Racism?

***VamPyroX*** · 09-17-2003, 08:39 AM

Here at NTID, there are hispanic clubs, ebony clubs, asian clubs, and gay/lesbian clubs. Some of my friends brought up a few questions to the director of clubs. They asked if a white club or a straight club could be set up. The director said no because that was considered racism and sexist.

What's your opinion on this? Being white is a race. Being straight is a form of sexuality.

Fly Free · 09-17-2003, 08:45 AM

i agree it may sound like racism/sexism -- but if u looked at the overall picture -- other races are a minority same applies to the gay/lesbians -- the thought of setting up a white club would sound too strongly of white supremacy and in that i would think thats the big reason why they said no on founding a "white club" and with the history here in the USA ref to KKK and the Aryan Nations theyre afraid to have that founded and end up in a racial war among the students or faculty/staff

CatoCooper13 · 09-17-2003, 08:46 AM

Hmm...that's a good question -- really don't know the real answer for this. Perhaps someone else will enlighten you on this eventually. This really has made me think....strange that they would say it's racism if someone wanted to establish a straight or white club....whilst they allow ebony and so forth clubs to be set up. Maybe it's because they're more of the minority groups? Whites are the majority of the community. I reckon that'd be the reason.

***VamPyroX*** · 09-17-2003, 07:42 PM

There are times when it is strongly encouraged to have diversity in various organizations, jobs, and schools. I think it's good, but it's also important to find someone with good qualities. These days, anyone can get slammed with a lawsuit for not hiring minorities. I've heard of cases where blacks are not hired and whites are so they sue for discrimination. What if those whites happened to have the qualities that those companies are looking for... that the blacks didn't have? Should you really blame them for their race? No, blame their personal lives. I've seen other races sit around protesting cuz they won't be given jobs. Well, the whole week they've been protesting... they could have actually spent in looking for a job! The same goes for gays/lesbians. I've seen gays/lesbians who have great qualities and definitely would be great for various jobs. There are cases where gays sue a packaging company for not hiring them. Well, in the job description... applicants are expected to lift more than 25 lbs and the gay applicants who applied said that they couldn't so they weren't hired and a straight guy who interviewed after them got the job cuz he could lift 100 lbs.

Overall, I think that minorities are being stupid for wasting their time accusing others of discrimination, racism, and sexism... when they could actually use that time to put themselves to good use! Can you do the job? No? Then leave. Don't sue me cuz you're black or hispanic. Don't sue me cuz you're gay or a lesbian. Don't sue me cuz you're deaf.

DirtyOldMan · 09-17-2003, 07:52 PM

Maybe yes, because white or straight comes in large numbers than the others?

bbnt · 09-17-2003, 09:46 PM

Unfortunately The older generation that runs everything today is still racist. Many of the people that own businesses are in the 50's 60's, and 70's ,and were still alive when we had segregation. It wasn't that long ago when we had only 1 Black NFL quarterback.

I've seen many minorities get turned down for jobs just because of the color of there skin. Many parents today would cringe at the thought of there child dating or marrying someone outside there race.

Everyday at work I here comments degrading Mexicans , blacks ,Asians and others simply because of the color of there skin. The majority of minorities don't sue for discrimination but the ones that do will have people blaming all of them for it.

***VamPyroX*** · 09-18-2003, 01:42 AM

What if whites become a minority? Would trying to set up a whites club be considered racism?

***VamPyroX*** · 09-18-2003, 01:46 AM

I just found out that they might be setting up a cochlear implant club here at RIT! In that case, I think I'll set up a no-hearing-aid club! Does that mean I'm discriminating?

bbnt · 09-18-2003, 02:02 AM

Why were these clubs set up in the first place??? Maybe you should take a hard look at that.

***VamPyroX*** · 09-18-2003, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbnt

Why were these clubs set up in the first place??? Maybe you should take a hard look at that.

According to the flyers, it's to help those find better CI technology information and meet others who have CIs. If this keeps up, we'll have a bunch of students with CIs who stop signing... the end of ASL?

bbnt · 09-18-2003, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

According to the flyers, it's to help those find better CI technology information and meet others who have CIs. If this keeps up, we'll have a bunch of students with CIs who stop signing... the end of ASL?

So they set up a club to share information about specific needs related to CI's but you don't feel this shouldn't be allowed because you think it would be the end of ASL??

The Heretic · 09-18-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbnt

So they set up a club to share information about specific needs related to CI's but you don't feel this shouldn't be allowed because you think it would be the end of ASL??

Apparently.

Deaf fundamentalists are as bad as religious fanatics of any stripe - they think their culture is perfect, above and beyond the times, and needs no improvement.

Face it folks - technological advances spell the end of deaf culture. Hell, it has already started if you pay attention to the impact of medical science on preventing early deafness (spinal meningitis, etc) and its prohibitive effect on the hearing impaired population. Yes, that spells a dying breed.

In the future ASL will not be abandoned due to the rise of CI, but rather by the already-shrinking deaf population, and finally reduced to an academic curiosity.

If ancient Hebrew could be resuciated from the dead after a thousand years, then ASL can withstand technological advances no problem. But deaf culture on the other hand....

bbnt · 09-18-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Heretic

Apparently.

Deaf fundamentalists are as bad as religious fanatics of any stripe - they think their culture is perfect, above and beyond the times, and needs no improvement.

Face it folks - technological advances spell the end of deaf culture. Hell, it has already started if you pay attention to the impact of medical science on preventing early deafness (spinal meningitis, etc) and its prohibitive effect on the hearing impaired population. Yes, that spells a dying breed.

In the future ASL will not be abandoned due to the rise of CI, but rather by the already-shrinking deaf population, and finally reduced to an academic curiosity.

If ancient Hebrew could be resuciated from the dead after a thousand years, then ASL can withstand technological advances no problem. But deaf culture on the other hand....

Your OPINION has been noted

The Heretic · 09-18-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbnt

Your OPINION has been noted

Uh-huh.
FYI, I see a huge difference between opinion and knowledge. Opinion is generally uninformed, prejudiced and biased. Knowledge on the other hand is supported by facts and solid reasoning, and i like to delude myself that what i posted was much more than just mere opinion...

bbnt · 09-18-2003, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Heretic

Uh-huh.
FYI, I see a huge difference between opinion and knowledge. Opinion is generally uninformed, prejudiced and biased. Knowledge on the other hand is supported by facts and solid reasoning, and i like to delude myself that what i posted was much more than just mere opinion...

It is an opinion if your talking about something in the future that hasn't happened yet. If you would like to call it a educated opinion that is fine but it is still just a opinion

Liza · 09-18-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Heretic

Uh-huh.
FYI, I see a huge difference between opinion and knowledge. Opinion is generally uninformed, prejudiced and biased. Knowledge on the other hand is supported by facts and solid reasoning, and i like to delude myself that what i posted was much more than just mere opinion...

Hun, I am skeptic of your statements. ASL or other sign languages of the world will evolve even if it wont be preserved in its current state today. History has proved that. I think sign languages will be here for generations to come. Technological advances will be cool to behold, though. Maybe we'll rely only on telepathy with no need for sign language or voice!

opinion or educated prediction/guess.... but it is still an observation based on the environment and information available around you at the time. Hell, I don't know for sure. LOL I'm using long term patterns from history that have proven themselves again and again.

As for having "exclusive" clubs, it does help finding support from mutual situation or characteristics - but what about having people who have none of these but they are a boon and could be your bridges into making the world a better place for all? For instance, I am thankful that the gay and lesbian organization at gally has made me welcome - I have attended their parties and events, and they havent made me feel out of place just because I'm straight. I go there because I want to have fun and to show support for my friends. I had a sweet womyn telling me she was grateful that there is someone like me who cares. What a wonderful soul that one is! I don't let others talk trash about people's sexual orientation and happiness without letting them know of my feelings, not even my father.

The Heretic · 09-18-2003, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbnt

It is an opinion if your talking about something in the future that hasn't happened yet. If you would like to call it a educated opinion that is fine but it is still just a opinion

Educated opinion.. heh. I've never been impressed by arguments by assertion, and yers take the cake.

After all, meteorologists and economic forecasters know more about the subject than the average joe. Their educated guesses are generally better than the uninformed joe's opinions. If you want to reduce all guesses about the future to equal status, then that's your prerogative, but just saying so doesn't make it so.

bbnt · 09-18-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Heretic

Educated opinion.. heh. I've never been impressed by arguments by assertion, and yers take the cake.

After all, meteorologists and economic forecasters know more about the subject than the average joe. Their educated guesses are generally better than the uninformed joe's opinions. If you want to reduce all guesses about the future to equal status, then that's your prerogative, but just saying so doesn't make it so.

It just amazes me when they do those TV specials about what people in the past thought would happen in the future. All those intellectuals and all there mistakes are quite funny really. As far as those weathermen go they are always right when they say it's going rain aren't they?

The Heretic · 09-18-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Hun, I am skeptic of your statements. ASL or other sign languages of the world will evolve even if it wont be preserved in its current state today. History has proved that.

Hi Liza! What do you mean, 'history has proved that?' ASL is a relatively new language. After all if history is a blatant demonstration that languages evolve, that means some wither away and die off. No language will survive the winds of time - especially not English, and this is the most dominant language in the world today. What makes you think the language of a sub-culture will? I do advocate ASL or sign language, but not at the cost of potentially better means of communication. Wouldn't it be dogmatic otherwise?

Quote:

I think sign languages will be here for generations to come. Technological advances will be cool to behold, though. Maybe we'll rely only on telepathy with no need for sign language or voice!

Sign language is only a tool that helps us cope with the world Once we find other means of coping (and that will happen whether we want to or not) we will abandon sign language and leave it for the occasional curious yuppie with too much time on his/her hands. If nanotechnology or bioengineering ever gets beyond the speculative level of theorizing...

Quote:

opinion or educated prediction/guess.... but it is still an observation based on the environment and information available around you at the time. Hell, I don't know for sure. LOL I'm using long term patterns from history that have proven themselves again and again.

Could you be more specific with regards to history? I have very little patience with blanket statements.

The Heretic · 09-18-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbnt

It just amazes me when they do those TV specials about what people in the past thought would happen in the future. All those intellectuals and all there mistakes are quite funny really.

Yup, i get a belly laugh everytime we magnify the misses over the hits. After all they're funnier when they're wrong, right? Try again.

Quote:

As far as those weathermen go they are always right when they say it's going rain aren't they?

Their guesses are better, not always right. Check yourself.

Liza · 09-18-2003, 04:31 PM

H, of course I would not have expected nothing less of you. It is a blanket statement as much as it is an opinion formed on the current information and observation I have. I couldn't even begin to summarize all of the info I have in one post, and I still say I don't claim to know what the future will bring us.. I can only claim guesses to the best of my capacities. Good term, though! I appreciate the request for more details beyond a blanket statement where history and its patterns are concerned.

The first "recorded" account of using sign language starts with Juan Pablo Bonet who believed that deaf people should use fingerspelling before learning to speak and lipread, and it sure wasn't ASL. We are taught that Laurent Clerc and Gallaudet taught deaf people French sign language, and that langauge mutated into what we know as American Sign language. It is also known by Norway that the Norwegian sign language (or norsk tegnspråk) is influenced by french language through the occupation of the Danes so I was able to note some similarities between ASL and NSL in person. So I have come to my conclusion that sign language has a strong possibility of evolving if not completely eradicated with the use of technology down to a memory and academic curiousity. Of course, only time will tell! Feel free to do further research beyond this, and refer to other sources. I bet there are other self-proclaimed historians here who may want to add something. Personally, I am not worried about eradicating deaf culture or any other culture completely since there are always something to learn from every culture, even if it doesn't exist any longer. Think Mayans!

http://members.aol.com/deafcultureinfo/deaf_history.htm

(Psst I still favor telepathy over everything.)

Now we are getting a bit off topic, and I had fun doing that - Vampy started a thread on minorities having exclusive clubs/organizations by questioning the validity of having any at all.

I inserted another perspective on having such clubs - with the flexibility of welcoming people who are different and they can give unconditional support and perhaps even new insights- and participate by spreading awareness about the club's uniqueness to promote respect and tolerance.

***VamPyroX*** · 09-18-2003, 04:55 PM

You're right. ASL will very likely be around for years to come. The Hebrew language has been around for years too. Now, it's becoming a dying language. ASL started not long ago... and it too could become a dying language. I'm sure it won't happen while I'm still alive.

***VamPyroX*** · 09-18-2003, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liza

I inserted another perspective on having such clubs - with the flexibility of welcoming people who are different and they can give unconditional support and perhaps even new insights- and participate by spreading awareness about the club's uniqueness to promote respect and tolerance.

Well, from what I know... you have to be part of that race in order to be part of their executive board. Also, not many organizations really do much for the community except for their own kind while most major student organizations and Greek do more for the community. Statistically, out of over 120 organizations here at RIT... more than half of the community service has been contributed by Greeks along. There are only 24 Greek organizations and over 100 non-Greek organizations. About 20 Greek organizations encourage diversity while most non-Greek organizations encourage their own "kind". Even I don't feel welcome to participated or attend in any of the other multi-cultural organization events.

DirtyOldMan · 09-18-2003, 05:30 PM

*Looking around* Very well said here by you, people.
I'm always an observant.
It's simply being made by those people from long, long time ago. Oh well, I don't care about clubs or anything. Just what might have caught my attention to meddle around. About what I have to say about some issues, I prefer to keep it to myself.

09-17-2003, 08:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 27,867	Racism? Here at NTID, there are hispanic clubs, ebony clubs, asian clubs, and gay/lesbian clubs. Some of my friends brought up a few questions to the director of clubs. They asked if a white club or a straight club could be set up. The director said no because that was considered racism and sexist. What's your opinion on this? Being white is a race. Being straight is a form of sexuality. __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

09-17-2003, 08:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
CatoCooper13 Am attached and in LOVE! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sonoma County, California Posts: 6,418	Hmm...that's a good question -- really don't know the real answer for this. Perhaps someone else will enlighten you on this eventually. This really has made me think....strange that they would say it's racism if someone wanted to establish a straight or white club....whilst they allow ebony and so forth clubs to be set up. Maybe it's because they're more of the minority groups? Whites are the majority of the community. I reckon that'd be the reason. __________________ Til I hold my bub in my arms.

09-17-2003, 07:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 27,867	There are times when it is strongly encouraged to have diversity in various organizations, jobs, and schools. I think it's good, but it's also important to find someone with good qualities. These days, anyone can get slammed with a lawsuit for not hiring minorities. I've heard of cases where blacks are not hired and whites are so they sue for discrimination. What if those whites happened to have the qualities that those companies are looking for... that the blacks didn't have? Should you really blame them for their race? No, blame their personal lives. I've seen other races sit around protesting cuz they won't be given jobs. Well, the whole week they've been protesting... they could have actually spent in looking for a job! The same goes for gays/lesbians. I've seen gays/lesbians who have great qualities and definitely would be great for various jobs. There are cases where gays sue a packaging company for not hiring them. Well, in the job description... applicants are expected to lift more than 25 lbs and the gay applicants who applied said that they couldn't so they weren't hired and a straight guy who interviewed after them got the job cuz he could lift 100 lbs. Overall, I think that minorities are being stupid for wasting their time accusing others of discrimination, racism, and sexism... when they could actually use that time to put themselves to good use! Can you do the job? No? Then leave. Don't sue me cuz you're black or hispanic. Don't sue me cuz you're gay or a lesbian. Don't sue me cuz you're deaf. __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

09-18-2003, 01:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 27,867	What if whites become a minority? Would trying to set up a whites club be considered racism? __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

09-18-2003, 01:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 27,867	I just found out that they might be setting up a cochlear implant club here at RIT! In that case, I think I'll set up a no-hearing-aid club! Does that mean I'm discriminating? __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

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09-17-2003, 08:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Fly Free Just me Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Wherever i want to be LOL Posts: 9,101	i agree it may sound like racism/sexism -- but if u looked at the overall picture -- other races are a minority same applies to the gay/lesbians -- the thought of setting up a white club would sound too strongly of white supremacy and in that i would think thats the big reason why they said no on founding a "white club" and with the history here in the USA ref to KKK and the Aryan Nations theyre afraid to have that founded and end up in a racial war among the students or faculty/staff

09-17-2003, 07:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
DirtyOldMan is as dirty as ever! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tulip town Posts: 618	Maybe yes, because white or straight comes in large numbers than the others?

09-17-2003, 09:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
bbnt King of all I see Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,513	Unfortunately The older generation that runs everything today is still racist. Many of the people that own businesses are in the 50's 60's, and 70's ,and were still alive when we had segregation. It wasn't that long ago when we had only 1 Black NFL quarterback. I've seen many minorities get turned down for jobs just because of the color of there skin. Many parents today would cringe at the thought of there child dating or marrying someone outside there race. Everyday at work I here comments degrading Mexicans , blacks ,Asians and others simply because of the color of there skin. The majority of minorities don't sue for discrimination but the ones that do will have people blaming all of them for it.

09-18-2003, 02:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
bbnt King of all I see Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,513	Why were these clubs set up in the first place??? Maybe you should take a hard look at that.

09-18-2003, 04:31 PM	#21 (permalink)
Liza Cranial protocologist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St Augustine, FL Posts: 4,189 Blog Entries: 2	H, of course I would not have expected nothing less of you. It is a blanket statement as much as it is an opinion formed on the current information and observation I have. I couldn't even begin to summarize all of the info I have in one post, and I still say I don't claim to know what the future will bring us.. I can only claim guesses to the best of my capacities. Good term, though! I appreciate the request for more details beyond a blanket statement where history and its patterns are concerned. The first "recorded" account of using sign language starts with Juan Pablo Bonet who believed that deaf people should use fingerspelling before learning to speak and lipread, and it sure wasn't ASL. We are taught that Laurent Clerc and Gallaudet taught deaf people French sign language, and that langauge mutated into what we know as American Sign language. It is also known by Norway that the Norwegian sign language (or norsk tegnspråk) is influenced by french language through the occupation of the Danes so I was able to note some similarities between ASL and NSL in person. So I have come to my conclusion that sign language has a strong possibility of evolving if not completely eradicated with the use of technology down to a memory and academic curiousity. Of course, only time will tell! Feel free to do further research beyond this, and refer to other sources. I bet there are other self-proclaimed historians here who may want to add something. Personally, I am not worried about eradicating deaf culture or any other culture completely since there are always something to learn from every culture, even if it doesn't exist any longer. Think Mayans! http://members.aol.com/deafcultureinfo/deaf_history.htm (Psst I still favor telepathy over everything.) Now we are getting a bit off topic, and I had fun doing that - Vampy started a thread on minorities having exclusive clubs/organizations by questioning the validity of having any at all. I inserted another perspective on having such clubs - with the flexibility of welcoming people who are different and they can give unconditional support and perhaps even new insights- and participate by spreading awareness about the club's uniqueness to promote respect and tolerance.

09-18-2003, 04:55 PM	#22 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 27,867	You're right. ASL will very likely be around for years to come. The Hebrew language has been around for years too. Now, it's becoming a dying language. ASL started not long ago... and it too could become a dying language. I'm sure it won't happen while I'm still alive. __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

09-18-2003, 05:30 PM	#24 (permalink)
DirtyOldMan is as dirty as ever! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tulip town Posts: 618	Looking around Very well said here by you, people. I'm always an observant. It's simply being made by those people from long, long time ago. Oh well, I don't care about clubs or anything. Just what might have caught my attention to meddle around. About what I have to say about some issues, I prefer to keep it to myself.