jillio

I've said it before, and will say it again. Animal testing had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that your mother had to wait for medical treatment. You are misdirecting your anger toward your mother's death. You really do need to get help with your issues regarding your mother's death. Your anger is placing you in the position of being totally illogical regarding testing procedures.

But, given the fact that you keep making this statement: What exactly do you think the researchers should have done?

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

Jiro

Curing the cancer is not a surefire technique. Chemo is not really designed to cure cancer but to reduce it to harmless level so that you can live longer. and yes it will come again. maybe not. In fact - there's no such a thing as cure. Medicine is simply an "aid," It aids your immune system in fighting off the foreign hosts. Think of medicine as giving better guns and body armors for your soldiers (white cells). Vaccination teaches your soldiers how to fight effectively against specific foreign host as part of preparation.

If there's a cure, then we would never be sick of same illness twice.... such as cold and infection. Again - medicine aids your immune system to fight the foreign host inside your body but medicine cannot fight the illness itself. We will continue to get sick/infected and get better until we die.

dreama

Yes that's right. Youve got it at last. That's exactly what I mean. Millions go into animal testing. If Millions went into finding alternatives then we would have found a cure for cancer. Even in the later stages. Since they didn't catch mom's cancer soon enough to simply remove it with a hysteractomy.
After she died I wanted a hysterectomy done on me as a precautionarly measure but my doctor wouldn't agree to it.

The tecnology is there. It's just the funds that aren't. People against abortion don't want embryotic stem cells to be used in research. They have nothing agianst Adult stem cells beign used and it seems there is now a way of making adult stem cells act like embyotic stem cells. So I've heard. I'd be happy to donate my own stem cells for reaserach or my blood but that has been refused. So I just donate money to non animal testing charities instead.

As for reading the other side. I've tried but it either depresses me, makes me want to throw up, or tear up the offending material only you can't do that on a computer can you.

Their are actually 3 sides to this.

1. Believe that Animal testing has never benifited anybody so should be scrapped.
2. Believe that Animal testing may have been of beifit in the past but is now being over used.
3. Believe their should be no limits on animal testing. The more money squandered on torturing animals the better. Unfortunately the british government falls into this camp. I've got a lot of letters from the british governent to tis affect in responce to the ones that I sent them.

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/

dreama

That's true. Unfortunatly nobody esplained this to me when mother was said to be 'cured' of cancer. Just for it to keep coming back. I don't know why they kept anoucning her to be 'cured' then putting her on waiting lists when her cancer came back. My dad even suggested to her that she looked int arthiris when the cancer returned for the 3rd time and spread to her bones. I don't believe anybody known to have cancer should be put on a waiting list.

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/

jillio

Now see what you have done. The first 2 statements are nuetral. Your third statement however, is extremely inflammatory and judgemental based on your own distorted view. Had you stopped with "Believe there should be no limits on animal testing" you would have had some credibility. But you had to turn even that into a judgement based on your belief system. You really have a lot to learn about not passing judgement.

Babyblue

Any doctor in their right mind would tell a cancer patient that they are cleared of cancer. Their is always a high chance of it coming back. I think the word is " remission." not sure of spelling.

jillio

Exactly.

Hear Again

yes, that's true babyblue. and you're right. the correct word for what you've described is "remission."

__________________
Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE
(Implanted: 12/22/04 | Activated: 1/18/05)
Right ear - Nucleus Freedom
(Implanted: 2/1/06 | Activated: 3/1/06)

Deafblind/Postlingual

Babyblue

My uncle is into his 5th year.
Cancer survivor.
He is still monitored by Doctors. They told him he still have a possibility of remission.
He survived liver, lung and prostate cancer. We did not think he would make it. But here he is 5 years later mean as ever. LOL.

They took out one lung, part of his liver and his prostates.

He did the whole nine yards of chemotherapy and a line off medication. So I am VERY thankful of animal testing.

Hear Again

wow, babyblue. that's great!

as you may know, my mother had pancreatic cancer, but by the time it was diagnosed, it had already invaded 95% of her body. from the time of her diagnosis, she only survived 5 months (the average time of survival between diagnosis of pancreatic cancer and death is 6 months). she refused chemo and wanted to "go home" when g*d said it was time. she also had skin cancer earlier in her life which she survived.

__________________
Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE
(Implanted: 12/22/04 | Activated: 1/18/05)
Right ear - Nucleus Freedom
(Implanted: 2/1/06 | Activated: 3/1/06)

Deafblind/Postlingual

Babyblue

Thanks


Sorry to hear about your Mom.

Yeah usually when someone is dianosed with pancreatic cancer or ovarian cancer it is almost too late. Usually when cancer hits the glands it is already throughout the body.

Daredevel7

I do think animal testing should be phased out at some point, perhaps we are at the brink of technology that allows us to start this process.

However, I believe animal testing over the years has brought a tremendous amount of benefits because it was the best option at the time. Dreama is assuming that in the past century, we had the "technology" for computer modeling (which btw is BASED MOSTLY on animal testing and very little on human testing) and stem cell research. So dreama, while I understand why we need to start rethinking about animal testing due to new technology, I think your understandable anger from your mother's death has caused harsh judgments on animal testing. And it scared me a little that you requested for a hysterectomy. That speaks volumes. I don't know you nor am I a professional or anything but based on your posts, it may be good to talk/vent to someone about what's happened to your mother.

dreama

Maybe my mother's doctors weren't in their right mind them?

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/

jillio

They told your mother she was "cured"? You actually witnessed this conversation where the docs told your mum she was cured?

dreama

Well I was scared, and still am. I'm afraid if I get something terminal it might kill me before the NHS did anything about it. Sorry if it sounds awfully Hypocondirac. It's just the way I feel. I don't think I've got anything terminal. At least I hope not but if It happened later on I'm afraid that I don't stand a chance.

I still wouldn't mind getting a hysterectomy as it would be one fatal illness less to worry about.

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/

jillio

Having a hysterectomy will not prevent you getting cancer. It only means that the cancer will not show up in the missing uterus. And removal will also create other health concerns. That is why the doctor does not remove organs as if it were an elective surgery like a face lift.

Daredevel7

That's the same as me saying "I will remove my breasts, one of my kidneys, uterus, and appendix" all things that I can live without for the POSSIBILITY of getting cancer/appendicitis.

Babyblue

Could be dreama.

Sorry to hear about your mother.

dreama

That should be your choice. If it made you feel better then I don't see anything wrong in it. After all prevention is better then cure.

I think we will have to agree to disagree regarding animal testing as I've tried to explain my views. I was against animal testing before my mother died but I didn't feel quite so strongly about it before.

After mother died it became a personal issue.

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/

dreama

Thanks Baby blue. I wish your uncle the best of luck.

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/

Babyblue

Jillo I was thinking the same. It could have been her mother that told dreama that she was cured. A mothers love sometimes is expressed by not wanting to worry the children or child of their illness.

Correct me if I interpreted your post wrong.

jillio

By that logic, we should all just commit suicide to prevent death from illness or disease.

Thank Gawd we have laws that protect people from themselves.

jillio

No, you are spot on. My mind was going the same direction as yours. Parents often tell children things they think will make the situation easier than the actual truth of the situation.

Daredevel7

You have to be careful. There ARE high risks with removing organs. Please look into those risks.

Well, one thing for sure, you got me into thinking about the possibility of phasing out animal testing as newer technology comes. I just don't believe that it is time yet, but it should be a consideration.

Oceanbreeze

This is true. However, my grandmother was diagnosed with uterine cancer in 1989. She had a hysterectomy as well as adjunctive chemo and she's still kickin'. She is will be 77 next month.

Had she not been afforded both chemo and surgery, it's likely she wouldn't have survived her cancer. My grandmother's cancer was also caught at a relatively early stage. I think that is the key. The sooner you diagnose and treat it effectively; the better the outcome will be.

__________________
"You can blow out a candle, but you can't blow out a fire. Once the flame begins to catch, the wind will blow it higher."

~Peter Gabriel

jillio

And, as that technology becomes available, there is no doubt that animal testing will be abandoned for more efficient and cost effective means. That is the way of progress. However, we cannot progress to that point until the time when the technology is available. That will mean that it will have to be tested the same way anything else is tested for validity and reliability. And that takes time. We aren't there yet. Consequently, we cannot abandon the means we do have without a means to replace it.

jillio

Absolutely. The chances for survival at Stage 1 are infinately better than at Stage 4. Likewise, it depends on the type of carcinoma. All cancers are not the same.

Babyblue

Dreama

In my personal opinion. We sacrifice these animals to help us find cure for diseases.

Animals are euthanise daily!

Let the animals be tested. They are making medicine possible.

Even the ones to fight cancer.

Oceanbreeze

Exactly. I don't know the exact nature of the tumor found, but it was contained within her reproductive organs. I believe that she was considered stage 2 because the cancer spread beyond her uterus, but stayed within her reproductive system? Ahh, I'm not sure of the exact nature of her cancer, but I believe that to be the case. I DO know that her ajacent organs were clean. They didn't see any tumor involving any of her other organs and haven't since the initial diagnosis. She gets checked yearly.

__________________
"You can blow out a candle, but you can't blow out a fire. Once the flame begins to catch, the wind will blow it higher."

~Peter Gabriel

dreama

I'm sorry but we will just have to agree to disagree.

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/