How About Tolerance For All?

10-09-2003, 08:09 PM

A close, good friend of mine sent me this article. It made me think of Vice's burning of religious books several months ago.

bob lonsberry dot com

Quote:

HOW ABOUT TOLERANCE FOR ALL?

Some Muslims wear sacred clothing.

So do some Jews. The same for Native Americans and some Hindus and others.

Bits of cloth or string that are physical reminders of God and his bond with man. Sacred things, really. Prayer shawls or beads, head coverings or aprons, medicine bags. Things that are special to people, honorable and good things.

Things that should be respected.

One would not, for example, rip the yarmulke from a Jewish man’s head and mockingly fling it like a Frisbee. Nor would you wear a yarmulke as a spoof or joke. Certainly not as an attack on Judaism. Not as a mockery of Jews and their faith.

Yet something like that happened this weekend.

In front of thousands of people in one of America’s great cities. An act of religious desecration, bigotry and discrimination.

And the perpetrators boast of it to the press.

It was in Salt Lake City. And it was against Mormons.

And somehow that makes it acceptable.

Here’s what happened.

Over the weekend, Mormons gathered for what they call “general conference.” It is a twice-a-year meeting that draws tens of thousands to Salt Lake City and is broadcast around the world to an audience in the low millions. It is a worship service. It is sacred and special to them.

And each year it is protested.

So-called Christian evangelists stand on the sidewalk outside the Mormon meetings and shout rude condemnations of the religion to the thousands who pass in and out. It is an odd spectacle, unmatched in American society. To think that crude protesters would stand outside a mosque or synagogue, or a cathedral or church, and harass worshippers and denounce a religion is just beyond the pale.

It is an act of indefensible religious bigotry.

And yet it happens, and is often applauded and boasted of.

This column started with a mention of sacred clothing. Well, Mormons have sacred clothing, too. Like a variety of religious garments, it is worn against the skin. It is a type of underclothing. They don’t talk about it. They don’t show it to people. They keep it sacred. Like virtually all religious clothing, it is a specific reminder of promises made to God. Like virtually all religious clothing, it is precious and significant to the people who wear it.

Well, Sunday the evangelists had some.

Maybe six guys, Baptist ministers, mocking the Mormons as they came out of a meeting. Shouting rude things to people coming out of church.

And they had these sacred garments.

And one supposed minister of the gospel was wiping his backside with them, laughingly treating them like toilet paper as thousands who held them sacred walked by.

Can you see that being done to a prayer shawl in front of a synagogue, or a prayer rug in front of a mosque?

Wouldn’t that sacrilege be publicly denounced by all decent people?

He also draped them around his neck, and pretended over and over to sneeze into them. And loudly blow his nose into them. While families and children walked past.

Stop for a moment.

Lay aside what you do or don’t think about Mormons. But was that right? More to the point, was that Christian? Is that what Jesus would do? Is that what any decent person of any faith would do?

Absolutely not. It is wrong, bigoted and un-American. No matter who it’s against.

It was an affront. It smelled like the bigotry of the Klan and the Third Reich. And yet the ministers boasted of it to reporters and posed for pictures and no one in the Utah or American religious, media or civil rights communities has condemned it.

And, oddly, two worshippers were taken away in handcuffs.

One man, dressed in his church clothes, walked past in the crowd, saw the insults and desecrations, and grabbed the piece of clothing. To protect it. He was charged with robbery and taken to jail.

Half an hour later another worshipper similarly grabbed a molested garment and attempted to take it away. He was unsuccessful and waiting police stepped in to take him into custody.

And that’s the world we live in.

You are harangued for your beliefs and arrested for defending them.

And the bigotry of our society is illustrated by how selectively we practice tolerance.

- by Bob Lonsberry © 2003

bob lonsberry dot com

javapride · 10-09-2003, 08:38 PM

too many judgementality going on, too much racial issues too many reglious belifs too many hatred too many unjustified belifs and last but not least too many closed minded people,

where's the tolerance? theres none....... all they want to be is ruler of thier own relgious belifs rulers of the world thats so broke, too many terrioist who do this in the name of thier *god* too many just plain walking down self destructive paths that just does nothing but destroys us all! it's a sad cruel world!

and for them to charge with robbery? i think they just need to knock it off and leave it to the reglious poeple not for theft or for self rightgeousness, I think that that situation they had shouldn't have been held there in SLC no offense deaf258 i just think that poeple need to go to a NETURAL place not some place where it will spark up hatred or reglious issues!

10-09-2003, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javapride

i just think that poeple need to go to a NETURAL place not some place where it will spark up hatred or reglious issues!

No offense, but that's like telling the Jews to move their synagogues back to Middle East. It does not make any difference because there are no longer a neutral place anywhere on this planet for religious beliefs.

The Mormons tried that over 100 years ago. They moved West to avoid conflict and fighting about religious beliefs. I guess it didn't work, so why would it work again if the Mormons move it to another place?

CatoCooper13 · 10-09-2003, 09:47 PM

There will always be a lot of controversy surrounding all kinds of religions, no matter what is done to protect and do their religious events without any taunts and so forth.

javapride · 10-09-2003, 10:33 PM

tsk tsk that's like saying UR a fake human being, seems u like to hate poeple for thier comments thats showing the article in its right!

10-09-2003, 10:36 PM

Gee, Kalani.. I don't know what you are saying since I have you on ignore.. but it looks like you aren't making a good impression to those other ADers as well!

Tsk!

Tousi · 10-09-2003, 10:49 PM

Yup, Deaf258, Kalani missed the whole point of your article entirely! So sad.....

sablescort · 10-09-2003, 11:30 PM

I thought Christ preached "Love one other like a brother" or what...I gotta look at the Bible.

It's too much when there's no love lost among all religions. We got Arabs and Jews fighting over a sacred piece of land in the Middle East, then we have "Bush's Iraqi Crusade" going on in Iraq that is taking it too far then we have Muslims and Hindus fighting in India. It's a mess when all the major religions clash with each other

God, when will that crap stop?!

But I now know why civilization is being torn apart by religious differences.

Now that why I chose not to join any other religion so I can keep myself neutral and not have to choose sides and still keep my conscience.

10-10-2003, 12:26 AM

Ohh, Kalani got banned. How sad.

Not!!!

Back to topic.. I would NEVER disrespect another religion like that! I also would NEVER disrespect another person for being an atheist. End of the story, we all are human beings!

The Heretic · 10-10-2003, 01:59 AM

I want to weigh in but i can't find Kalani's posts. Were they deleted when he/she got banned?

10-10-2003, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Heretic

I want to weigh in but i can't find Kalani's posts. Were they deleted when he/she got banned?

Yup. Looks like Alex didn't like Kalani's attitude and games. Kalani got erased.

The Heretic · 10-10-2003, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf258

Yup. Looks like Alex didn't like Kalani's attitude and games. Kalani got erased.

So, i'm not on your ignore list after all.

SeattleDeafGrl · 10-10-2003, 04:39 AM

Wow....Deaf258, I am speechless of the article written by Bob.
It's really tremendous to see somebody write a straightforward article about Christians not being Christians for years. Yet we are blinded by the world we live in that we continue to use the bible as our "survivial bible" followed by God's words.

Yep, so to speak...we've seperated civilization by the difference of religions.

This article and other similar writings ought to be posted worldwide not what had happened on the U.S. soil nor on molested scared clothing but for our sakes.

10-10-2003, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Heretic

So, i'm not on your ignore list after all.

Depends on my mood.. LOL!

I unignored everyone else on this thread so I know what others say about threads started by me and what others say about Kalani. It was fun while it lasted.

pixelgecko · 10-10-2003, 05:28 PM

bottom line: what happened in salt lake city really should've not happened. i believe that mormons have every right (just like anyone else) to worship the way they believe they should, and it is our position - whether we're christians or non-believers, to step aside and let them practice their beliefs.

if somebody were to ask me questions about what christians believe in, i'd certainly take the opportunity to share (not shove) what christians believe to be the truth. it is still ultimately up to them to decide whether they want to accept that as the truth or not. but to go out against people? to me, that contradicts what Jesus taught. i don't want to end up sounding like a preacher, but if you read the Bible, you'll notice that Jesus spent most of his time around people who wanted to know the truth about life.

there are millions of people who feel like they're lost and are starving to know about Jesus. these are the people that christians really should be spending their time sharing Christ's love with, not engaging in a battle with those who disagree, trying to determine who holds the key to the truth.

just my 2-cents worth.

DeafSCUBA98 · 10-11-2003, 03:15 AM

i have this one huge question for ya all...

how many of you are proud american citizen? if so, why we, americans, are against other religon? who created this bill of rights? " Freedom of religon" If people are against other religon.. they should've move out of america and find a country where they have "Freedom of discrimate religon" who agrees with me here?

pixelgecko · 10-12-2003, 03:22 AM

i'm not quite sure that it's "americans against other religions". americans are in disagreement with each other over religion. it's not an issue of nationality (americans v.s. other countries) - sure, there are some countries with people that hate america, because they think we have "polluted that which is holy in the eyes of God". but i don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that we as americans are against other religion beliefs. in my opinion, america is one of the most tolerant countries when it comes to religion. america is one of a few countries where we can worship as we wish. other countries that live without the freedom to worship as they wish are the ones that are intolerant of religion, i think.

of course, we have problems with religion in our country, but i think it comes with the territory of the freedom that we have in our country. it's human nature, maybe, to be defensive of what we strongly believe in. when someone's most sacred beliefs are being threatened, maybe they just feel the need to lash out and defend their beliefs.

10-09-2003, 09:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
CatoCooper13 Am attached and in LOVE! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sonoma County, California Posts: 6,418	There will always be a lot of controversy surrounding all kinds of religions, no matter what is done to protect and do their religious events without any taunts and so forth. __________________ Til I hold my bub in my arms.

10-09-2003, 11:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
sablescort Tennessee Titans rocks :) Join Date: May 2003 Location: Found my way back home to Knoxville...heh! Posts: 2,923	I thought Christ preached "Love one other like a brother" or what...I gotta look at the Bible. It's too much when there's no love lost among all religions. We got Arabs and Jews fighting over a sacred piece of land in the Middle East, then we have "Bush's Iraqi Crusade" going on in Iraq that is taking it too far then we have Muslims and Hindus fighting in India. It's a mess when all the major religions clash with each other God, when will that crap stop?! But I now know why civilization is being torn apart by religious differences. Now that why I chose not to join any other religion so I can keep myself neutral and not have to choose sides and still keep my conscience. __________________ "Organized money hates me--and I welcome their hatred." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1882-1945) "I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." <--Harry S. Truman (1884-1972) Obama: FDR for the 21st Century...Bring on the New Deal II! <--Blackberry Storm addict since 11/21

10-10-2003, 01:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
The Heretic pope of deicide Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Neither here nor there Posts: 338	I want to weigh in but i can't find Kalani's posts. Were they deleted when he/she got banned? __________________ Self-esteem is cleverer than the cleverest person in the world.

10-10-2003, 05:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
pixelgecko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 8	bottom line: what happened in salt lake city really should've not happened. i believe that mormons have every right (just like anyone else) to worship the way they believe they should, and it is our position - whether we're christians or non-believers, to step aside and let them practice their beliefs. if somebody were to ask me questions about what christians believe in, i'd certainly take the opportunity to share (not shove) what christians believe to be the truth. it is still ultimately up to them to decide whether they want to accept that as the truth or not. but to go out against people? to me, that contradicts what Jesus taught. i don't want to end up sounding like a preacher, but if you read the Bible, you'll notice that Jesus spent most of his time around people who wanted to know the truth about life. there are millions of people who feel like they're lost and are starving to know about Jesus. these are the people that christians really should be spending their time sharing Christ's love with, not engaging in a battle with those who disagree, trying to determine who holds the key to the truth. just my 2-cents worth. Last edited by pixelgecko; 10-10-2003 at 05:31 PM.

10-11-2003, 03:15 AM	#16 (permalink)
DeafSCUBA98 my cute fish of the year! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: land of 10,000 lakes and living by one of them Posts: 4,627	i have this one huge question for ya all... how many of you are proud american citizen? if so, why we, americans, are against other religon? who created this bill of rights? " Freedom of religon" If people are against other religon.. they should've move out of america and find a country where they have "Freedom of discrimate religon" who agrees with me here? __________________ Nucleus Freedom 04/18/05 activiated 05/16/05

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

10-09-2003, 08:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
javapride Java's Big Island Life! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: hawaii Posts: 6,509	too many judgementality going on, too much racial issues too many reglious belifs too many hatred too many unjustified belifs and last but not least too many closed minded people, where's the tolerance? theres none....... all they want to be is ruler of thier own relgious belifs rulers of the world thats so broke, too many terrioist who do this in the name of thier god too many just plain walking down self destructive paths that just does nothing but destroys us all! it's a sad cruel world! and for them to charge with robbery? i think they just need to knock it off and leave it to the reglious poeple not for theft or for self rightgeousness, I think that that situation they had shouldn't have been held there in SLC no offense deaf258 i just think that poeple need to go to a NETURAL place not some place where it will spark up hatred or reglious issues!

10-09-2003, 10:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
javapride Java's Big Island Life! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: hawaii Posts: 6,509	tsk tsk that's like saying UR a fake human being, seems u like to hate poeple for thier comments thats showing the article in its right!

10-09-2003, 10:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
Deaf258 Guest Posts: n/a	Gee, Kalani.. I don't know what you are saying since I have you on ignore.. but it looks like you aren't making a good impression to those other ADers as well! Tsk!

10-09-2003, 10:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,249	Yup, Deaf258, Kalani missed the whole point of your article entirely! So sad.....

10-10-2003, 12:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
Deaf258 Guest Posts: n/a	Ohh, Kalani got banned. How sad. Not!!! Back to topic.. I would NEVER disrespect another religion like that! I also would NEVER disrespect another person for being an atheist. End of the story, we all are human beings!

10-10-2003, 04:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
SeattleDeafGrl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 102	Wow....Deaf258, I am speechless of the article written by Bob. It's really tremendous to see somebody write a straightforward article about Christians not being Christians for years. Yet we are blinded by the world we live in that we continue to use the bible as our "survivial bible" followed by God's words. Yep, so to speak...we've seperated civilization by the difference of religions. This article and other similar writings ought to be posted worldwide not what had happened on the U.S. soil nor on molested scared clothing but for our sakes.

10-12-2003, 03:22 AM	#17 (permalink)
pixelgecko Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 8	i'm not quite sure that it's "americans against other religions". americans are in disagreement with each other over religion. it's not an issue of nationality (americans v.s. other countries) - sure, there are some countries with people that hate america, because they think we have "polluted that which is holy in the eyes of God". but i don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that we as americans are against other religion beliefs. in my opinion, america is one of the most tolerant countries when it comes to religion. america is one of a few countries where we can worship as we wish. other countries that live without the freedom to worship as they wish are the ones that are intolerant of religion, i think. of course, we have problems with religion in our country, but i think it comes with the territory of the freedom that we have in our country. it's human nature, maybe, to be defensive of what we strongly believe in. when someone's most sacred beliefs are being threatened, maybe they just feel the need to lash out and defend their beliefs.

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