Pro-choice and death).....(only pro-choice and death comment)

Cowpuppy · 04-21-2008, 10:36 AM

OK...let start a Pro-choice topic and death topic and ask pro-lifers to stay out of it......
My prediction is that they won't stay out of it as they find it to be thier sacred duty given first hand by higher power to interfere in others lives.
Pro-choicers did fairly well in staying out of the pro-life topic posted. Or posted respectfully.
Myself........a woman has a right. It is her life. It is her body. First trimester only.
Vegan? a bit of a stretch....believe 'higher power' created for purpose of feed also. Animals eat each other as a survival tactic. As part of earth's beauty. There's a balance in nature. Animal cruelty out.
Death penalty? ....complicated.....reserved for the worst and 100% proof and without costly appeals delays. A cheaper appeals processing. Those who want to live in prison for life and kill a guard any chance they get deserve to die. etc etc. I don't want to pay for this scenario.

Liebling:-))) · 04-21-2008, 11:09 AM

The reason why I consider myself as a pro-choice, not pro-life because I am not fully pro-lifer.

I support women´s choice for keep, abort or give child up for an adoption and life-threatening. If women decides for abortion then do it EARLY than late. I´m against partial birth abortion.

I am against death penalty because it´s not right punishment but a vengeance. It teachs okay to kill...

I am against for attack other country to make a war because it teachs okay to kill. I am for defend our country against attackers because it teachs okay to self-defense.

I am a meat-eater.

I support Assisted Suicide/Euthanasia to save people suffering ONLY if they WANT to.

I also support Euthanasia to save the pets suffering as well.

It make no sense if I claim that I am a pro-lifer... It means that I am pro-lifer if I am against abortion, death penatly, war, assisted suicide, euthanasia, etc.

Some pro-lifers claim that they are pro-life when they support death penalty and against abortion.

jillio · 04-21-2008, 11:36 AM

I agree with your last statement. You cannot be pro-life and support the death penalty. If life is sacred, then you object to killing another human being, period. However, you can be pro-choice and pro-life at the same time. You are simply saying that life already in existence (the pregnant woman) takes precedence of the possibility of life (an embryo). The pregnant woman is already living life as defined by the concept of viability. If you are pro-life, then the life of the pregnant woman is a primary concern. To place lesser value on her life simply because she has a possibiltity of producing that which, once born, could be an independent viable life is to disregard pro-life philsophies.

Likewise, to claim to be pro-life, and then to take the life of those who work in clinics that offer abortions is decidely not pro-life, as you are placing the possibility of life at a greater value than life in existence. You are making a moral value judgement on who deserves to continue living and who doesn't. Anytime you qaulify who deserves to live and who doesn't, you have drastically departed from the pro-life stance you claim to have.

Physician assisted suicide is not in conflict with true pro-life principles, either. It is stating that the individual has the right to make the decisions regarding their own life, but not the life of others. Likewise with the death penalty.

Cowpuppy · 04-21-2008, 12:08 PM

As I had noted in other post.....I respect the consistency noted by said poster. I find the pro-lifers who seek death penalty to be self-serving. Hypocrisy.

Children need nutrients-vitamins more easily derived from meat products.

Assisted suicide.....mmmmm....a moral issue. difficult.

But my view is that starving self......or refusing medical attention..... is not suicide. It is not an active act. It is a passive act. Not actually doing something active to make suicide happen.
In my mind it is a method to become one with nature and higher spirit.
Fasting is noted in many religions as making us closer to spirit. Denying self just a more extreme measure of this. A road to spirituality. In one with nature, too.

jillio · 04-21-2008, 01:38 PM

Agreed. It has been my observation that those who have adopted the "I'm pro-life" stance as an argument in the abortion debate, are actually not pro-life at all, as defined by pro-life philosophies, but are simply "anti-choice". But pro-life sounds much better on the surface, as it much more noble sounding than "anit-choice."

Likewise with supporters of the death penalty. Their very foundation is that no one has the right to take the life of another, yet they are perfectly comfortable with engaging in execution by proxy under the guise of "punishment."

deafdyke · 04-22-2008, 03:19 AM

Personly, I'm pro-life for myself, but prochoice for everyone else.
I would never have an abortion, but I'm not gonna stand in line and scream that someone else shouldn't have one.
I do think that we could reduce the abortion problem by: forcing insurance companies to cover GOOD quality effective birth control, making the morning after pill over the counter, promoting good healthy relationship training (like a lot of girls seem to be very brainless when it comes to relationships. I remember reading a Teen People mag where a girl said that she had sex with someone, b/c she was afraid that if she didn't boys wouldn't like her any more) I also think that parents of potential special needs kids really need to be counseled. Most info out there on the various and sundry disabilites is so out of date, its not even funny!
I'm against the death penalty in most cases, but I do think that there ARE some cases where the death penalty is justified. There are people out there who are just PURE evil, and who will never ever be rehabilitated.
I also think that some people have been brainwashed into thinking that ALL abortion is evil. What about if the mom has an etopic pregnancy? (a condition where the sperm fertilizes the egg in the fallopian tube. This is a condition, that if not treated KILLS) What about if a baby's died in utereo?
What if it has a 100% fatal condition? (like anacephely)

PuyoPiyo · 04-22-2008, 03:41 AM

I personally are pro-life just like DeafDyke, but I still don't feel fair for me to vote against other's opinion and rights. I prefer to leave people's rights alone or they will turn into rebel and criminals, which are not fair.

Cheri · 04-22-2008, 06:33 AM

Those who are pro-choicers giving mothers right to aborted a child is like it's okay to kill an innocent child, but are against the death penalty, it's like spare the life of the criminals but kill the innocents.

I'm pro-lifer, the right for innocents to have life, and pro-justice the right for the death penalty of criminals who do not deserve a life, dangerous criminals never expressed remorse for their actions, so they don’t deserve mercy.

jillio · 04-22-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Personly, I'm pro-life for myself, but prochoice for everyone else.
I would never have an abortion, but I'm not gonna stand in line and scream that someone else shouldn't have one.
I do think that we could reduce the abortion problem by: forcing insurance companies to cover GOOD quality effective birth control, making the morning after pill over the counter, promoting good healthy relationship training (like a lot of girls seem to be very brainless when it comes to relationships. I remember reading a Teen People mag where a girl said that she had sex with someone, b/c she was afraid that if she didn't boys wouldn't like her any more) I also think that parents of potential special needs kids really need to be counseled. Most info out there on the various and sundry disabilites is so out of date, its not even funny!
I'm against the death penalty in most cases, but I do think that there ARE some cases where the death penalty is justified. There are people out there who are just PURE evil, and who will never ever be rehabilitated.
I also think that some people have been brainwashed into thinking that ALL abortion is evil. What about if the mom has an etopic pregnancy? (a condition where the sperm fertilizes the egg in the fallopian tube. This is a condition, that if not treated KILLS) What about if a baby's died in utereo?
What if it has a 100% fatal condition? (like anacephely)

That would make you pro-choice. You have chosen a pro-life position for yourself, and support that every other individual has the right to make that same choice for themselves. That's what people don't seem to understand. Being pro-choice does not necessarily mean that your personal moral values would allow you to ever have an abortion, but that you understand that it is everyone's right to choose what they can and cannot accept for themselves on this issue, and you have no right to impose your moral values or your religious views regarding abortion on others.

jillio · 04-22-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Those who are pro-choicers giving mothers right to aborted a child is like it's okay to kill an innocent child, but are against the death penalty, it's like spare the life of the criminals but kill the innocents.

I'm pro-lifer, the right for innocents to have life, and pro-justice the right for the death penalty of criminals who do not deserve a life, dangerous criminals never expressed remorse for their actions, so they don’t deserve mercy.

Pro-choicers are saying nothing of the kind. What they are saying is that the abortion issue is an individual choice, and they have no right to judge the values or the religious beliefs of another. Supporting individual choice is not equivalent to supporting abortion on a personal level. It is supporting individual choice in moral matters.

Regarding the death penalty, it is not for us to judge who deserves to live and who doesn't. Decisions such as that make us no better than the murderer who decided that his victim, for whatever reason, did not deserve to live.

Cheri · 04-22-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Pro-choicers are saying nothing of the kind. What they are saying is that the abortion issue is an individual choice, and they have no right to judge the values or the religious beliefs of another. Supporting individual choice is not equivalent to supporting abortion on a personal level. It is supporting individual choice in moral matters.

Regarding the death penalty, it is not for us to judge who deserves to live and who doesn't. Decisions such as that make us no better than the murderer who decided that his victim, for whatever reason, did not deserve to live.

For the sake of argument, Pro-choice means in favor of a woman's right to choose to terminates a human life, it's the same as giving permission to kill an innocent human being so therefore, you are artificially destroying a human life.

And for regarding against the death penalty in your eyes and others it is morally wrong under all circumstances, and should just get life in prison.

From what it seems to me after reading the death penalty thread and this thread is that it is acceptable to kill innocent babies, but murderers should be protected.

KarissaMann05 · 04-22-2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That would make you pro-choice. You have chosen a pro-life position for yourself, and support that every other individual has the right to make that same choice for themselves. That's what people don't seem to understand. Being pro-choice does not necessarily mean that your personal moral values would allow you to ever have an abortion, but that you understand that it is everyone's right to choose what they can and cannot accept for themselves on this issue, and you have no right to impose your moral values or your religious views regarding abortion on others.

Ah, are you expect us, prolifers, should ignore women's risk health cos we "don't care" about theirs? No, I respectfully disagree.

I believe in a prolife support various future plans for improvement things; reducing women's risk healths; fix the nature; such thing positive things. Ofc, they don't suppose legal abortion, myself as non-traditional prolifer, I don't support illegal or legal abortion either.

That's not make me less prolife however.

Just sayin'.

shel90 · 04-22-2008, 07:12 PM

I guess that would make me pro-choice as it is not my place to tell other women what to do with their bodies. I am like Deafdyke..I am pro-life for myself, meaning I wouldnt get an abortion unless my life is in danger but i believe that every woman should have the rights to making their own decisions about their personal lives. Doesnt mean I have to like it.

Death penalty..I am on the fence about that one.

Vegan..I am with Cowpuppy on that one.

Byrdie714 · 04-22-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Pro-choicers are saying nothing of the kind. What they are saying is that the abortion issue is an individual choice, and they have no right to judge the values or the religious beliefs of another. Supporting individual choice is not equivalent to supporting abortion on a personal level. It is supporting individual choice in moral matters.

Regarding the death penalty, it is not for us to judge who deserves to live and who doesn't. Decisions such as that make us no better than the murderer who decided that his victim, for whatever reason, did not deserve to live.

"Thou shall not kill" is a moral matter.

So it's okay for a woman to kill an unborn but not okay to execute a man that kills 48 women?

Cowpuppy · 04-22-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Those who are pro-choicers giving mothers right to aborted a child is like it's okay to kill an innocent child, but are against the death penalty, it's like spare the life of the criminals but kill the innocents.

I'm pro-lifer, the right for innocents to have life, and pro-justice the right for the death penalty of criminals who do not deserve a life, dangerous criminals never expressed remorse for their actions, so they don’t deserve mercy.

That may be your personal opinion-decision.
but mostly the conservative/religious pro-lifers.....don't claim to 'protect the innocent'.......thier battle cry is.....'sanctity of life'.....preciousness of life itself........that implies the worst of criminals as well as unborn innocents. They can't have it both ways. Hence, religious leaders don't believe in death penalty....but some self-righteous conservatives do. Such as Bush. Self serving scaredy cats. Nicey nice killers. Self-righteous killers.
I believe in death penalty but I don't claim to be conservative.

Cowpuppy · 04-22-2008, 07:23 PM

Perhaps someday I will change my death penalty stance...I would like to.....but I have too many personal experiences as a former investigator of filthy dirtbags.....whom wished to snuff me out....I was hunted like a dog for years...so it's a biased choice for me.

KarissaMann05 · 04-22-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowpuppy

That may be your personal opinion-decision.
but mostly the conservative/religious pro-lifers.....don't claim to 'protect the innocent'.......thier battle cry is.....'sanctity of life'.....preciousness of life itself........that implies the worst of criminals as well as unborn innocents. They can't have it both ways. Hence, religious leaders don't believe in death penalty....but some self-righteous conservatives do. Such as Bush. Self serving scaredy cats. Nicey nice killers. Self-righteous killers.
I believe in death penalty but I don't claim to be conservative.

Not all prolifers are religions or christians, not all prochoicers are nonreligion/atietsts.

PuyoPiyo · 04-22-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

I don't support illegal or legal abortion either.

That's not make me less prolife however.

Just sayin'.

*nods* Same here, I would rather to be neutral and don't vote legal or illegal on the abortion, but I don't feel less-prolife because of it at all because I am against the abortion based on my preferrance

jillio · 04-22-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

For the sake of argument, Pro-choice means in favor of a woman's right to choose to terminates a human life, it's the same as giving permission to kill an innocent human being so therefore, you are artificially destroying a human life.

And for regarding against the death penalty in your eyes and others it is morally wrong under all circumstances, and should just get life in prison.

From what it seems to me after reading the death penalty thread and this thread is that it is acceptable to kill innocent babies, but murderers should be protected.

No, pro-choice does not give anyone the right to terminate a human life. What it does is allow a woman to decide for herself whether she subscribes to the religious view of life begins at conception, or if she chooses to follow the medical and scientific definition that is founded on the concept of viability. And once she has made that choice, she is also free to decide how she will reconcile these values with the issue of abortion, for herself. She has every right to do that. She does not have the right, however, to force others to subscribe to her particular belief. Those who are not pro-choice are making a decision not just for themselves, but for others, as well. They not only choose not to have an abortion themselves, but tell others that they can't. Pro-choices, however, tell no one that they must have an abortion. They don't seek to pass laws that would force anyone to do anything. They say whether you choose to have an abortion or not is not the issue. That you have the freedom to decide that for yourself is the issue.

Babies are protected. If one kills a baby, one suffers the penalty. Under the law, it is not a baby until it is born, because the law uses the cocept of viability. It is your choice as to whether you accept the legal definition or not. You are not forced to accept it in your own personal value system. However, if you want the right not to accept it, then you have to allow others the right to accept it, if it is their choice.

jillio · 04-22-2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

"Thou shall not kill" is a moral matter.

So it's okay for a woman to kill an unborn but not okay to execute a man that kills 48 women?

See post #19. It will answer this question as well.

jillio · 04-22-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowpuppy

That may be your personal opinion-decision.
but mostly the conservative/religious pro-lifers.....don't claim to 'protect the innocent'.......thier battle cry is.....'sanctity of life'.....preciousness of life itself........that implies the worst of criminals as well as unborn innocents. They can't have it both ways. Hence, religious leaders don't believe in death penalty....but some self-righteous conservatives do. Such as Bush. Self serving scaredy cats. Nicey nice killers. Self-righteous killers.
I believe in death penalty but I don't claim to be conservative.

There it is....that contradiction.

shel90 · 04-22-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

There it is....that contradiction.

I dont see the contradiction..either I am brain dead or I dont agree with u.

jillio · 04-22-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I dont see the contradiction..either I am brain dead or I dont agree with u.

Arguing the sanctity of life with one hand, and supporting killing in our justice system. If they truly believe in the sanctity of life, then it applies to all human life, including the criminal.

shel90 · 04-22-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Arguing the sanctity of life with one hand, and supporting killing in our justice system. If they truly believe in the sanctity of life, then it applies to all human life, including the criminal.

Thanks for clarifying...hmm I will have to think on that one.

KarissaMann05 · 04-22-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

04-21-2008, 10:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
Cowpuppy Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On The Road Again Posts: 375	Pro-choice and death).....(only pro-choice and death comment) OK...let start a Pro-choice topic and death topic and ask pro-lifers to stay out of it...... My prediction is that they won't stay out of it as they find it to be thier sacred duty given first hand by higher power to interfere in others lives. Pro-choicers did fairly well in staying out of the pro-life topic posted. Or posted respectfully. Myself........a woman has a right. It is her life. It is her body. First trimester only. Vegan? a bit of a stretch....believe 'higher power' created for purpose of feed also. Animals eat each other as a survival tactic. As part of earth's beauty. There's a balance in nature. Animal cruelty out. Death penalty? ....complicated.....reserved for the worst and 100% proof and without costly appeals delays. A cheaper appeals processing. Those who want to live in prison for life and kill a guard any chance they get deserve to die. etc etc. I don't want to pay for this scenario.

04-21-2008, 11:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 24,153	The reason why I consider myself as a pro-choice, not pro-life because I am not fully pro-lifer. I support women´s choice for keep, abort or give child up for an adoption and life-threatening. If women decides for abortion then do it EARLY than late. I´m against partial birth abortion. I am against death penalty because it´s not right punishment but a vengeance. It teachs okay to kill... I am against for attack other country to make a war because it teachs okay to kill. I am for defend our country against attackers because it teachs okay to self-defense. I am a meat-eater. I support Assisted Suicide/Euthanasia to save people suffering ONLY if they WANT to. I also support Euthanasia to save the pets suffering as well. It make no sense if I claim that I am a pro-lifer... It means that I am pro-lifer if I am against abortion, death penatly, war, assisted suicide, euthanasia, etc. Some pro-lifers claim that they are pro-life when they support death penalty and against abortion. __________________ sniffing you

04-22-2008, 03:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo slotting Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Couve Wa Posts: 4,304	I personally are pro-life just like DeafDyke, but I still don't feel fair for me to vote against other's opinion and rights. I prefer to leave people's rights alone or they will turn into rebel and criminals, which are not fair. __________________ In memory of Ruby, see my picture album for more detail.

04-22-2008, 06:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: All I wanted was a white knight with a good heart, soft touch, fast horse, ride me off into the sunset Posts: 20,225	Those who are pro-choicers giving mothers right to aborted a child is like it's okay to kill an innocent child, but are against the death penalty, it's like spare the life of the criminals but kill the innocents. I'm pro-lifer, the right for innocents to have life, and pro-justice the right for the death penalty of criminals who do not deserve a life, dangerous criminals never expressed remorse for their actions, so they don’t deserve mercy. __________________

04-22-2008, 07:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
shel90 Sun Whorshipper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland Posts: 12,610 Blog Entries: 1	I guess that would make me pro-choice as it is not my place to tell other women what to do with their bodies. I am like Deafdyke..I am pro-life for myself, meaning I wouldnt get an abortion unless my life is in danger but i believe that every woman should have the rights to making their own decisions about their personal lives. Doesnt mean I have to like it. Death penalty..I am on the fence about that one. Vegan..I am with Cowpuppy on that one. __________________ ~Shel~

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04-21-2008, 11:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,293	I agree with your last statement. You cannot be pro-life and support the death penalty. If life is sacred, then you object to killing another human being, period. However, you can be pro-choice and pro-life at the same time. You are simply saying that life already in existence (the pregnant woman) takes precedence of the possibility of life (an embryo). The pregnant woman is already living life as defined by the concept of viability. If you are pro-life, then the life of the pregnant woman is a primary concern. To place lesser value on her life simply because she has a possibiltity of producing that which, once born, could be an independent viable life is to disregard pro-life philsophies. Likewise, to claim to be pro-life, and then to take the life of those who work in clinics that offer abortions is decidely not pro-life, as you are placing the possibility of life at a greater value than life in existence. You are making a moral value judgement on who deserves to continue living and who doesn't. Anytime you qaulify who deserves to live and who doesn't, you have drastically departed from the pro-life stance you claim to have. Physician assisted suicide is not in conflict with true pro-life principles, either. It is stating that the individual has the right to make the decisions regarding their own life, but not the life of others. Likewise with the death penalty.

04-21-2008, 12:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cowpuppy Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On The Road Again Posts: 375	As I had noted in other post.....I respect the consistency noted by said poster. I find the pro-lifers who seek death penalty to be self-serving. Hypocrisy. Children need nutrients-vitamins more easily derived from meat products. Assisted suicide.....mmmmm....a moral issue. difficult. But my view is that starving self......or refusing medical attention..... is not suicide. It is not an active act. It is a passive act. Not actually doing something active to make suicide happen. In my mind it is a method to become one with nature and higher spirit. Fasting is noted in many religions as making us closer to spirit. Denying self just a more extreme measure of this. A road to spirituality. In one with nature, too.

04-21-2008, 01:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,293	Agreed. It has been my observation that those who have adopted the "I'm pro-life" stance as an argument in the abortion debate, are actually not pro-life at all, as defined by pro-life philosophies, but are simply "anti-choice". But pro-life sounds much better on the surface, as it much more noble sounding than "anit-choice." Likewise with supporters of the death penalty. Their very foundation is that no one has the right to take the life of another, yet they are perfectly comfortable with engaging in execution by proxy under the guise of "punishment."

04-22-2008, 03:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,340	Personly, I'm pro-life for myself, but prochoice for everyone else. I would never have an abortion, but I'm not gonna stand in line and scream that someone else shouldn't have one. I do think that we could reduce the abortion problem by: forcing insurance companies to cover GOOD quality effective birth control, making the morning after pill over the counter, promoting good healthy relationship training (like a lot of girls seem to be very brainless when it comes to relationships. I remember reading a Teen People mag where a girl said that she had sex with someone, b/c she was afraid that if she didn't boys wouldn't like her any more) I also think that parents of potential special needs kids really need to be counseled. Most info out there on the various and sundry disabilites is so out of date, its not even funny! I'm against the death penalty in most cases, but I do think that there ARE some cases where the death penalty is justified. There are people out there who are just PURE evil, and who will never ever be rehabilitated. I also think that some people have been brainwashed into thinking that ALL abortion is evil. What about if the mom has an etopic pregnancy? (a condition where the sperm fertilizes the egg in the fallopian tube. This is a condition, that if not treated KILLS) What about if a baby's died in utereo? What if it has a 100% fatal condition? (like anacephely)

04-22-2008, 07:23 PM	#16 (permalink)
Cowpuppy Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On The Road Again Posts: 375	Perhaps someday I will change my death penalty stance...I would like to.....but I have too many personal experiences as a former investigator of filthy dirtbags.....whom wished to snuff me out....I was hunted like a dog for years...so it's a biased choice for me.