Wolf History

Liebling:-))) · 09-26-2008, 05:45 AM

to Jolie's word "Would you vote for Palin to wolves"...

Anyway, I find wolves's personality, life, etc fantastic and like to know about them so I create a new thread with new title "Wolf History". I am going to paste some of posts to response at "Would you vote for Palin"...

Come and debate.... if you are interesting to know about wolf history... including control, protection, etc.

Liebling:-))) · 09-26-2008, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Jiro's post

Have you ever heard of "Educated Guess" ? In order to capture the wolf to spay/neuter wolf... this is how you do it -

You need to pay for:
1. hire pilot + 1-2 Ranger + 1-2 Vets
2. rental of a plane/copter
3. supply of tranquilizer darts
4. cost of fuel to fly around to find wolves
5. cost of cages
6. transportation of wolves+cages from copter/plane to vet hospital
7. cost of veterinary expenses
8. another cost of transporting wolves BACK to copter/plane to wildlife

Please refer to my previous post - Wolf Management in Alaska with an Historic Perspective Presentation to the Alaska Board of Game .

Quote:

Quote:
1. The department will never again conduct widespread and continuous wolf control to increase ungulate populations. The monetary costs are too high and the public does not want their wildlife to be managed in that manner.

I believe I can assure you that $400,000 is a PENNY compared to cost to spay/neuter wolves in that manner above. According to your so-called statistic.... there are 7,000 to 11,000 wolves so I'm assuming the whole expenses is perhaps $5,000+ per wolf. So that would be.. minimum $35,000,000

Of course I know... I ASKED you to show me where you assume it could be approx $5,000 per wolf in that list, you made because your assumption is an exaggeratedly.

For your correction: I use The Defender of Wildlife's websites over estimated population is not "so-called" as what you beleive. I support Alaska Defender of Wildlife's websites over Maria's Government's link because I feel that Alaska Defender of Wildlife make sense and logical what they know a lot about wild animals than Government. No Wonder why 70% Alaskans voted against it.

You said in previous post that you love wolves but accord your posts, you protect the predator control over protect wolves's nature.

It make no sense.

About neuter/spay issues, I never say ALL wolves... but just suggestion that get pups should be fix if Palin claim that wolves are overpopulated....

Liebling:-))) · 09-26-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Jiro's post
And yes I brought up the fact of Roy Siegfried because it was a direct response to your silly post where you said "Wolves CAN be pet if you adopt and raise them with love." I have to correct you there that wolves ARE NOT A DOG and will NEVER be like dog and SHOULD NEVER BE TREATED LIKE A DOG NOR PET! To do so is NOT respecting the nature.... which is why Roy Siegfried got mauled.

Did you know how many exotic cats, Sigfried and Roy own?

How long they live with exotic cats before Roy got attacked by one of exotic cats?

They both know that they risk their lives when they want to play with their exotic cats. Sure, they take care of their exotic cats pretty good but it's just happened!!! It does the same with pitbull/rottenwietter and more dangerous dogs as well. The owner take care of them pretty good but just happened that they got attacked by their own pet dogs (pitbull, etc)

That's why I decide to not own wolfdog (common in Rep. Czech.), wolf or dangerous domestic dogs because I doubt either I am expert how to raise them... .I prefer simple dogs whom I can raise them into behave easily than wild/dangerous dogs.

I said: "the wolves can be pet...." which mean is "be possible" or "likely", not that the wolves are pets or loving and friendly pet. Get the difference? Please don't confuse those word and jump too quickly... Please read it carefully before you say something...

Why I said that the wolves can be pet when you raise them loving like you can raise pitbull/rotteilwer as loving pet but for me is not possible... because I CAN'T

See this pictures...

I love wolves but I can't have them as my pet because I know it's impossible to raise wolf to be my pet because wolf is too different as domestic dog. Some owners are expert and know how to raise wild animals... I have seen wolfdogs quite a lot in Rep. Czech. which only 3 hours away from my area. To me, they are not domestic dogs but the owners doing pretty good with them... Wolfdogs lives in forest in between Bavaria and Rep. Czech.

Gray Wolf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liebling:-))) · 09-26-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Jiro's post

That is odd way of displaying your anger. You're OK with hunters who hunted for food/warmth but not for trophy. Interesting.... do you know how hunters (who killed for food/warmth) kill animals? Do you think animals do not suffer?

It is quite common that animals do not die from one-shot. They are very wounded but they're still alive. The bullets are expensive so the hunters just simply skin them alive or just grab them by the legs and smash them against the tree or rock. Why don't you go to youtube.com and see how the Eskimos hunted seals (yes for food and warmth). Isn't that inhumane and brutal too? You should be upset about that as well.

*sigh* why do I have to repeat this to you?

I support the REAL hunters who hunt for food/warm WITHOUT use plane... but with their own foot..., not plane... I know what I am saying because I live 5 minutes away from hunter club... They WALK and make sure that wild animals don't hear them... then shot them..

The trophy hunter is not REAL hunter... The wild animals KNOW and FEAR when they saw plane and tried to defend their lives for running... but they shoot... poor wolves... they suffer is FEAR for their lives. To me what and how trophy hunter did is inhumanity and brutal.

The real hunter don't do like that... They shoot and butchered them..., not the trophy hunter... just shoot and hack wolves's legs... and also fur... Where's wolves' or bear meat go to?

Eskimos are not trophy hunter but real hunter... they hunt for FOODS and WARM. This is their culture. They don't take plane to shoot wolves for no reason... I learn from Maria's link over 5 different Alakasn culture that they killed moose, carbius, seal and fishes for foods and warm, not one word over wolves and bears mentioned until the predator control comes.... use wolf's and bear's fur/skin as warm...

I cannot understand them... I feel the same about bullfighting in Spain and fox hunting in England. I consider them as inhumanity and brutal because they are suffering.

Liebling:-))) · 09-26-2008, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Cheri's post

Accord link
The vast majority of other attacks seemed to have been committed by rabid wolves. Today, rabies is rather uncommon in the grey wolf, though infrequent attacks by rabid wolves on humans in parts of Asia and the Middle East still occur.

wolfbehavior :: All you need to know about Wolves

for post a good link here.

That's what I thought so.

Yes, wolf attacks on human is rare.

Yes, there're different type of wolves in many countries including Europe. Rabies was around 70s in Europe but uncommon... which mean is rare...

It explains some bad or good wolves in different countries depend on how the people make wolves feel fear/aggressive...

But it doesn't say in your link that Alaska wolves are rabies.

Quote:

Accord your link...
Although many of these rumours are likely exaggerated, people believed them.

Yes, I'm not surprise after search wolf history.

Liebling:-))) · 09-26-2008, 07:16 AM

History of Wolf Control in Alaska

History of Wolf Control in Alaska - Defenders of Wildlife

Alaska Wolves Background - Defenders of Wildlife

Alaska Wildlife: Moose, bear, caribou, wolves

moose statistics

Grummer · 09-26-2008, 08:57 AM

didnt realise you're an ardent animal activist, or at least you have given some values to animals, yay.

Angel · 09-26-2008, 01:43 PM

Liebling:-))) for creating this thread, I wanted to reply to Jiro's posts but unfortunately the thread got locked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

It was already been tried. The debate has concluded that it was ineffective and extremely costly. Refer to my previous post
Historic Perspective of Wolf Management in Alaska, Alaska Department of Fish and Game Videos

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

I certainly do not see anything in the link that you provided about trying to resolve the issue of wolf control by spaying/neutering because there's no such a program to provide quality care for these wild animals.

As an animal lover, I would rather to see the state or government authorities to find other ways to resolve this issue by providing spay/neuter programs/shelters or homes for them instead of killing them. If I have to collect over a thousands of signatures in order to save the wild animal overpopulation crisis, I would.

I know that there will be a day when we need to hunt animals for food which I have no problem with that at all and also know that saving lives cost money too..

dreama · 10-02-2008, 11:16 PM

Have you gone vegan lately?

I don't like Palin's views on animal rights but Obama has nothing better to offer. Whilst all animal cruelty is wrong the worst is vivisection and factory farming. More animals are killed daily in factory farming and vivisection labs then then there are wolves and bears.

I read an article about which is the most animal friendly party and neither of them look good. An animal rights protester asked OBama what he was going to do about animal rights and he says he's going to buy his daughter a pet dog. So in short Obama is going to do NOTHING about animal cruelty.

I like Palin's stand against abortion. So at least she feels passionately about something wheras Obama gives me the creeps.

Jiro · 10-02-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Have you gone vegan lately?

I don't like Palin's views on animal rights but Obama has nothing better to offer. Whilst all animal cruelty is wrong the worst is vivisection and factory farming. More animals are killed daily in factory farming and vivisection labs then then there are wolves and bears.

I read an article about which is the most animal friendly party and neither of them look good. An animal rights protester asked OBama what he was going to do about animal rights and he says he's going to buy his daughter a pet dog. So in short Obama is going to do NOTHING about animal cruelty.

I like Palin's stand against abortion. So at least she feels passionately about something wheras Obama gives me the creeps.

Who cares about what Palin says. Obama is running for president and Palin is not. People need to stop talking about Palin - Obama. Stick with McCain - Obama. oh btw - nope... I will always be a meat-eater. I've seen all the clips of farm animals being slaughtered and that didn't stop me from eating meat... it only just make me drool even more.

web730 · 10-03-2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

... I will always be a meat-eater. I've seen all the clips of farm animals being slaughtered and that didn't stop me from eating meat... it only just make me drool even more.

Oh ye bad!

dreama · 10-03-2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

McCain & Palin:

“McCain co-sponsored new legislation to stop horse slaughter, backed a bill to stop the shipment of live birds between states for the only purpose of cockfighting, supported a bill to stop the killing of bears by ending trade in their gall bladders and other viscera and organs.

“Senator McCain also took a position against the fur industry, by voting to eliminate a $2 million subsidy for the mink industry. And he voted against allowing drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, saving the thousands of animals who lived there.

“He earned scores of up to 75 percent on the Humane Scorecard”
(source)

However,

“A woman from an exceedingly macho state, Palin takes pride in her hunting skills. She has even gone as far as taking her daughter out with her on caribou shooting expeditions. In passing on the hunting lifestyle to her daughter, Palin is merely following in the footsteps of her father who in turn took her as a child to hunt moose. What is the governor’s favorite food? That would be moose stew, of course! A longtime member of the National Rifle Association, Palin once proudly announced that her freezer was full of wild game.

“No friend to wild animals, Palin has offered incentives for people who kill wolves in an effort to boost Alaska’s predator control program which so far has failed to meet expected numbers. The incentives include offering 180 volunteer pilots and aerial gunners $150 in cash for turning in gruesome legs of freshly killed wolves.”
(source)

“John McCain was bombing women in a light bulb factory and animals in its surroundings when shot down, has a 0% animal rights voting record. Water buffalo, birds and countless other animals were burned bombed and maimed by the napalm, by machine gun fire, etc. He wants to continue his 41 year history of supporting the murder of people and animals in illegal and violent wars.”
(source)

“Palin has sued the Bush administration to delist polar bears under the Endangered Species Act because the protection of polar bears interferes with drilling for oil and gas. Palin even penned an op-ed for the New York Times, explaining her scientific arguments against protecting polar bears. Isn’t it funny how her op-ed doesn’t mention drilling for oil? [...] from an animal rights standpoint, Sarah Palin would be a disastrous VP.”
(source)

Obama & Biden:

“Senator Obama released the following statement: ‘When I am President, it will not be business as usual when it comes to food safety. I will provide additional resources to hire more federal food inspectors. I will also call on the Department of Agriculture to examine whether federal food safety laws need to be strengthened, in particular to provide greater protections against tainted food being used in the National School Lunch Program.’

“‘As the parent of two young daughters, there are few issues more important to me than ensuring the safety of the food that our children consume. I commend the Humane Society of the United States for bringing this important issue to the public attention and believe that the mistreatment of downed cows is unacceptable and poses a serious threat to public health.’”
(source)

“Obama has shown a bit more compassion towards animals. During a candidate’s town hall meeting outside Las Vegas, a woman shouted out at Obama, ‘What about animal rights?’ Obama responded that he cared about animal rights very much, ‘not only because I have a 9-year-old and 6-year-old who want a dog.’

“Obama added that he sponsored a bill to prevent horse slaughter in the Illinois state Senate and had been repeatedly endorsed by the Humane Society. ‘I think how we treat our animals reflects how we treat each other,’ he said. ‘And it’s very important that we have a president who is mindful of the cruelty that is perpetrated on animals.’”
(source)

“he is considered a strong candidate on animal rights issues. He has co-sponsored new legislation to stop horse slaughter and export of horses for human consumption, to upgrade federal penalties for dogfighting and cockfighting, to ban possession of fighting dogs and being a spectator at a dogfight. He also signed a letter requesting increased funds for enforcement of the Animal Welfare Act, Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, and federal animal fighting law. Sent letter to National Zoo expressing concern for the care of Toni the elephant.

“In his response to a questionnaire by the Humane Society Legislative Fund (which tries to pass animal protection laws at state and federal levels), Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane.”
(source)

Senator Biden supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 75 percent in 2007.
Senator Biden supported the interests of the Fund for Animals 80 percent in 2005-2006.
(source)

However,

“In April 2007 he said: ‘I don’t hunt myself, but I respect hunters and sportsmen.’”
(source)

“Obama’s wife has been the spokesperson for vivisecting Univ of Chicago”
(source)

Sections: Vegan Activism, Vegan News
Topics: candidates, McCain, Obama, politics, veg, Vegan

From comments:

Quote:

I’m not sure what Mr. Obama’s position on killing wildlife is. However I do know he is personally responsible for blocking a bill that would have allowed doctors to give medical treatment to babies born alive after botched abortions. He listened to personal testimony from nurses who were only allowed to hold these babies for their short lives and watch them inhumanly suffer and fade away which often takes hours. Obama personally blocked the state bill even after wording was changed be the same as the Federal Bill which passed the US Senate unopposed (Both Hillary & Kerry voted in favor of the bill). I cannot vote for someone who has that little regard for human life. I also cannot imagine that someone who is not concerned with the humane treatment of newborn babies would somehow be concerned with humane treatment of animals.

Here are links to the full congressional testimony of some of these nurses- no spin added.
NoBama News: Jill Stanek's Full Testimony
NoBama News: Allison Baker's Full Testimony
the federal law - no spin added
http://www.nrlc.org/ObamaBAIPA/BAIPAFederal.pdf

Jill Stanek is the nurse who took this issue to her state legislature. This is the link to her full report in Citizen Link (non-partisan)

CitizenLink: Obama Blocked Born Alive Infant Protection Act

Quote:

I’ve seem Obama eat a steak sandwich on tv. I only saw McCain eat ice cream on tv. But, Palin, I see, that the killing of the Caribou is more humane than the slaughterhouses that kill food on our dinner table. At least that Caribou had a great life until it died, unlike the life of the slaughterhouse cows that live miserable lives.

I still vote for McCain with his strong environmental issues and his desire to preserve wildlife and natural environments with their species intact. And, he supports not slaughtering horses, which is great. And, I believe Palin only kills what she eats, not like these wasteful slaughterhouse junkies eating fast food and killing animals and beating them to death or abusing them while in the slaughterhouses. We need a vegan president.

Obama, Biden, McCain, Palin on Animal Issues

A lot of the stuff on Sarah Palin only seems to focus on Bears and Wolves. Mind you she does believe in the right to arm bears. I wonder if she believes in the right to arm wolves too. At least that would give them more of a sporting chance.

dreama · 10-14-2008, 05:59 PM

Please read:
It's about Sarah Palin apposing factory farm for fish in her area. Please read:

Quote:

Palin Calls for a Halt to Offshore Fish Farm
Proposal by the Federal Government Printer Friendly

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE No. 08-155

Palin Calls for a Halt to Offshore Fish Farm Proposal

September 12, 2008, Anchorage, Alaska – Governor Sarah Palin today expressed her administration’s objections to elements of the federal government’s proposal to allow decommissioned oil and gas platforms in federal waters to be used for fish farming and other forms of aquaculture.

“Alaska’s natural wild fisheries have been well managed on a sustainable basis for years, and are critically important to our state’s economy, especially in our coastal communities,” said Palin. “Disease, parasites, and escapement of non-native stocks from fish farms are just some elements of the threat that aquaculture can pose to wild fish stocks.”

Alaska Governor Sarah Palin

Liebling:-))) · 10-15-2008, 09:28 AM

Accord one of Dreama's links.

Quote:

And, I believe Palin only kills what she eats, not like these wasteful slaughterhouse junkies eating fast food and killing animals and beating them to death or abusing them while in the slaughterhouses. We need a vegan president.

Huh? Palin did not kill wolves and bears for the foods, isn't she? Where bears and wolves's meats go to if Palin said that she don't like wasteful, etc?

I have no problem for kill any animals and fishes for the foods but wolves and bears?

Reba · 10-15-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Please read:
It's about Sarah Palin apposing factory farm for fish in her area. Please read:

Alaska Governor Sarah Palin

Good for her. I prefer not to eat factory farmed fish. They are nasty.

Jiro · 10-15-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Accord one of Dreama's links.

Huh? Palin did not kill wolves and bears for the foods, isn't she? Where bears and wolves's meats go to if Palin said that she don't like wasteful, etc?

I have no problem for kill any animals and fishes for the foods but wolves and bears?

simple. dead wolves and bears would be food for nature. ever heard of scavengers?

Reba · 10-15-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

simple. dead wolves and bears would be food for nature. ever heard of scavengers?

Right, the food chain.

Tousi · 10-15-2008, 12:10 PM

If the animal is taken in a legitimate hunt but the hunter doesn't want it for food, they usually take it to the nearest locality and give it to the poor.

dreama · 10-15-2008, 03:45 PM

For what it's worth, I've heard that she does eat what she killed. She's got a freezer full of the stuff.

I'm just saying what I heard. As a vegan I believe it is always wrong to kill (except in self defense or Euthanising a already dying animal) but of course wasteful killing is worse. I also think factory farming is the worse kind of killing since of the extra cruelties involved. The game Sarah Palin kills at least were free up until the time she killed them, but then again they might not have wanted to be killed in the first place but are better off for not being traumatised as factory farmed animals are before hand.

Beowulf · 10-15-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

If the animal is taken in a legitimate hunt but the hunter doesn't want it for food, they usually take it to the nearest locality and give it to the poor.

I got a strange craving for wolf-tail and bear-claw stew...

Tousi · 10-15-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I got a strange craving for wolf-tail and bear-claw stew...

I'll send you some pemmican in its own leather pouch.

Beowulf · 10-15-2008, 04:25 PM

A haggis by any other name tastes just as sweet, lol.

Tousi · 10-15-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

A haggis by any other name tastes just as sweet, lol.

Reba · 10-15-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

A haggis by any other name tastes just as sweet, lol.

I ate haggis a couple weeks ago at the Scottish games; once a year is enough for me.

Reba · 10-15-2008, 08:12 PM

Bear recipes:

Bear Recipes

Mrs Bucket · 10-15-2008, 09:13 PM

Why is it that the elections brings out the worst in us? LOL!

Beowulf · 10-16-2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I ate haggis a couple weeks ago at the Scottish games; once a year is enough for me.

Ye had your fill then, wee lassy? Begorra the bear is not happy.

Liebling:-))) · 10-16-2008, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I ate haggis a couple weeks ago at the Scottish games; once a year is enough for me.

Liebling:-))) · 10-16-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Bear recipes:

Bear Recipes

Bear?

but that's recipes is good useful for cow's or pork's meat...

Liebling:-))) · 10-16-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

simple. dead wolves and bears would be food for nature. ever heard of scavengers?

Yes I know what scavengers is about... there're plenty of overleft meats go to scavengers after butcher the animals for the foods... It's not just Alaska but around the world... I see no excuse to have bears/wolves's meats for scavengers.

Accord Alaskan Wildlife websites, the wolves and bears are not overpolutation... I see no excuse for that.

09-26-2008, 05:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Sussi 7.7.86 - 18.6.09 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 30,260	Wolf History to Jolie's word "Would you vote for Palin to wolves"... Anyway, I find wolves's personality, life, etc fantastic and like to know about them so I create a new thread with new title "Wolf History". I am going to paste some of posts to response at "Would you vote for Palin"... Come and debate.... if you are interesting to know about wolf history... including control, protection, etc. __________________

09-26-2008, 07:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Sussi 7.7.86 - 18.6.09 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 30,260	History of Wolf Control in Alaska History of Wolf Control in Alaska - Defenders of Wildlife Alaska Wolves Background - Defenders of Wildlife Alaska Wildlife: Moose, bear, caribou, wolves moose statistics __________________

09-26-2008, 08:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
Grummer Burn fat off your soul Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North Island in the South Posts: 2,142	didnt realise you're an ardent animal activist, or at least you have given some values to animals, yay. __________________ It's like you go to the beach. It's a little cold. You're not sure you want to go in. There's a pretty girl standing next to you. She doesn't want to go in either. She sees you, and you know that if you just asked her her name, you would leave with her. Forget your life, whoever you came with, and leave the beach with her. And after that day, you remember. Not every day, every week... she comes back to you. It's the memory of another life you could have had. Today is that girl.

10-02-2008, 11:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
dreama deafblind vegan Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,580	Have you gone vegan lately? I don't like Palin's views on animal rights but Obama has nothing better to offer. Whilst all animal cruelty is wrong the worst is vivisection and factory farming. More animals are killed daily in factory farming and vivisection labs then then there are wolves and bears. I read an article about which is the most animal friendly party and neither of them look good. An animal rights protester asked OBama what he was going to do about animal rights and he says he's going to buy his daughter a pet dog. So in short Obama is going to do NOTHING about animal cruelty. I like Palin's stand against abortion. So at least she feels passionately about something wheras Obama gives me the creeps. __________________ I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. http://www.fightfoca.com/

10-15-2008, 03:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
dreama deafblind vegan Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,580	For what it's worth, I've heard that she does eat what she killed. She's got a freezer full of the stuff. I'm just saying what I heard. As a vegan I believe it is always wrong to kill (except in self defense or Euthanising a already dying animal) but of course wasteful killing is worse. I also think factory farming is the worse kind of killing since of the extra cruelties involved. The game Sarah Palin kills at least were free up until the time she killed them, but then again they might not have wanted to be killed in the first place but are better off for not being traumatised as factory farmed animals are before hand. __________________ I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. http://www.fightfoca.com/

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

10-15-2008, 12:10 PM	#18 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,431	If the animal is taken in a legitimate hunt but the hunter doesn't want it for food, they usually take it to the nearest locality and give it to the poor.

10-15-2008, 04:25 PM	#22 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,688	A haggis by any other name tastes just as sweet, lol.

10-15-2008, 08:12 PM	#25 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 19,265	Bear recipes: Bear Recipes

10-15-2008, 09:13 PM	#26 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,805	Why is it that the elections brings out the worst in us? LOL! __________________ "It's better to ask 100 questions than make 1 assumption."

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