The Death Penalty - Page 5

jazzy · 04-17-2008, 09:42 AM

Have you watch inside of prisons? It is horrible how those prisoners treat prison guards. Those death row prisoners does not desrve to be in prison for rest of their life. They bite, fighting, stab, threw their own fecus (mispelling), and many more at their own guards all the time. Prison guards risk their own lives to protect us from those killers. No one that I know of, say thank them for their jobs.

Wokamuka · 04-17-2008, 10:02 AM

What if the prisons fell into a time of anarchy (inside and outside)? In the aftermath of the Hurricane, guards left the prison with the prisoners still inside. The military, who came to save lives, released them and all fled.

What happens when a prison falls into anarchy (for whatever reason - not limited to a natural disaster)? Would I want the person, who has extreme disregard for human life, to have the chance to prove it again?

Maybe hope they'll go to the homes of those against the death penalty?

Byrdie714 · 04-17-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

What does a life sentence "teach"?

It reminds the victim's family that the killer still lives while their loved one is still dead.

It allows the killer to relive the pleasure of his crime every day and night.

It allows women to fall in love with murderers and even marry them in prison.

It allows the killer (a la Charles Manson) to bask in the glow of publicity every time they come up for parole.

It forces the victim's family to relive the agony every time the killer has an appeal or parole hearing.

It causes victims, witnesses, and jurors to lie in fear that the killer will escape and come after them.

Who cares about the victims and their families? All the tears seem to be for the rapists, murderers, kidnappers, and torturers.

jillio · 04-17-2008, 12:59 PM

The death penalty reduces those in charge of enforcing the law into the same depraved and immoral condition as those that have committed the heinous crime. The executioner is no better, morally or ethically, than the murderer. He only hides his depravity behind the claim of justice served.

Cheri · 04-17-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

What does a life sentence "teach"?

It reminds the victim's family that the killer still lives while their loved one is still dead.

It allows the killer to relive the pleasure of his crime every day and night.

It allows women to fall in love with murderers and even marry them in prison.

It allows the killer (a la Charles Manson) to bask in the glow of publicity every time they come up for parole.

It forces the victim's family to relive the agony every time the killer has an appeal or parole hearing.

It causes victims, witnesses, and jurors to lie in fear that the killer will escape and come after them.

Who cares about the victims and their families? All the tears seem to be for the rapists, murderers, kidnappers, and torturers.

!!

and who cares about the emotionally scars that the survivors "victims" have to live with for the rest of their lives of what had happened to them?

Reba · 04-17-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The death penalty reduces those in charge of enforcing the law into the same depraved and immoral condition as those that have committed the heinous crime. The executioner is no better, morally or ethically, than the murderer. He only hides his depravity behind the claim of justice served.

You've got to be kidding!

Oceanbreeze · 04-17-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

!!

and who cares about the emotionally scars that the survivors "victims" have to live with for the rest of their lives of what had happened to them?

Who cares about the victims? I must be misinterpreting your post!
I sure hope I am!

IslandBreeze07 · 04-17-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I agree with you, so consider this a devil's advocate post. I really have mixed feelings about the death penalty. I generally support it, but the ones that are on death row, and are innocent (proven when DNA exonerates them), bothers the heck out of me. I can't ignore that. There are people sitting on death row who didn't do the crime. How does one deal with that?

Also, what about families who must wait YEARS to see the killer executed? That's also excruciating... Wouldn't it be better to send the killer to prison with life, no parole???? In most murder cases

Ah, the whole system needs to be revamped....

As I said, I don't disagree with you at all. But, there's serious flaws in our system, and they need to be fixed. Such as making sure the accused ACTUALLY did the crime and I also think the appeal's process needs to be tweaked. It shouldn't take 20 yrs to execute someone.

I used to be FOR death penalty. Now IT has to fit the crime 100%. For the above reasons and to make sure the appeals are limited to x number of years and be done with it. We have just about everything to check the vic, perp and the crime to make sure now.

I knew a millionaire farmer who died a fiery death after being shot at and begging for his life. The perps didn't care. Not even with the pictures of his children on the wall. They wanted everything that he had. He was a very giving man, and allowed one of the perps on a work release program to do farm work. That's how the guy looked around and thought "I gotta get my pals in here and...."

I cannot tell you how I'd call looking for one of the daughters while we were just out of college and get the ex wife crying out to me about the needless death. They were divorced but still... It was horrible.

Now, a mom of two in my "small-town" city got kidnapped, raped and murdered few miles away from everyone at all points in the area. Long story, but this is something normally for life sentencing. Not this one. The sheriff's Office is doing everything they can to MAKE SURE this guy gets the death penalty. Everyone in this area will definitely push for it no matter what just because of how everything happened. The 21 yr old mom actually made sure the house was locked on her way out when she was being kidnapped because the kids were sleeping in their rooms and the dad was coming home in 30 mins! She did absolutely everything to let the world know who the kidnapper/killer know before her death which is how the guy is really screwed all the way to the gates of Hell. (Thanks for listening!)

Cheri · 04-17-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Who cares about the victims? I must be misinterpreting your post!
I sure hope I am!

Yes, you are misinterpreting my post, I was adding something to Reba's questions of "What does a life sentence "teach"?

Oceanbreeze · 04-17-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandBreeze07

I used to be FOR death penalty. Now IT has to fit the crime 100%. For the above reasons and to make sure the appeals are limited to x number of years and be done with it. We have just about everything to check the vic, perp and the crime to make sure now.

I knew a millionaire farmer who died a fiery death after being shot at and begging for his life. The perps didn't care. Not even with the pictures of his children on the wall. They wanted everything that he had. He was a very giving man, and allowed one of the perps on a work release program to do farm work. That's how the guy looked around and thought "I gotta get my pals in here and...."

I cannot tell you how I'd call looking for one of the daughters while we were just out of college and get the ex wife crying out to me about the needless death. They were divorced but still... It was horrible.

Now, a mom of two in my "small-town" city got kidnapped, raped and murdered few miles away from everyone at all points in the area. Long story, but this is something normally for life sentencing. Not this one. The sheriff's Office is doing everything they can to MAKE SURE this guy gets the death penalty. Everyone in this area will definitely push for it no matter what just because of how everything happened. The 21 yr old mom actually made sure the house was locked on her way out when she was being kidnapped because the kids were sleeping in their rooms and the dad was coming home in 30 mins! She did absolutely everything to let the world know who the kidnapper/killer know before her death which is how the guy is really screwed all the way to the gates of Hell. (Thanks for listening!)

Well, was playing "Devils advocate" in the post you quoted. The truth be known, I'm ambivalent about the death penalty. The system is broken, and we need to fix it. Until then, I remain on the fence about it. I neither wholeheartedly support the death penalty, nor am I wholeheartedly against it, either.

Oceanbreeze · 04-17-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Yes, you are misinterpreting my post, I was adding something to Reba's questions of "What does a life sentence "teach"?

OK, sorry. It just looked like you were saying something against the victims, and I wanted to make sure that wasn't the case.

Banjo · 04-17-2008, 03:01 PM

Oh right, like we don't care about the victims. Wrong, I do care for the victims. Although it doesn't mean I will support the concept of capital punishment. How is executing a person going to help the family and friends of the victim? The victim is still dead. A lot of them will still suffer long after the person is executed.

What about the people who were wrongfully convicted and executed?

It's not like you can just go, "whoops!" It's certainly not a little thing. Taking one's life should not be taken lightly. How are you going to make up for it? You can't substitute a soul with another to make up for it.

Sometimes, I wonder if Christians are following the values of Christians instead of the values of Christ.

Everybody who are in favour of capital punishment, can you please tell us why capital punishment is necessary even though it will cost you 3 times the cost of keeping a person in prison for life without parole?

jillio · 04-17-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Oh right, like we don't care about the victims. Wrong, I do care for the victims. Although it doesn't mean I will support the concept of capital punishment. How is executing a person going to help the family and friends of the victim? The victim is still dead. A lot of them will still suffer long after the person is executed.

What about the people who were wrongfully convicted and executed?

It's not like you can just go, "whoops!" It's certainly not a little thing. Taking one's life should not be taken lightly. How are you going to make up for it? You can't substitute a soul with another to make up for it.

Sometimes, I wonder if Christians are following the values of Christians instead of the values of Christ.

Everybody who are in favour of capital punishment, can you please tell us why capital punishment is necessary even though it will cost you 3 times the cost of keeping a person in prison for life without parole?

And, no, Reba, I am not kidding.

Chase · 04-17-2008, 05:31 PM

This is just Chase, not bleeding heart Linc or Pete of the Mod Squad.

I've always been in favor of the death penalty following conviction and judicial review for first degree murder.

But I have always believed innocent until proven guilty, yet now DNA evidence has demonstrated hundreds of times that our system for proving guilt is seriously flawed. Many, many innocent people are convicted and years later it is proven they could not have done the crime.

For that reason, I believe a moratorium on capital punishment should be part of an overhaul of the capital crimes courts.

Please don't cite the low percentages of people wrongly convicted; it's still too many to maintain any credible faith in the present system.

At the same time, the prison systems where some are vacation resorts for criminals and training grounds for others also needs an overhaul. If nothing else, our highways need cleaning.

Oceanbreeze · 04-17-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

This is just Chase, not bleeding heart Linc or Pete of the Mod Squad.

I've always been in favor of the death penalty following conviction and judicial review for first degree murder.

But I have always believed innocent until proven guilty, yet now DNA evidence has demonstrated hundreds of times that our system for provong guilt is seriously flawed. Many, many innocent people are convicted and years later it is proved they could not have done the crime.

For that reason, I believe a moratorium on capital punishment should be part of an overhaul of the capital crimes courts.

Please don't cite the low percentages of people wrongly convicted; it's still too many to maintain any credible faith in the present system.

At the same time, the prison systems where some are vacation resorts for criminals and training grounds for others also needs an overhaul. If nothing else, our highways need cleaning.

I think if we're going to use the death penalty, it needs to be applied correctly, and I question whether that's always the case.

Wokamuka · 04-17-2008, 07:36 PM

I'm always glad that I'm not executioner. On the flip side, I've never been someone who "found God" in prison after cold-heartedly murdering other humans. I can tell you, with great relief (as many others), that I am not an executioner.

"Eye for an Eye" is a hateful kind of justice. Should Saddam Hussein go through the same tribulations as he'd ordered a people to go through? He might've been more sympathetic . . . but, at that point of after many, many deaths, it was beyond teaching - he had to die. The death penalty's purpose is to remove from society someone who is a threat to society.

The cost of the death penalty comes out of the trials . . . where the law has allowed many, many loopholes for those stuck with the death penalty. (This was in defense against science (before confidence in DNA) and personal convictions (religion, campaigning and what have you) of politicians.) No one wants to have the responsibility (in the now; in the hereafter) of another person's life. It doesn't look good on the resume.

DNA and forensic science is much more advanced than the death penalty debate. It's the laws/politics of the death penalty that has allowed society to squabble over this . . . the shifting/passing of the responsibility. Tell me . . . are you a Pontius Pilate, as well?

Quote:

The death penalty reduces those in charge of enforcing the law into the same depraved and immoral condition as those that have committed the heinous crime. The executioner is no better, morally or ethically, than the murderer. He only hides his depravity behind the claim of justice served.

My desire to protect society from this evil is not a depraved and immoral condition. The executioner - Pontius Pilate, who shifts the responsbility on someone else for the sake of security and spiritual protection - is no better, morally or ethically - many would like to believe that and, yet, do exactly what Philo has done. So the cycle continues.

Ah, geez . . . what light am I seeing all of you in?

KarissaMann05 · 04-17-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Exactly!!! Death penalty will NEVER solves anything but bitter and revenge... Its teach people to be bitter and revenge...

:nods: Said well.

For an example,
Think hardly.. A person had a harder life, a such poorer qauilty of life, and it is not matter how difficult life is, a person will blow his/her mind off and goes in an insane way to kill some or many people. Because how a situation effects on this person, but, it's really nescessary to end his/her life because what he/she have done so beyond and wrongful things?

I meant, come on, just put her in a jail or in mental hostipal or something else instead of this "death-penalty-is-the-best-way!" crap.

Just sayin'.

KarissaMann05 · 04-17-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Oh right, like we don't care about the victims. Wrong, I do care for the victims. Although it doesn't mean I will support the concept of capital punishment. How is executing a person going to help the family and friends of the victim? The victim is still dead. A lot of them will still suffer long after the person is executed.

What about the people who were wrongfully convicted and executed?

It's not like you can just go, "whoops!" It's certainly not a little thing. Taking one's life should not be taken lightly. How are you going to make up for it? You can't substitute a soul with another to make up for it.

Sometimes, I wonder if Christians are following the values of Christians instead of the values of Christ.

Everybody who are in favour of capital punishment, can you please tell us why capital punishment is necessary even though it will cost you 3 times the cost of keeping a person in prison for life without parole?

Indeed. I, too wonder the same thing sometimes, Banjo.

Quote:

Taking one's life should not be taken lightly.

I strongly agreed; one cost a life is too beyond wrecked up to effect others; a guilty is being viod which is causing to bring more harmful things on *some* people. Is it really worth for?

PuyoPiyo · 04-17-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Oh right, like we don't care about the victims. Wrong, I do care for the victims. Although it doesn't mean I will support the concept of capital punishment. How is executing a person going to help the family and friends of the victim? The victim is still dead. A lot of them will still suffer long after the person is executed.

What about the people who were wrongfully convicted and executed?

It's not like you can just go, "whoops!" It's certainly not a little thing. Taking one's life should not be taken lightly. How are you going to make up for it? You can't substitute a soul with another to make up for it.

Sometimes, I wonder if Christians are following the values of Christians instead of the values of Christ.

Everybody who are in favour of capital punishment, can you please tell us why capital punishment is necessary even though it will cost you 3 times the cost of keeping a person in prison for life without parole?

Have to agree with you, I don't support the death penatly just because I felt sorry for the murders, I do felt sorry for the victim ever more than the murder, but taking revenge against them seems doesn't goes right for me. I do think life sentence are enough for them.

jillio · 04-17-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

This is just Chase, not bleeding heart Linc or Pete of the Mod Squad.

I've always been in favor of the death penalty following conviction and judicial review for first degree murder.

But I have always believed innocent until proven guilty, yet now DNA evidence has demonstrated hundreds of times that our system for proving guilt is seriously flawed. Many, many innocent people are convicted and years later it is proven they could not have done the crime.

For that reason, I believe a moratorium on capital punishment should be part of an overhaul of the capital crimes courts.

Please don't cite the low percentages of people wrongly convicted; it's still too many to maintain any credible faith in the present system.

At the same time, the prison systems where some are vacation resorts for criminals and training grounds for others also needs an overhaul. If nothing else, our highways need cleaning.

Agreed. To risk executing even 1 innocent person is too great a risk to take, IMO.

Cheri · 04-17-2008, 11:28 PM

Supporting the death sentence is not about revenge, It is to punished criminals and to prevent them from committing the same crime. How many children, men, women have been murdered at the hands of repeated criminals?

Just because some Christians support the death sentence doesn't mean we are actually doing the killing.

"Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man" (Genesis 9:6).

It's the same thing as God forgives sin, but we still have to pay the penalty for it. It's all about justice.

jillio · 04-17-2008, 11:32 PM

There are several forms of justice. There is punitive justice, and there is retallitory justice. To ask for the life of another is not punitive, it is revenge. One must be alive to be punished.

shel90 · 04-17-2008, 11:39 PM

I am not sure how I feel about the death Penalty. Before I was born, one of my mom's cousins was a victim of Ted Bundy and my great aunt's family used to be against the death penalty until the murder happened. I tried getting more information but the subject is just too taboo in the family. All I know is that my great aunt's family are strong supporters of the death penalty cuz of the murder.

I can say that I wouldnt be honest with myself if I came in here stating that I am either for or against it cuz I dont know what it is like to have someone close to me murdered. A part of me supports it cuz I would love to do away with all these people who commit these horrific acts on innocent people but then there is another part of me that cannot trust the justic system that each person being executed are truly guilty of the crimes they were found guilty of.

Matilda · 04-18-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

At the same time, the prison systems where some are vacation resorts for criminals and training grounds for others also needs an overhaul. If nothing else, our highways need cleaning.

I'm for the death penalty, if 100% proven guilty. As Chase said, about the prisoners getting all the lurks and perks in jail when they should be doing hard labor every day! .... where has that all gone?

04-17-2008, 09:42 AM	#121 (permalink)
jazzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,196	Have you watch inside of prisons? It is horrible how those prisoners treat prison guards. Those death row prisoners does not desrve to be in prison for rest of their life. They bite, fighting, stab, threw their own fecus (mispelling), and many more at their own guards all the time. Prison guards risk their own lives to protect us from those killers. No one that I know of, say thank them for their jobs. __________________

04-17-2008, 10:02 AM	#122 (permalink)
Wokamuka 1.20.09 : end of an error Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,828	What if the prisons fell into a time of anarchy (inside and outside)? In the aftermath of the Hurricane, guards left the prison with the prisoners still inside. The military, who came to save lives, released them and all fled. What happens when a prison falls into anarchy (for whatever reason - not limited to a natural disaster)? Would I want the person, who has extreme disregard for human life, to have the chance to prove it again? Maybe hope they'll go to the homes of those against the death penalty? __________________

04-17-2008, 05:31 PM	#134 (permalink)
Chase Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,316	This is just Chase, not bleeding heart Linc or Pete of the Mod Squad. I've always been in favor of the death penalty following conviction and judicial review for first degree murder. But I have always believed innocent until proven guilty, yet now DNA evidence has demonstrated hundreds of times that our system for proving guilt is seriously flawed. Many, many innocent people are convicted and years later it is proven they could not have done the crime. For that reason, I believe a moratorium on capital punishment should be part of an overhaul of the capital crimes courts. Please don't cite the low percentages of people wrongly convicted; it's still too many to maintain any credible faith in the present system. At the same time, the prison systems where some are vacation resorts for criminals and training grounds for others also needs an overhaul. If nothing else, our highways need cleaning. Last edited by Chase; 04-17-2008 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Better spelling, heh

04-17-2008, 11:28 PM	#141 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,074	Supporting the death sentence is not about revenge, It is to punished criminals and to prevent them from committing the same crime. How many children, men, women have been murdered at the hands of repeated criminals? Just because some Christians support the death sentence doesn't mean we are actually doing the killing. "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man" (Genesis 9:6). It's the same thing as God forgives sin, but we still have to pay the penalty for it. It's all about justice. __________________

04-17-2008, 11:39 PM	#143 (permalink)
shel90 Sun Whorshipper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland Posts: 16,154 Blog Entries: 1	I am not sure how I feel about the death Penalty. Before I was born, one of my mom's cousins was a victim of Ted Bundy and my great aunt's family used to be against the death penalty until the murder happened. I tried getting more information but the subject is just too taboo in the family. All I know is that my great aunt's family are strong supporters of the death penalty cuz of the murder. I can say that I wouldnt be honest with myself if I came in here stating that I am either for or against it cuz I dont know what it is like to have someone close to me murdered. A part of me supports it cuz I would love to do away with all these people who commit these horrific acts on innocent people but then there is another part of me that cannot trust the justic system that each person being executed are truly guilty of the crimes they were found guilty of. __________________ ~Shel~ "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

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04-17-2008, 12:59 PM	#124 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,197	The death penalty reduces those in charge of enforcing the law into the same depraved and immoral condition as those that have committed the heinous crime. The executioner is no better, morally or ethically, than the murderer. He only hides his depravity behind the claim of justice served.

04-17-2008, 03:01 PM	#132 (permalink)
Banjo Mr. Movie Guy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,129 Blog Entries: 1	Oh right, like we don't care about the victims. Wrong, I do care for the victims. Although it doesn't mean I will support the concept of capital punishment. How is executing a person going to help the family and friends of the victim? The victim is still dead. A lot of them will still suffer long after the person is executed. What about the people who were wrongfully convicted and executed? It's not like you can just go, "whoops!" It's certainly not a little thing. Taking one's life should not be taken lightly. How are you going to make up for it? You can't substitute a soul with another to make up for it. Sometimes, I wonder if Christians are following the values of Christians instead of the values of Christ. Everybody who are in favour of capital punishment, can you please tell us why capital punishment is necessary even though it will cost you 3 times the cost of keeping a person in prison for life without parole?

04-17-2008, 11:32 PM	#142 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,197	There are several forms of justice. There is punitive justice, and there is retallitory justice. To ask for the life of another is not punitive, it is revenge. One must be alive to be punished.