shel90

My mom said that back in those days when abortion was illegal, if the patients who sought out illegal abortion, they run the risk of being prosecuted along with the doctors who performed them. That's why I think it is not a good idea to make abortion illegal again cuz you would have more people breaking the laws again along with people performing them in unsanitary conditions. People will do what they have to do in dire situations even risking jail or death. I cant imagine being in a situation like that.

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~Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

Deafness

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Liebling:-)))

Yes, that´s right Shel90.

Another scandal at few weeks ago about mother who put newborns in freezer at over 20 years ago, that´s time abortion was illegal.

The parents went away for the weekends and leave 3 adult children alone to take care of house... until one day 2 of 3 children were hungry and want to get pizza out from freezer... They saw many "out of dated" frozen foods in that freezer and thought to themselves... why should we put those old foods as supply... no way, they were about clean the things... until one of them spotted tiny hand in the frozen plastic bag and saw tiny newborn... it look like that it was just born.... They waited until the parents back from long weekends and then confronted them with tiny babies. It was 20 years old... Father know nothing... and shock... Mother went to police station.... scandal.... It´s unbeleivable that she kept dead newborn for long 20 years... nobody notice it until few weeks ago.

The abortion law was illegal and make a lot of German travelled to Holland to rid of fetus illegally... The lawmaker saw and make the law loose... to be restriction... They are allow to abort up to 12 weeks but they have to pay abortion cost out of their pocket, not Health Insurance companies. Health Insurance companies only cover for severe reasons... After 12 weeks, they are allow to abort due medical reasons like life threatening, etc. It´s their decision to bury fetus or not...

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jillio

Exactly. No consistency in belief systems or ethical stances. In other words, totally hypocritical and self righteous.

jillio

That is the whole point. To make abortion illegal will not stop it. It will only result in more deaths of women at the hands of the illegal practitioners.

jillio

The difference is, Cheri, that I have always said that CI is an individual choice that no one should make for another, and that is the same stance I take on abortion. You, on the other hand, state specifically that elective abortion should be illegal. If I stated that elective CI should be illegal, that would make me anti-CI, the same as you are anti-abortion.

You are the one that made the statement regarding your position on elective abortion, and then refuse to even take personal responsibility for your own position.

shel90

Right..while the idea of speaking up for unborn babies is very novel but in practice it won't work cuz people are going to say " screw u! It is my body and my life, iam gonna do what I want to do whether illegal or not."

Point is, nobody wins if abortion was made illegal cuz it won't stop it so what has been gained?

Was the point to make it illegal to end it? If so, then good luck in trying to make it an actual reality.

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~Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

jillio

In that case, in light of the edit, you have the right to claim pro-life status. You are not supportive of abortion or the death penalty. You are consistent.

jillio

It provides some people with a false sense of having "saved" a life, when in reality, more lives will be lost than before. If they were truly concerned, they'd spend more time educating themselves on the reality of the situation, and less time trying to force their values on others.

Cheri

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jillio

That's the whole point, jiro. You cannot claim an all encompassing life philosophy if you adjust that philosophy to fit your needs. You must claim your stance based on the issue. You can say, "I'm against abortion but for the death penalty", and that would be an accurrate portrayal of your stance. But to claim "pro-life" to describe that stance is totally innaccurate, and in reality, nothing more than a hypocritical attempt to make your position sound less distasteful.. The point being, it does not matter what stance you take; at least have the courage to own up to what you actually believe instead of attempting to make it sound like some nobel cause.

Cheri

Let's discuss the reality. Abortion vs. Death penalty comparison seems ridiculous. Those two issues a different angle entirely different.. I think it is because you who say the two are the same have no logical way to make that claim.

For death penalty, is putting people to death based on being judged after committed certain extremely crimes, When they are sentence to death, they usually sit on death row for many years and get many chances for appeal.

For abortion, The mothers puts her own wants above the baby's needs, and terminated her pregnancy it's like saying an unwanted baby was better off dead. However, the baby in the womb has done no wrong yet it is executed. It's wrong and this is why abortion is wrong, nothing more nothing less. Pro-choicers would say life in the womb isn't human. If that was true, you wouldn't see the head, the legs and the arms.

It's not hypocritical at all.

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jillio

They are not separate issues when they are discussed in the light of a pro-life stance. If you claim that life is sacred, then you cannot qualify that to mean only the life which you deem to be sacred.

To say that life is sacred in one instance, but is expendable in another instance is indeed hypocritical.

Pepsi

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Cheri

ha ha!! I'll say the same about you, It's hypocritical to kill an unborn baby, but let a murderer live at the same time.

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Jiro

well - that is a very black and white stance to me. Since you're a very passionated pro-life... are you also vegetarian? do you also not support merciful euthanasia of dying old dogs? Do you not support abortion even if a woman's life is in danger of death by childbirth or a traumatized woman who do not wish to deliver a rapist's baby as this will put a deep emotional scar in her for life?

Your stance implies to me that you a very leftist.... and a Democrat and a very anti-everything - anti-gun, anti-d.p., anti-meat, anti-etc. But that's not fair, right? You cannot conveniently label us and make us abide by it for all issues.

Not really. It's just the matter of being balanced on all issues, weighing benefits. That's why we're saying there's no one answer for all. Life is complicated - many variables, many justifications. A man brutally raped and murdered 2 young girls with no remorse. Logically - that man is extremely dangerous to society and will kill again. Death penalty is a logical and sensible choice. A mother who was raped and was later pregnant. She does not wish to deliver this child as it will constantly remind her about rape and she is not in financial position to support the child. Abortion is a logical and humane choice.

It is typical of extremists and people living in urban society to lack understanding of balancing the life. They claim it is cruel and unjust to cull animals and conveniently choose to ignore the fact that animal overpopulation is causing imbalance in ecosystem. Point is - everything has balance and sensible & reasonable judgment is needed, not one principle for all. That's what Lady Justice represents.

jillio

But I don't claim to be pro-life. I claim to be pro-choice, and anti-death penalty. So it is not hypocritical at all. I state my position on each topic clearly, and do not attempt to lump my views on each into one ethical stance. Nor can you find a single solitary post where I said that I would make the personal decision to have an abortion. You will only find where I have stated that, no matter what my personal decision would be, every woman has the right to decide for themselves whether it is in agreement with my values or not.

You, on the other hand, claim to be pro-life. If you stated that you were anti-abortion and pro-death penalty, there wouldn't be a contradiction in your statement. However, you do not claim that; you claim to be pro-life...hence the hypocricy in your stance.

jillio

You need to go back and refresh yourself by reading the posts. I have never claimed to be pro-life. That would be Cheri's claim. I claim the stance of pro-choice and anti-death penalty. Please see my post above for clarification.

If you are going to weigh all issues, then you need to state your position on all issues, as separate entities. To claim a pro-life stance as an ethical foundation is incorrect.

Cheri

Did I say anything about you being Pro-life? Look how hypocritical to be pro-abortion and anti-death penalty; You are so convicted that murderers hold more value than babies. It just shows that you defend murderers, pedophiles, rapists and etc.

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Jiro

My post was meant to be rhetorical.

jillio

No, what you said was that my position was hypocritical, and I simply expalined to you how it was consistent.

Shows nothing of the kind.

jillio

Okay.

KarissaMann05

Agreed. It's plain wrong to force.

But, keep that mind, not all pro-lifers are like that..

I just wish *some* pro-lifers have some more common sense..

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Credit by KarissaMann05

KarissaMann05

Okay, thanks for remind me.
Bond font - Yep.I don't feel any offend yet. Heh. I enjoy debates as well.

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Credit by KarissaMann05

CrzyMeg