21's a Bust? Seven States Debate Lowering Drinking Age - Page 3

gmcman1996 · 05-27-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

I can understand it being morally wrong in the state of Alabama but it's a little different in Washington State due to the historical significance of this law.

Afterall Washington state was settled by Scandinvians.

Oh Pul-lease!!!! I ain't no lawyer.... Just the stupid lawmakers, being weak, and passing these ridiculous laws... It's a sorry joke... but to me... I wouldn't tolerate drinking by any kid, until they are 21! It's a damn shame what Washington State is doing.. to their citizens with kids when it come to alcohol!

jenni-m · 05-27-2008, 11:06 PM

There is nothing wrong with some alcohol (unless it conflicts with a health problem, or you ABUSE it)

Nothing wrong with a responsible adult allowing a child to experience it, it helps educate and removes the 'mystery' of it. I think a lot of kids resent being prevented from drinking without proper explanation or education. No kid likes 'just don't do it. We can do it, but you can't!' and some will end up abusing it out of resentment or rebellion.

Alcohol used to be an important part of living for many cultures, as it had health benefits and nutritional value, and children did drink it, under guidance from the parents. It is abuse of alcohol that gives it the bad image.

gmcman1996 · 05-27-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenni-m

There is nothing wrong with some alcohol (unless it conflicts with a health problem, or you ABUSE it)

Nothing wrong with a responsible adult allowing a child to experience it, it helps educate and removes the 'mystery' of it. I think a lot of kids resent being prevented from drinking without proper explanation or education. No kid likes 'just don't do it. We can do it, but you can't!' and some will end up abusing it out of resentment or rebellion.

Alcohol used to be an important part of living for many cultures, as it had health benefits and nutritional value, and children did drink it, under guidance from the parents. It is abuse of alcohol that gives it the bad image.

Well, I think it is morally wrong, and VERY WRONG by the states that permit that kind of activity... Wait until you are 21, then that's up to you to test the fate of alcohol!

jenni-m · 05-27-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Well, I think it is morally wrong, and VERY WRONG by the states that permit that kind of activity... Wait until you are 21, then that's up to you to test the fate of alcohol!

You have the right to think that, and nobody can take it from you. It is how you feel and that is just fine. At the same time, you alone can't decide for everyone, especially based on morality alone, that is not how law works in this country. Other views have to be considered... you might be 'unlucky' and not get what you want, but that is one of the prices you pay for living in a society like this one.

Edit:
And, if you want the age to stay at 21, vote to keep it that way and get your friends who agree to vote also... get enough votes and you may get what you want, that is how it works here (or at least how it is supposed to) I'm not sure if it in question in your state, but if it comes up there, that is what you do. Or even if it is not up for vote, make your opinion known, you have that right.

gmcman1996 · 05-27-2008, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenni-m

You have the right to think that, and nobody can take it from you. It is how you feel and that is just fine. At the same time, you alone can't decide for everyone, especially based on morality alone, that is not how law works in this country. Other views have to be considered... you might be 'unlucky' and not get what you want, but that is one of the prices you pay for living in a society like this one.

Edit:
And, if you want the age to stay at 21, vote to keep it that way and get your friends who agree to vote also... get enough votes and you may get what you want, that is how it works here (or at least how it is supposed to) I'm not sure if it in question in your state, but if it comes up there, that is what you do. Or even if it is not up for vote, make your opinion known, you have that right.

Thanks for your opinion... but yes we all have our rights...

***VamPyroX*** · 05-28-2008, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Very True! That is 99.9% the main reason for that! Ahh, if they (states) lowered it.. Then up goes the numbers of drunk young drivers! Bad enough... Not a good idea!

How would the numbers increase?

There are already minors drinking alcohol. One reason why a lot of these minors are tempted to drink alcohol is because it's a "bad thing". When drinking alcohol isn't a "bad thing" cuz they're of legal age, then there's no temptation in drinking.

So, the numbers would likely be the same or less.

Either way, it would likely encourage politicians to make stricter DUI laws.

gmcman1996 · 05-28-2008, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

How would the numbers increase?

There are already minors drinking alcohol. One reason why a lot of these minors are tempted to drink alcohol is because it's a "bad thing". When drinking alcohol isn't a "bad thing" cuz they're of legal age, then there's no temptation in drinking.

So, the numbers would likely be the same or less.

Either way, it would likely encourage politicians to make stricter DUI laws.

Any one under 21, found to be legally drunk, has to be 0.02 , by law,... but if 21, or older, it is 0.08 by all states.. so in case you forgot!

dr benway · 05-28-2008, 02:04 AM

if cities in the us were planned a bit better and had better public transportation, dui's would be pretty rare...

jenni-m · 05-28-2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Any one under 21, found to be legally drunk, has to be 0.02 , by law,... but if 21, or older, it is 0.08 by all states.. so in case you forgot!

Semantics.
If you are impaired at 0.02, you are still impaired at 0.08 (and impaired even worse). What is 'legally' drunk is irrelevant, there is simply more tolerance within the law at 21, by what you are saying. That does not indicate more drinking, it only indicates possibly a higher number of cases being classified as 'legally drunk' (if it even does that).

gmcman1996 · 05-28-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenni-m

Semantics.
If you are impaired at 0.02, you are still impaired at 0.08 (and impaired even worse). What is 'legally' drunk is irrelevant, there is simply more tolerance within the law at 21, by what you are saying. That does not indicate more drinking, it only indicates possibly a higher number of cases being classified as 'legally drunk' (if it even does that).

Simply that law was made, so that any one, aged 17-20 fall in that 0.02 category... but anyone from 21 and up, fall in the 0.08 category... Guess drunk driving isn't worth your license... Is it?

Byrdie714 · 05-28-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Oh Pul-lease!!!! I ain't no lawyer.... Just the stupid lawmakers, being weak, and passing these ridiculous laws... It's a sorry joke... but to me... I wouldn't tolerate drinking by any kid, until they are 21! It's a damn shame what Washington State is doing.. to their citizens with kids when it come to alcohol!

Damn shame that Washington State is doing what? Not being puritanical like....Alabama, Ohio or some bible-thumping state?

Just because we do things a little different doesn't mean that its right or wrong.

Secondly, I haven't seen you address the issue of an 18 year-old who is enlisted in the military not being able to drink. If they are old enough to die for our country, they are old enough to drink.

gmcman1996 · 05-28-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Damn shame that Washington State is doing what? Not being puritanical like....Alabama, Ohio or some bible-thumping state?

Just because we do things a little different doesn't mean that its right or wrong.

Secondly, I haven't seen you address the issue of an 18 year-old who is enlisted in the military not being able to drink. If they are old enough to die for our country, they are old enough to drink.

Some laws are so bizarre, that it's always up for debate.....

jillio · 05-28-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Damn shame that Washington State is doing what? Not being puritanical like....Alabama, Ohio or some bible-thumping state?

Just because we do things a little different doesn't mean that its right or wrong.

Secondly, I haven't seen you address the issue of an 18 year-old who is enlisted in the military not being able to drink. If they are old enough to die for our country, they are old enough to drink.

Not being puritanical AND hypocritical, I might add.

jenni-m · 05-28-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Simply that law was made, so that any one, aged 17-20 fall in that 0.02 category... but anyone from 21 and up, fall in the 0.08 category... Guess drunk driving isn't worth your license... Is it?

But that goes against what you are trying to say from earlier.
Nobody should drink and drive... and for under 21, it would be EASIER to get caught, therefore more deterrent from doing it (one could hope).

I don't understand what you are trying to say with this.
Also don't understand how it is or isn't 'worth your license' or how that even relates to blood alcohol or legal age.

gmcman1996 · 05-28-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenni-m

But that goes against what you are trying to say from earlier.
Nobody should drink and drive... and for under 21, it would be EASIER to get caught, therefore more deterrent from doing it (one could hope).

I don't understand what you are trying to say with this.
Also don't understand how it is or isn't 'worth your license' or how that even relates to blood alcohol or legal age.

Didn't anybody tell you that having a driver's license is a privilege... Meaning if you are caught driving drunk... your driving privileges are taken away...

Simply what I am saying is your license is worth more, than drinking and driving...

I have been driving for 25 years... so take that from an experienced driver, who understands the facts that a driver's license is a privilege....

Oh, and one more thing... I damn sure not losing it either!

jenni-m · 05-28-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Didn't anybody tell you that having a driver's license is a privilege... Meaning if you are caught driving drunk... your driving privileges are taken away...

Simply what I am saying is your license is worth more, than drinking and driving...

I have been driving for 25 years... so take that from an experienced driver, who understands the facts that a driver's license is a privilege....

Oh, and one more thing... I damn sure not losing it either!

Well, yes, I agree. I still don't see how the blood levels you posted relates to this, except to actually enforce what you just said here...

gmcman1996 · 05-28-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenni-m

Well, yes, I agree. I still don't see how the blood levels you posted relates to this, except to actually enforce what you just said here...

Now, the BAC business is a bit tricky.. depending on which police department you had the run-in with, for possible DUI, or BUI... but see, most states require a 0.08 BAC, in order to consider you illegally drunk, so 99.9 of the time, a driver has a BAC of 0.08 or higher, is going to be arrested, and charged with DUI, provided if he hasn't wrecked up, or injured other people... Consider additional charge, of Felony DUI! That is really BAD!

The worst case scenario would be a driver with a 0.20 and has killed someone.. is facing Vehicular Manslaughter, and Felony DUI.. so bye bye !

Byrdie714 · 05-28-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Not being puritanical AND hypocritical, I might add.

gmcman1996 · 05-28-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Don't they have a beach law for driving drunk on beach?....

jillio · 05-28-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Don't they have a beach law for driving drunk on beach?....

Well, by golly, they should have. Especially for kids, 'cuz kids drinking and driving on the beach is just plain ammoral!!!

Byrdie714 · 05-28-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Don't they have a beach law for driving drunk on beach?....

Actually, the beach is considered a highway with speed limit of 25 mph. The same laws apply.

The only difference is that when you drive on the beach, you are taking a risk to do so as if you get caught in high tide or get stuck, you have to pay the towing fee and that isn't fun. Plus other things to consider as well.

Of course, that is whole different topic......

PuyoPiyo · 05-29-2008, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Man! That is VERY WRONG!!! That is the worst example to pass down on your own kids.. because Washington State lets that happen... Pretty damn stupid!

I don't understand the bad examples these states are inflicting alcohol usage by minors, in the first place... That is bullshit... Pardon my french....

Well I raise with my parents who love to sit down on the couch and watch the movies and a glass of wine, or having a glass of wine during eating the dinner, or even having a special alcohol drink (like a egg nog with a rum) during the celebrate such like Christmas, I learn from my parents about drinking alcohol mostly than I learn from other friends who drink the alcohol. My parents sometimes ask me if I want some of wine or any beverage with alcohol included, I tend to not have much of problem about drinking with my parents.

The law doesn't mean that children have right to drink whatever they want to, the law mean that only parents can have choice to share the alcohol with the children or not, the law doesn't give the children any choices to drink the alcohol.

I'd rather to see the children, especially the teenagers, to learn about the alcohol through parents instead of other friends who lead the teenager to do something illegal and learn the wrong way about drinking the alcohol. I have some of friends who raise with parents who refuse to share the alcohol with my friends and they ended up as fear of alcohol because they learn the wrong way about drinking the alcohol through elsewhere such like those who are alcoholism. It's kinda sad because I can't really drink the alcohol with them because they think me drinking the alcohol just like others who have problem with the alcohol, even though I was drinking it moderately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

I can understand it being morally wrong in the state of Alabama but it's a little different in Washington State due to the historical significance of this law.

Afterall Washington state was settled by Scandinvians.

Really? I didn't know that! That's cool anyway

PuyoPiyo · 05-29-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcman1996

Oh Pul-lease!!!! I ain't no lawyer.... Just the stupid lawmakers, being weak, and passing these ridiculous laws... It's a sorry joke... but to me... I wouldn't tolerate drinking by any kid, until they are 21! It's a damn shame what Washington State is doing.. to their citizens with kids when it come to alcohol!

Shame on us? Okay... We banned the distilled alcohol (like Moon Shine), we are more moderately drinkers around here in Washington, but I guess that's too shame just because parents give a little glass of wine to teenagers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Damn shame that Washington State is doing what? Not being puritanical like....Alabama, Ohio or some bible-thumping state?

Just because we do things a little different doesn't mean that its right or wrong.

Secondly, I haven't seen you address the issue of an 18 year-old who is enlisted in the military not being able to drink. If they are old enough to die for our country, they are old enough to drink.

I totally agree with you, the armies should have right to drink at the same time they became an solider, it's not fair for them to risk their life without having any right to drink while others can stay in the country safe and enjoy the alcohol.

05-28-2008, 02:04 AM	#68 (permalink)
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05-27-2008, 11:06 PM	#62 (permalink)
jenni-m Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 598	There is nothing wrong with some alcohol (unless it conflicts with a health problem, or you ABUSE it) Nothing wrong with a responsible adult allowing a child to experience it, it helps educate and removes the 'mystery' of it. I think a lot of kids resent being prevented from drinking without proper explanation or education. No kid likes 'just don't do it. We can do it, but you can't!' and some will end up abusing it out of resentment or rebellion. Alcohol used to be an important part of living for many cultures, as it had health benefits and nutritional value, and children did drink it, under guidance from the parents. It is abuse of alcohol that gives it the bad image.