Could legal marijuana save California’s economy?

**Jolie77** · 02-15-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

The Audacity of Dope

Could legal marijuana save California’s economy?
By Jeff Segal Posted Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:36am

Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps has made marijuana a popular topic. He was photographed smoking from a bong, lost corporate sponsorships, and was suspended from the sport as a result. But celebrities aren't the only ones thinking about dope.

Some legislators in California have pot on their minds, too. That's because the government of the biggest economy in the United States is facing a massive budget deficit whose pain would be alleviated by decriminalizing marijuana.

California's current deficit stands at a whopping $15 billion and is expected to reach $42 billion next year. And the state run by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has virtually run out of cash. It recently delayed $3.5 billion of payments to taxpayers and counties.

While nearly all U.S. states currently face budget shortfalls, California's deficit is more than one-third of its general fund. That's largely due to its dependence on income taxes, which slide during a recession. And the state can't easily borrow due to the government bond-market freeze. Moody's even warned it may downgrade the state's rating.

There's no easy fix to the problem, as any solution likely requires cutting benefits and social services—tough political choices for Schwarzenegger. But the state does have an abundant natural resource it may be able to draw on for help.

Marijuana is California's largest cash crop. It's valued at $14 billion annually, or nearly twice the value of the state's grape and vegetable crops combined, according to government statistics. Indeed, a recent report pegged marijuana as two-thirds of the economy of Mendocino County, a ganja hotbed north of San Francisco. That's not surprising—it costs $400 to grow a pound of pot that can sell for $6,000 on the street.

But the state doesn't receive any revenue from its cash cow. Instead, it spends billions of dollars enforcing laws pegged at shutting down the industry and inhibiting marijuana's adherents. Of course, there's a reason for that. Marijuana's social costs may include addiction and rehabilitation treatment and lost productivity. Yet these are minute compared with the extensive social costs of alcohol or tobacco.

Of course, just legalizing pot wouldn't automatically harvest revenues for the state. An organized system of regulating sales and collecting taxes would need implementing. And it's possible that general drug use could rise, though the debate that pot is a gateway drug to harder substances is inconclusive.

There's also the question of whether or not taxing marijuana would simply create a black market that would again skimp the state on taxes. The best corollaries here are cigarettes and alcohol. Rises in "sin taxes" on them have decreased consumption—a positive—but don't seem to have destabilized the legal market. Decriminalization could lead to some job losses in law enforcement, though the countervailing argument would see these forces put to work stopping harder crime.

So what are the numbers? A national legalization effort would save nearly $13 billion annually in enforcement costs and bring in $7 billion in yearly tax revenues, according to a study by Harvard University economist Jeffrey Miron. Since California represents 13 percent of the U.S. economy, those numbers suggest the state could save $1.7 billion in enforcement costs and nab up to $1 billion in revenues. That doesn't include any indirect revenues as, for example, rural farming communities grow or marijuana tourism, which has been lucrative for the Netherlands, takes off.

Put it all together, and California could potentially wipe some $3 billion off its budget deficit by letting its people puff and pay. That still leaves it with a gaping $39 billion hole to fill, so the state's problems go far beyond what a new cash crop can fix. But anything to help soothe the state's chronic fiscal pain—even if unpalatable to some—is worth considering.

The Audacity of Dope | The Big Money

What do you guys think about this?

***naisho*** · 02-15-2009, 01:01 PM

Come on over to my state and we could all have a toke.

JK,

All in all seriousness to the topic, it has been stated here in the past that marijuana has no notable known side effects, its positives actually outweighs the negatives.

Some of the garbage controversy is seemingly done in the act of apprehensions of a few so that the profits of marijuana are to be reaped by the same and only people.

Thus in response, misinformed or "Sheeple" as jillio calls them, people draw perfunctory conclusions on cannabis in general.

Mockingbird · 02-15-2009, 09:26 PM

I actually have never heard of the positive effects of it outside of people with chronic pain and et cetera, but the negative effects are quite insignificant outside of fertility so....

I doubt that legalizing it and taxing it will help their economy/deficit. By the time it ever got through their government conservatives/moderates would have had it so heavily taxed and regulated that most people will prefer to buy marijuana from the same illegal source as they did before rather than the populace lining up to gobble marijuana and pay taxes.

On a side note, California needs some serious tax reforms. They can't just sit there with their deficit while so many of them are having an unscheduled tax break thanks to housing values plummeting.

**shel90** · 02-15-2009, 09:28 PM

It could reduce the crime rate...never know unless they try it but I agree with Mockingbird..there is the risk that people would go to other sources to purchase marijuana without the taxes.

Byrdie714 · 02-15-2009, 09:52 PM

Remember that there may be responsible pot smokers that would buy it from the State to help alleiviate the deficit.

chris' mom · 02-15-2009, 10:40 PM

I say legalize it

**Smithtr** · 02-16-2009, 12:19 AM

that is important to crime high bad people I wish be legal in Canada. I like be clean all Canada is legal. Police not allow because important to help you for important to help you I wish be government to will order for legal. That is important to safe.

**Jolie77** · 02-16-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Remember that there may be responsible pot smokers that would buy it from the State to help alleiviate the deficit.

That may be true but just exactly how would that alleviate the deficit when we know that there are a lot of other non-responsible pot smokers out there?

I have to agree - Mockingbird - but regardless if it were to be legal with it being taxed or not, It may temporarily help California's economy but it won't be seen as a permanent solution. I only have to wonder if that's the case, a temporary solution would be better than none?

Byrdie714 · 02-16-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie77

That may be true but just exactly how would that alleviate the deficit when we know that there are a lot of other non-responsible pot smokers out there?

We won't but it doesn't hurt to try.

IndieVisible · 02-16-2009, 08:15 PM

legal marijuana could save all of Mexico and the USA

**Jolie77** · 02-24-2009, 08:35 PM

Here's an article I just read and it relates to this thread --

Quote:

Ammiano wants to make marijuana legal in state

(02-24) 04:00 PST Sacramento --

California would become the first state in the nation to legalize marijuana for recreational use under a bill introduced Monday by Assemblyman Tom Ammiano of San Francisco.

The proposal would regulate marijuana like alcohol, with people over 21 years old allowed to grow, buy, sell and possess cannabis - all of which is barred by federal law.

Ammiano, a Democrat in his third month as a state lawmaker, said taxes and other fees associated with regulation could put more than a billion dollars a year into state coffers at a time when revenues continue to decline.

He said he thinks the federal government could soften its stance on marijuana under the Obama administration.

"We could in fact have the political will to do something, and certainly in the meantime this is a public policy call and I think it's worth the discussion," Ammiano said. "I think the outcome would be very healthy for California and California's economy."

A spokeswoman for the Drug Enforcement Agency in Washington, D.C., declined to comment on the proposal. A White House spokesman referred to a statement on a question-and-answer section of an Obama transition team blog that says the president "is not in favor of the legalization of marijuana."

While Californians have shown some tolerance for marijuana, such as use for medical conditions with voters' passage of Proposition 215 in 1996, the proposal will face tough opposition in Sacramento.

A lobbyist for key police associations in the state called it "a bad idea whose time has not come."

"The last thing our society needs is yet more legal intoxicants," said John Lovell, who represents the California Peace Officers' Association, California Police Chiefs Association and California Narcotic Officers' Association. "We've got enough social problems now when people aren't in charge of all five of their senses."

But Ammiano's proposal has the support of San Francisco Sheriff Michael Hennessey, who said the idea "should be the subject of legislative and public debate."

It also has the backing of Betty Yee, who chairs the state Board of Equalization, which collects taxes in California. An analysis by the agency concluded the state would collect $1.3 billion a year from tax revenues and a $50-an-ounce levy on retail sales if marijuana were legal.

The analysis also concluded that legalizing marijuana would drop its street value by 50 percent and increase consumption of the substance by 40 percent.

A spokesman for the Marijuana Policy Project, which advocates for reform in marijuana laws and is backing Ammiano's proposal, said any expected increase in consumption is a "false notion."

"They are making an intuitive assumption that a lot of people make that really does not have that much evidence behind it," said Bruce Mirken, the group's spokesman, who predicted it could take up to two years before the idea wins legislative approval.

"Don't tell me that doing something like (this) proposal is going to introduce another drug into society. That's a load of bull."

Ammiano wants to make marijuana legal in state

Here's another article which pretty much contains the same thing but also mentions that it should be taxed at $50 per ounce.

Calif. lawmaker introduces bill to legalize pot

**sequoias** · 02-24-2009, 09:34 PM

That would be awsome if it's legal. Almost every person I met smoke pot when I lived in CA. I think pot isn't that bad compared to drinking and it's less harmful when smoking it from a bong than with a rolled paper in a joint.

**Foxrac** · 02-25-2009, 03:06 AM

Oh interesting, I'm support marijuana for medical only, however it's up to state to legalize or not for pot.

I'm not surprised about economy goes in CA.

radioman · 02-25-2009, 11:03 AM

Hmm, interesting thought. If the whole USA legalize it, does this mean there will be a rise in pot smokers ? Why do pot smokers do it in the first place ? I bet that more then half of them do it for the danger thrill of something illegal and get high. The other small percentage may do it just for medical purposes.

Currently in new York if we need to get sudafed with the stronger stuff, we have to show our drivers license and get a max of 2 packages a month due to the main ingredient is used to make meth with. Perhaps USA can do the same with marijuana ? There could be taxes on it and be used only for reducing our national debt.

Now, I don't condone the use of the marijuana since we all have been taught since grade school that it is bad. Have we been too brainwashed of it ? who knows.

**Smithtr** · 02-25-2009, 11:42 AM

No way I don't like marguina that is why legal serious I don't like marguina that is not good health because i need to important to prevent to margunia that is not good mix on medication I don't want to worst it.

PowerON · 02-25-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithtr

No way I don't like marguina that is why legal serious I don't like marguina that is not good health because i need to important to prevent to margunia that is not good mix on medication I don't want to worst it.

It's not going to kill them. But use marijuana while drive like, getting drunk is bad idea when they're use it as for fun instead take serious as medical.

It's unfortunately, there are many who aren't use it for medical but for fun and have them become relax and wacko at same time while mess with someone. Dreadful behavior.

**Smithtr** · 02-25-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

It's not going to kill them. But use marijuana while drive like, getting drunk is bad idea when they're use it as for fun instead take serious as medical.

It's unfortunately, there are many who aren't use it for medical but for fun and have them become relax and wacko at same time while mess with someone. Dreadful behavior.

that is not good health prevent to drunk or worst mess your mind. that is not good.....

That is why important to you are be careful hope be safety. i think so be careful don't do that is play games.

I don't to wreck up your life. I understand I examine to psychiast to aware to told you are stop it drugs impossible but you are must to stop it.... that is why are you be don't be lost your impairment that is not good health...

dead money · 03-03-2009, 02:03 PM

Legalizing that would definatly be a smart move. It'll put gangs out of buisness in that dept for sure. Of course everyone in the USA would make a pilgrammage to Los Angeles, I'm sure but the deficit would be literallly erased in 6-8 months I'd bet.

Berry · 03-07-2009, 11:50 AM

Legalizing marijuana would do more for the economy and society than just allow people to get stoned. There are a lot of good useful plants out there besides broccoli and cauliflower that are not thc prone particularly in the textile industry.

Problem is, as I understand it, the hemp producing plants and the thc producing plants cannot be easily distinguished from each other. If you legalize one and not the other enforcement becomes a nightmare.

If marijuana is legalized then growers could legally grow these plants for hemp to produce rope, clothing, etc. that are cheaper than wool, etc. This could, I would think, also spur California economy.

jillio · 03-07-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

Legalizing marijuana would do more for the economy and society than just allow people to get stoned. There are a lot of good useful plants out there besides broccoli and cauliflower that are not thc prone particularly in the textile industry.

Problem is, as I understand it, the hemp producing plants and the thc producing plants cannot be easily distinguished from each other. If you legalize one and not the other enforcement becomes a nightmare.

If marijuana is legalized then growers could legally grow these plants for hemp to produce rope, clothing, etc. that are cheaper than wool, etc. This could, I would think, also spur California economy.

Agreed. Add to that the wasted tax dollars devoted to law enforcement issues surrounding the growing, selling, and use could be redirected back into the economy and actually do something positive, rather than being a huge drain on the state's finances.

Berry · 03-07-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead money

Legalizing that would definatly be a smart move. It'll put gangs out of buisness in that dept for sure. Of course everyone in the USA would make a pilgrammage to Los Angeles, I'm sure but the deficit would be literallly erased in 6-8 months I'd bet

.

I do think it would make gangs less profitable. But I doubt it would effect gang membership.

I believe gangs have grown in numbers because families have grown so weak in their loyalty and love to each other. If people don't find these things at home where they belong they will find them where they are.

**Smithtr** · 03-07-2009, 07:38 PM

That is not good for marijunia because government to encourage to order to police and dog police help smell to marguina legal is not good health because that is not good because police watch to inspector to people is people is important to help you. i hope be you clean of crime..

**saywhatkid** · 03-07-2009, 08:24 PM

I have always felt it should be legal. What should happen to those that are under incarceration for previous offenses? BTW, I was a marijuana quality tester for 35 years.

I have retired, partly due to the drug testing required to find and keep a steady job. The only thing I regret from my years as a quality tester: time just seems to float by. Every time you flip the page of a calendar, that is a month of life that you never get back. I wasted many years in a haze, when I could have done much more. Oh well, enough whining from me...

Berry · 03-08-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

I have always felt it should be legal. What should happen to those that are under incarceration for previous offenses?

..

Given the economic climate I think many, if not most, would be freed. For many though Marijuana is just part of the charges against them.

Bramus · 03-08-2009, 12:22 PM

I really don't understand the logic that allows tobacco or alcohol to remain legal and for marijuana to remain illegal. Maybe it's just the lack of lobbyists when compared to the other industries

02-15-2009, 01:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
*naisho* Forum Disorders M.D.,Ph.D Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 6,162	Come on over to my state and we could all have a toke. JK, All in all seriousness to the topic, it has been stated here in the past that marijuana has no notable known side effects, its positives actually outweighs the negatives. Some of the garbage controversy is seemingly done in the act of apprehensions of a few so that the profits of marijuana are to be reaped by the same and only people. Thus in response, misinformed or "Sheeple" as jillio calls them, people draw perfunctory conclusions on cannabis in general. __________________

02-15-2009, 09:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
shel90 Let It Snow!!!! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,294 Blog Entries: 3	It could reduce the crime rate...never know unless they try it but I agree with Mockingbird..there is the risk that people would go to other sources to purchase marijuana without the taxes. __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

02-15-2009, 10:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
chris' mom Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 975	I say legalize it __________________ Lori & Sons Children are a gift from the Lord, indeed, they are a blessing.

02-16-2009, 12:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,669	Legal that is important to crime high bad people I wish be legal in Canada. I like be clean all Canada is legal. Police not allow because important to help you for important to help you I wish be government to will order for legal. That is important to safe.

02-25-2009, 03:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,521	Oh interesting, I'm support marijuana for medical only, however it's up to state to legalize or not for pot. I'm not surprised about economy goes in CA. __________________ In Moto We Trust

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02-15-2009, 09:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mockingbird Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA Posts: 237	I actually have never heard of the positive effects of it outside of people with chronic pain and et cetera, but the negative effects are quite insignificant outside of fertility so.... I doubt that legalizing it and taxing it will help their economy/deficit. By the time it ever got through their government conservatives/moderates would have had it so heavily taxed and regulated that most people will prefer to buy marijuana from the same illegal source as they did before rather than the populace lining up to gobble marijuana and pay taxes. On a side note, California needs some serious tax reforms. They can't just sit there with their deficit while so many of them are having an unscheduled tax break thanks to housing values plummeting.

02-15-2009, 09:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Byrdie714 Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,941	Remember that there may be responsible pot smokers that would buy it from the State to help alleiviate the deficit.

02-16-2009, 08:15 PM	#10 (permalink)
IndieVisible Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 323	legal marijuana could save all of Mexico and the USA

02-24-2009, 09:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
sequoias Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Iowa, the land of the cornfields and pigs Posts: 21,861	That would be awsome if it's legal. Almost every person I met smoke pot when I lived in CA. I think pot isn't that bad compared to drinking and it's less harmful when smoking it from a bong than with a rolled paper in a joint.

02-25-2009, 11:03 AM	#14 (permalink)
radioman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the good ole USA ! Posts: 2,551	Hmm, interesting thought. If the whole USA legalize it, does this mean there will be a rise in pot smokers ? Why do pot smokers do it in the first place ? I bet that more then half of them do it for the danger thrill of something illegal and get high. The other small percentage may do it just for medical purposes. Currently in new York if we need to get sudafed with the stronger stuff, we have to show our drivers license and get a max of 2 packages a month due to the main ingredient is used to make meth with. Perhaps USA can do the same with marijuana ? There could be taxes on it and be used only for reducing our national debt. Now, I don't condone the use of the marijuana since we all have been taught since grade school that it is bad. Have we been too brainwashed of it ? who knows.

02-25-2009, 11:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,669	No way I don't like marguina that is why legal serious I don't like marguina that is not good health because i need to important to prevent to margunia that is not good mix on medication I don't want to worst it.

03-03-2009, 02:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
dead money Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,492	Legalizing that would definatly be a smart move. It'll put gangs out of buisness in that dept for sure. Of course everyone in the USA would make a pilgrammage to Los Angeles, I'm sure but the deficit would be literallly erased in 6-8 months I'd bet. __________________ mike matusow...or god for short.

03-07-2009, 11:50 AM	#19 (permalink)
Berry Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oroville, Ca. Posts: 2,024	Legalizing marijuana would do more for the economy and society than just allow people to get stoned. There are a lot of good useful plants out there besides broccoli and cauliflower that are not thc prone particularly in the textile industry. Problem is, as I understand it, the hemp producing plants and the thc producing plants cannot be easily distinguished from each other. If you legalize one and not the other enforcement becomes a nightmare. If marijuana is legalized then growers could legally grow these plants for hemp to produce rope, clothing, etc. that are cheaper than wool, etc. This could, I would think, also spur California economy. __________________ Free Jillio! Living life in the sandbox.

03-07-2009, 07:38 PM	#22 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,669	That is not good for marijunia because government to encourage to order to police and dog police help smell to marguina legal is not good health because that is not good because police watch to inspector to people is people is important to help you. i hope be you clean of crime..

03-07-2009, 08:24 PM	#23 (permalink)
saywhatkid Emerging from the sun Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In space Posts: 7,242 Blog Entries: 2	I have always felt it should be legal. What should happen to those that are under incarceration for previous offenses? BTW, I was a marijuana quality tester for 35 years. I have retired, partly due to the drug testing required to find and keep a steady job. The only thing I regret from my years as a quality tester: time just seems to float by. Every time you flip the page of a calendar, that is a month of life that you never get back. I wasted many years in a haze, when I could have done much more. Oh well, enough whining from me... __________________ "Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies." ~ Mother Teresa

03-08-2009, 12:22 PM	#25 (permalink)
Bramus Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Miami Posts: 398	I really don't understand the logic that allows tobacco or alcohol to remain legal and for marijuana to remain illegal. Maybe it's just the lack of lobbyists when compared to the other industries

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