322930]
I am very close to VT... They knew the shooter had issues a long time but they couldn't do anything about it because of privacy. in another word, he was a legal adult.

Now they want to report any problems they have with the students to the parents until they are no longer consider dependent on their tax status. I say go for it. And make smoking, drinking, driving, and voting up to 21 years of age as well. In fact , make 21 years of age a legal adult instead of 18. (some people say people go to military, they should vote too, and I say, well people shouldn't go to war or anything til they are 21.. but for right now, they need training)

But it won't work because no body like it. Some kids rather go off and get married and have kids and a job.

Anyway, I am all for security in college. There are women who get raped at VT, I hear about it all the time.

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Jiro

Reread my post #22 especially #3. In Jillio's post - it's about Assault Weapons Ban, not Brady Bill. and read PDF file that I posted in my post #22.

I'm not your teacher. You're adult enough to read and learn by yourself. I thought you're willing to hear both sides, not being an ignorant. Try to read more about my side.

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Jiro

I attended VT for 3 years. and yes you're right - there was an issue about privacy. A history of mental illness is an AUTOMATIC DISQUALIFICATION to having firearm license. However - there's a loophole... the school cannot share confidential information on students to government. The government can only check for history of mental illness from public/state hospitals, not college. It's a very tricky situation - should college be allowed to report students' history of mental illness to government? Ironic thing is - that would violate FERPA law.

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Lighthouse77

I should mention the outskirt of VT is a hunting areas (the mountains). so it is common to buy guns.

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Jiro

I'll answer that question about drug but I will not debate any further with you on gun issue because it's just repeat repeat repeat. What's the point? Why do you want to upset your lavender flowers?

You should review old threads about drug laws and our news. We have already debated about it. You should know that our Drug Laws are very very strict. You should know that we spent BILLIONS on it and yet - it produced MEDIOCRE result. Many police officers, legislators, and even Obama do not like this drug law.

right...... and???? Looks like you failed to see the point in this issue. let me educate you - in drug war/crime (both drug addicts and drug dealers), there are ILLEGAL GUNS involved. Drug Dealers use ILLEGAL GUNS to fight with other drug dealers (or other people) hence GANG DRUG WAR. Drug Addicts use ILLEGAL GUNS to rob people to get money to buy drugs.

How do we protect ourselves from these drug criminals (drug addict/dealer)? We use LEGAL GUNS to protect ourselves from them who have ILLEGAL GUNS.

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