Do you support suicide assistance? - Page 11

**Jiro** · 10-06-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

You're partially correct. Terri was placed on a ventilator for a time after the initial collapse, but she was taken off of it. She was able to breathe on her own. The only thing at issue and what was challenged in court all those many times, was her feeding tube. That was the only thing sustaining her. That's what made this so controversial. Certain people thought the tube was merely basic care; while others akin it to medical intervention. Michael Shiavo ultimately won the court challenge to have her feeding tube removed and it was in March 2005.

yes sure... but point is - like I said, we have ability to prolong it indefinitely (even if the person is clinically dead). Just because a person can breathe does not mean he/she is conscious. We all know that brain is a very complex organ. A part of her brain is merely functional enough to perform autonomous function such as breathing but her "soul" or "conscious mind" is not there. She is long brain-dead. At what point should we continue.... or not?

Oceanbreeze · 10-06-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

yes sure... but point is - like I said, we have ability to prolong it indefinitely (even if the person is clinically dead). Just because a person can breathe does not mean he/she is conscious. We all know that brain is a very complex organ. A part of her brain is merely functional enough to perform autonomous function such as breathing but her "soul" or "conscious mind" is not there. She is long brain-dead. At what point should we continue.... or not?

I can't answer for someone else, so I'll just speak for myself. I would want to be taken off life support including feeding tubes.

**Maria** · 10-06-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Terri was being kept alive by machines. If these machines werent around, she would have died a long time ago as nature would have intended her to.

Yep, you are right about the " nature " will take place if, the machines weren't around. She will die naturally. Her husband wouldn't have gone to court to request for the feedin' tube to be removed. No body will blame or sue for " commit murder " ... nada. Everythin' will fall in right place the way it should be.

**Jiro** · 10-06-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I can't answer for someone else. I'll just speak for myself. I would want to be taken off life support including feeding tubes.

but then... you'll end up like Terry... decaying away. I don't really want to die like that. Just let me die in sleep with a small dignity... pump me up with morphine or whatever. but you know what they say..... cocaine is a hell of a drug.

Babyblue · 10-06-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Yeah and he served 8 years of something like 25 to life sentence for second degree murder, right?

Yeah he was released on parole for good behavior on June 1, 2007

**Jiro** · 10-06-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babyblue

Yeah he was released on parole for good behavior on June 1, 2007

lol

**Maria** · 10-06-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Thought you'd might be interested to know this: for biology, we did frog dissection. Instead of getting a bunch of frogs in formaldehyde, my teacher actually cut off their heads minutes before class started (disturbing I know). And we didn't know why until we opened them up... guess what? Their hearts were still beating even though their heads were completely cut off. Some students actually cut out the heart to re-enact the Indiana Jones scene and it STILL was beating for at least a minute or two. I have never been so disturbed and amused at the same time.

See ? That's what I am meanin' about the heart. The body don't die until the heart stop beatin', then it dies.

**Daredevel7** · 10-06-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

See ? That's what I am meanin' about the heart. The body don't die until the heart stop beatin', then it dies.

People's hearts stop all the time. What do you think defibrillators are for? If someone's heart stops, its "their time"? So you must be against CPR then?

**Maria** · 10-06-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What if it was in the 1800s and this happened to Terri when she fell into the comatose state? Would she have died right at that moment or lived for another several years in a vegative state?

No one knows. Maybe, it will cut her life short than expect because, of germs, infections and so on. It's why I kept pressin' to say that it is best to leave the " nature " alone to take its place and it will decide on its own.

**shel90** · 10-06-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

See ? That's what I am meanin' about the heart. The body don't die until the heart stop beatin', then it dies.

I dont get your point. Pls clarify?

**shel90** · 10-06-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

No one knows. Maybe, it will cut her life short than expect because, of germs, infections and so on. It's why I kept pressin' to say that it is best to leave the " nature " alone to take its place and it will decide on its own.

Then they shouldnt have kept Terri on a feeding tube for so long if I were to follow that statement in bold.

Babyblue · 10-06-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

lol

I know! Weird eh?

He still advocates PAS. And dying with dignity.

**Maria** · 10-06-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I dont get your point. Pls clarify?

Please, read DareDevil's post in my post # 307. It's already explained in there.

**Angel** · 10-06-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Then they shouldnt have kept Terri on a feeding tube for so long if I were to follow that statement in bold.

Then they would have to feed her by hands everyday if there weren't any feeding tubes.

It's cruel to starve someone to death.

**Maria** · 10-06-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Then they shouldnt have kept Terri on a feeding tube for so long if I were to follow that statement in bold.

Well, her heart was still beatin' at that time and they should have kept Terri on a feedin' tube.

**Daredevel7** · 10-06-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Then they would have to feed her by hands everyday if there weren't any feeding tubes.

It's cruel to starve someone to death.

I could be wrong but.... I don't even think she could swallow. If she could, what was the purpose of the feeding tube? Without the feed tubes, you'd have to ram food down her throat, which could choke her.

**Angel** · 10-06-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I meant that she was only alive as the result of artificial means. There was no more relationship, as she was not capable of engaging in the thought process and emotional process that would define an interactive relationship.

Are you saying that she was unable to give her husband his "needs" so he has every right to jump in bed with someone else?

Just wanted to make sure I'm reading you correctly.

Oceanbreeze · 10-06-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I could be wrong but.... I don't even think she could swallow. If she could, what was the purpose of the feeding tube? Without the feed tubes, you'd have to ram food down her throat, which could choke her.

She couldn't swallow, but even that was contested. There are some who believe that she could swallow. Her cerebral cortex was gone. The brain matter was gone and replaced with cerebral spinal fluid. You can debate her ability to swallow under those circumstances, but in my view, it was impossible.

Terri's autopsy report for those that care to read:

http://www.blogsforterri.com/archive...0documents.pdf

**Maria** · 10-06-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

People's hearts stop all the time. What do you think defibrillators are for? If someone's heart stops, its "their time"? So you must be against CPR then?

I don't think you get it. I will explain it again. If, a patient's heart stop beatin' and that a doctor or paramedic attempts to save a patient's life by usin' defibrillator -- if it don't success to save a patient's life, then that means a patient's heart decided to shut down without givin' an effort. Who says that I must be against CPR ?

**shel90** · 10-06-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I could be wrong but.... I don't even think she could swallow. If she could, what was the purpose of the feeding tube? Without the feed tubes, you'd have to ram food down her throat, which could choke her.

Agreed...she was being kept alive artifically and we would never know if that was what she would have wanted or not.

How many of you do u want to be kept alive in a vegative state with absulotely NO quality of life at all? I sure wouldnt..I would tell my mom to throw me out in the desert and leave me there!

**shel90** · 10-06-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Well, her heart was still beatin' at that time and they should have kept Terri on a feedin' tube.

and kept her like that for another 50 years or even longer? What if she outlives all of her relatives?

**Angel** · 10-06-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I could be wrong but.... I don't even think she could swallow. If she could, what was the purpose of the feeding tube? Without the feed tubes, you'd have to ram food down her throat, which could choke her.

From what I've read she wasn't able to feed herself but others believe she wasn't able to swallow so I dunno.

Only her parents would know since they were with her every step.

**shel90** · 10-06-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Then they would have to feed her by hands everyday if there weren't any feeding tubes.

It's cruel to starve someone to death.

But if her brain was unable to send signals to the muscle to perform the job of swallowing, she probably would have choked to death from people trying to feed her with their hands. I think that is more cruel..not that I agree about starving someone to death is humane but either way, it would have resulted in suffering. Anyways...having said that, the point is her brain was unable to function and without the brain functioning the body will die.

Oceanbreeze · 10-06-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

I don't think you get it. I will explain it again. If, a patient's heart stop beatin' and that a doctor or paramedic attempts to save a patient's life by usin' defibrillator -- if it don't success to save a patient's life, then that means a patient's heart decided to shut down without givin' an effort. Who says that I must be against CPR ?

Just because you can do it, should you?

**shel90** · 10-06-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Are you saying that she was unable to give her husband his "needs" so he has every right to jump in bed with someone else?

Just wanted to make sure I'm reading you correctly.

I dont know what Jillo's intentions were with that comment but for me, I would have consented for my husband to divorce me if I was brain dead. That's just me and my husband has told me the same but we both we probably wouldnt do it anyway.

**Daredevel7** · 10-06-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

I don't think you get it. I will explain it again. If, a patient's heart stop beatin' and that a doctor or paramedic attempts to save a patient's life by usin' defibrillator -- if it don't success to save a patient's life, then that means a patient's heart decided to shut down without givin' an effort. Who says that I must be against CPR ?

Just so I get this straight, you are for any method to keep a person alive right? In your view, humans must do everything humanely possible to keep someone alive, correct?

**Angel** · 10-06-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

why worry about heart if the person is brain-dead which means... ZERO chance of recovery... ZERO chance of normality... there's no miracle at all... not even 0.001% unless Jesus Christ himself descended from the heaven and breathed a life into her. Why do you want a dead body to continue to live on by machines? Heart itself does not define a person... or a soul. It's in the brain and that brain is long gone long time ago.

Please keep in mind Terri had brain damage and I believe in miracle.

**Maria** · 10-06-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Just so I get this straight, you are for any method to keep a person alive right? In your view, humans must do everything humanely possible to keep someone alive, correct?

Yes. What's your thoughts on this issue, if I may ask ?

Oceanbreeze · 10-06-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Please keep in mind Terri had brain damage and I believe in miracle.

Are you willing to hold your breath hoping for that miracle?

I'm not.

**Angel** · 10-06-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I dont know what Jillo's intentions were with that comment but for me, I would have consented for my husband to divorce me if I was brain dead. That's just me and my husband has told me the same but we both we probably wouldnt do it anyway.

That's good that you and your husband talked about this.

View Poll Results: Do you support suicide assistance?
Yes	21	44.68%
No	16	34.04%
Don´t know	8	17.02%
Other	2	4.26%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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