The Death Penalty - Page 13

Liebling:-))) · 05-07-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

Then you should be in prison too for raising a killing machine. I would arrest you and charge you with criminally negligent manslaughter for knowingly raising a killing machine that is a danger to public but self-denying it. If it's your fault for exposing him/her into serial killer, then you should be in jail. Hell - we should arrest punk friends of murderer for exposing him to criminal elements!! Let's arrest owners of strip club for exposing such filth to men who became rapists!!!

Bullshit. Everyone is responsible for their own action - nobody else unless you brainwashed him as your drone and he does everything at your command like a robot.

I can see that you have the problem with your knowledge and feeling.

You will see different when you have a child.

Cowpuppy · 05-07-2008, 02:54 PM

People respond differently to situations....differnet kinds of murder crimes....different victimizations......some people respond differently once perp is snuffed out. It's not meant to be a perfect system...it's too emotional; to satisfy everyone or anyone for that matter. There is never complete satisfaction. Just becasue someones family was victimized doesn't mean that person has the right to speak for the entire society.....as much as it does hurt.......others want thier say, too. It's part of life....stuff happens. No perfect system....no real revenge. No winners or happiness in it.

jillio · 05-07-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowpuppy

People respond differently to situations....differnet kinds of murder crimes....different victimizations......some people respond differently once perp is snuffed out. It's not meant to be a perfect system...it's too emotional; to satisfy everyone or anyone for that matter. There is never complete satisfaction. Just becasue someones family was victimized doesn't mean that person has the right to speak for the entire society.....as much as it does hurt.......others want thier say, too. It's part of life....stuff happens. No perfect system....no real revenge. No winners or happiness in it.

Reba · 05-07-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Not really, that´s one link I found and posted here at several weeks. I can´t remember which pages I posted here. Few murder victim´s family were angry at first and want murderer dead... They sentenced the murderer death that´s what victim´s family want until they faced murderer on his last day. They saw different...

I found out the example

Exactly. You found one biased site that promoted their cause and your viewpoint.

Quote:

wow, interesting...

You said nothing when someone questioned us what and how we reacts when our own child are murdered but you said something when I said something opposite ... *scratch my head*

I don't know what you're talking about; I'm not as anal as you think--I don't read each and every post in AD.

Anyway, if you want to know how I would feel if my child was murdered, the answer is I would be devastated. I don't know if I could even think or act rationally.

Quote:

You are on one sided.

So? What's wrong with that? Sometimes we have to take a stand in our beliefs. We can't sit on the fence forever.

Quote:

I am on both sided because EVERY including murder victims and serial killers do have parents.

So? I'm sorry that the killer's parents have to suffer for the sins of their offspring but that doesn't mean we should go easy on the killer.

Quote:

You make a simple assumption without ask me first.. .

Assumption about what? Asking you what? What are you talking about? You said, "I bet you would want justice to put him/her to jail for rest of life."

You made the assumption that every parent would want to do things the same way. You made the "bet", not me.

I merely replied, "You might lose that bet." That means, you might be wrong in your assumption.

Quote:

Interesting... For your information, I had an experience/involve with abuser-victim relationship, intrude, etc in real life and know what kind of feeling I have.

I'm not disputing your feelings. You are entitled to your feelings about your own experiences. But that doesn't mean you can assume that other people would have the same feelings or make the same decisions.

Quote:

I watch feeling of both side and myself in real life. Next time, please don´t make assume.

Since I didn't assume anything about anything, I don't know how to respond.

Liebling:-))) · 05-07-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

I told you for many times - I refuse to listen to any sources with special interest/agenda. You just gave me a link to some media site that is obviously a Liberal. I'm sorry but that's not a fact. STOP USING MEDIA/BLOG AS SUPPORT FOR YOUR ARGUMENT. It's a waste of time and it's subjective. I want raw raw raw data that you number-crunched yourself then tell me your own interpretation from it. I just did a quick read and turns out that Atlantic Review is anti-Bush, a bit of anti-America, anti-death, anti-etc. damn liberals...

The link, I provided is fact because I live here in Germany and have knowledge. I work together with American co-workers for long years. We shared our cultures and agrees that murder/volience rates is higher in America than in Germany. Go and check the link, Chase provided in his previous post.

Yes I am allow to correct the link, you provided to because the website author wrote is not correct. I live here in Germany, not he.

I do not see anything negative about anti Bush, anti-america, etc. in those link but fact over crime rates between America and Germany.

Please use common sense.

Jiro · 05-07-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

You really are naive. A little life experiece and knowledge should serve to temper some of that judgemental attitude. And perhaps paying a little closer attention to what you are learning in that psychology class.

Perhaps you should come live in city all your life. Based on what I read about you, seems like you're one of those moms who want to build Great Wall of China around your children. It's too dangerous to drive. It's too dangerous to walk at night. Public schools' full of ugly bullies and pervert teachers. I don't mean to insult you but you did it first. If you wish to shield your children from the world, that's fine. My life experience and knowledge have taught me to be strong and have common sense with logic. I've seen all ugly stuff that no children should witness. I've traveled to foreign nations including Europe and Asia where some area are so pissant poor that they'll kill you just for 1 spoon of rice. My next trip is to South Africa or perhaps couple of dangerous countries in South America. Just need to save up money!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Ah, your psychology professor. What level of psychology are you taking? What course? How many courses in statistics and methods have you taken? Or are you in your first year of an introductory course? That would be my asessment.

PSYCH 101 and 102

I'm a college grad (in 2 weeks) with extensive background in IT, geography, math, and demography. and a bit of it in political science and humanity. took me 6 years and I'm old enough to be freshman student's uncle.....

I gain my insight and experience based on lengthy discussions with brilliant people like professors, experts, and fellow colleagues. That is how my political view became Centrist. You lean far left and there are others who lean far right (the one who believes gays are corrupting the youth and should hang people). I listen to both side and come up with my own which is in the middle that both side has to compromises. You say you want to ban death penalty because it's against your moral and such. Other said they want to keep it for vengeance. My side? Keep it. why? because there has been NO EVIDENCE that we have wrongfully-executed an innocent. As far as I'm concerned, handful of wrongfully-convicted on death rows have been exonerated. Shit happens but that doesn't mean we should abolish it completely. Why don't we abolish cars too? It caused global warming and it kills more people than guns and death penalty combined!! Our world will come to doom in 2020 if we keep up with this rate. we all will be flooded to death!!! Silly, right? How do we come to agreement? We keep the car and improve our mileage or improve our driving habits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And since you claimed that psychopathology is not evidence of mental illness, you might want to check that one out with that psychology professor of yours. Another error on your part, but I'm sure your professor can set you straight.

I merely quoted what FBI Special Agent John P. Skillestead said - "a lot of people don't realize that there's a lot of people doing this work day in and day out, killing an estimated 14,000 people a year, most serial killers are 'normal' and have very high intelligence levels."

so why should I believe you more than him? unless... your psychology background is in criminology or something related or you have testified at court relating to criminal psychology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You offer me Criminals Gone Wild as valid research and support for your arguments? LOL!

LOL yea. I did not say it's a valid research and support for my argument. Just something to watch. I find it hilarious too but the video was quite appalling. It might give you a different perspective. It's certainly better than a psychologist who studied and come up with theories but has never seen or experienced the elements in real life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Sweetie, this is an opinion paper. It supports nothing. And try to use Wiki as your support and they will laugh you out of court. Bring in an opinion paper, and they will ask you if you have lost your mind.

I'm still waiting for you to supply those computations you promised.

Obviously, you are jsut beginning in your education, and are unaware of how little you have learned and how much more you need to learn before you present a convincing argument based on subjects you do not have a grasp of.

When you have obtained data from an agency, you didn't perform the computation. The computations were performed prior to the data being released. You simply read the analyzed data. Taht is hardly a computation. And it is subject to your interpretation, anc correct interpretation is based on extensive knowledge regarding what one is attempting to interpret.

Your advise on "how to do it" is totally useless to me. I've been "doing it" for many years.

I've analyzed the FBI data and I looked at their criteria. It's within acceptable range so I use it. For example - what falls under violent crime are four offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. I used the data limited to murder and manslaughters. I also compiled the data of murder/manslaughter to each state with no death penalty and state with death penalty. I explained that it is misleading to say states w/ no death penalty have less crimes than states w/ death penalty because the states with death penalty have much greater population density and have highly populated urban areas. Does that satisfy you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I think you misunderstood. Just because a source from Wiki lists references does not indicate that the individual posting has the expertise needed to properly interpret those resources, nor that they even read them. Like I said, Wiki is not reliable. When one is researching a topic, one uses the actual sources, not someone else's interpretation of those resources, and particularly not when the credentials of the person supplying the information on Wiki cannot be confirmed. As I said, Wiki is not reliable. Use it as a reference in a college level paper, and the professor will laugh.

And, sweetie, I have not only written thousands of essays in my time, I have also done hundreds of research papers. I have also written research reports for professional presentation.

That's why I don't use source from it. Wiki is just a good place to begin but it's not my main support. I use data from agencies and I also used data from non-profit organizations like ACLU and Amnesty International so I can determine the +/- error rate and such.

PowerON · 05-07-2008, 03:20 PM

In the country without death penalty

Judge You have kill 2 innocent girls. Your sentence shall be for a life.

2 days later....

Judge What? You're back after you escape and kill 4 more innocent girls. Oh dear, you shall have to send to one of most strict and more security prison.

a week later...

Judge You've escape from the prison? Amazing! You have kill 10 more innocent girls. What should I do with you?!?

Jiro · 05-07-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

In the country without death penalty

Judge You have kill 2 innocent girls. Your sentence shall be for a life.

2 days later....

Judge What? You're back after you escape and kill 4 more innocent girls. Oh dear, you shall have to send to one of most strict and more security prison.

a week later...

Judge You've escape from the prison? Amazing! You have kill 10 more innocent girls. What should I do with you?!?

Liebling:-))) · 05-07-2008, 03:35 PM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Exactly. You found one biased site that promoted their cause and your viewpoint.

It´s not my problem if you refuse to see it.

Quote:

I don't know what you're talking about; I'm not as anal as you think--I don't read each and every post in AD.

Anyway, if you want to know how I would feel if my child was murdered, the answer is I would be devastated. I don't know if I could even think or act rationally.

I can see that you misinterpreted my post... Thank you for let me know what kind of person you are.

Quote:

So? What's wrong with that? Sometimes we have to take a stand in our beliefs. We can't sit on the fence forever.

I am allow to voice my POV why I take both sides. so?

Quote:

So? I'm sorry that the killer's parents have to suffer for the sins of their offspring but that doesn't mean we should go easy on the killer.

wow... I said no more further.

Quote:

Assumption about what? Asking you what? What are you talking about?

Why should I repeat when I already explain in my previous post?

Quote:

You said, "I bet you would want justice to put him/her to jail for rest of life."

So?

Quote:

You made the assumption that every parent would want to do things the same way. You made the "bet", not me.

No, I made opposite because someone brought up to question us how we reacts if our child is murder. I am trying to convince everyone why I take both sides because every including victim and killer have parents.

Quote:

I merely replied, "You might lose that bet." That means, you might be wrong in your assumption.

Quote:

I'm not disputing your feelings. You are entitled to your feelings about your own experiences. But that doesn't mean you can assume that other people would have the same feelings or make the same decisions.

Really? Interesting... I assume that you don´t bother to read some links, I provided about murder victim´s families´s life experience. Their experience are almost similar to me in real life situation.

Quote:

Since I didn't assume anything about anything, I don't know how to respond.

Yes you have. Look at your own word. "You really don't know how other parents would react. You can't base other people's feelings and thoughts on your own."

jillio · 05-07-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

Perhaps you should come live in city all your life. Based on what I read about you, seems like you're one of those moms who want to build Great Wall of China around your children. It's too dangerous to drive. It's too dangerous to walk at night. Public schools' full of ugly bullies and pervert teachers. I don't mean to insult you but you did it first. If you wish to shield your children from the world, that's fine. My life experience and knowledge have taught me to be strong and have common sense with logic. I've seen all ugly stuff that no children should witness. I've traveled to foreign nations including Europe and Asia where some area are so pissant poor that they'll kill you just for 1 spoon of rice. My next trip is to South Africa or perhaps couple of dangerous countries in South America. Just need to save up money!

PSYCH 101 and 102

I'm a college grad (in 2 weeks) with extensive background in IT, geography, math, and demography. and a bit of it in political science and humanity. took me 6 years and I'm old enough to be freshman student's uncle.....

I gain my insight and experience based on lengthy discussions with brilliant people like professors, experts, and fellow colleagues. That is how my political view became Centrist. You lean far left and there are others who lean far right (the one who believes gays are corrupting the youth and should hang people). I listen to both side and come up with my own which is in the middle that both side has to compromises. You say you want to ban death penalty because it's against your moral and such. Other said they want to keep it for vengeance. My side? Keep it. why? because there has been NO EVIDENCE that we have wrongfully-executed an innocent. As far as I'm concerned, handful of wrongfully-convicted on death rows have been exonerated. Shit happens but that doesn't mean we should abolish it completely. Why don't we abolish cars too? It caused global warming and it kills more people than guns and death penalty combined!! Our world will come to doom in 2020 if we keep up with this rate. we all will be flooded to death!!! Silly, right? How do we come to agreement? We keep the car and improve our mileage or improve our driving habits.

I merely quoted what FBI Special Agent John P. Skillestead said - "a lot of people don't realize that there's a lot of people doing this work day in and day out, killing an estimated 14,000 people a year, most serial killers are 'normal' and have very high intelligence levels."

so why should I believe you more than him? unless... your psychology background is in criminology or something related or you have testified at court relating to criminal psychology.

LOL yea. I did not say it's a valid research and support for my argument. Just something to watch. I find it hilarious too but the video was quite appalling. It might give you a different perspective. It's certainly better than a psychologist who studied and come up with theories but has never seen or experienced the elements in real life.

I've analyzed the FBI data and I looked at their criteria. It's within acceptable range so I use it. For example - what falls under violent crime are four offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. I used the data limited to murder and manslaughters. I also compiled the data of murder/manslaughter to each state with no death penalty and state with death penalty. I explained that it is misleading to say states w/ no death penalty have less crimes than states w/ death penalty because the states with death penalty have much greater population density and have highly populated urban areas. Does that satisfy you?

That's why I don't use source from it. Wiki is just a good place to begin but it's not my main support. I use data from agencies and I also used data from non-profit organizations like ACLU and Amnesty International so I can determine the +/- error rate and such.

You have just explained all of the inconsistencies and fallacies in your arguments. Exactly as I thought. Naive and ill informed.

And you are still not grasping what you are being told. As I explained to you prior, the population density is accounted for in the statistical anlysis of the data. That's what per capita refers to. So it is not misleading in the least, but accurate based on per capita analysis. Does that satisfy you?

Ah, but you did use Wiki as a source in your argument. Actually, you used it several times. Therefore, this is just one more inconsistency.

Re: your assessment of Leibling's parenting style and motives: this is just another case of you attempting to make assessments without sufficient knowledge or expertise. Introductory psychology hardly qualifies you to make such assessments. In fact, it is my experience that into courses don't qualify you to do anything except be very, very confused about what you think you have learned. That is why it is necessary to go beyond the into level to develop understanding and application.

And BTW, FBI agents do not have expertise in diagnosing, either.

Additionally, your judgemental tendencies leave you decidedly to the right, not in the center.

You still have not provided the computations. Which statistical formulae did you use? Why did you choose that particular analysis? Why did you find it justifiable to perform additional analysis on already analyzed data? Was this a post-hoc, and if so, what was your justification for doing a post-hoc? All you have supplied so far is that you have categorized previosly analyzed data. Categorization is not the same as analysis.

jillio · 05-07-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

In the country without death penalty

Judge You have kill 2 innocent girls. Your sentence shall be for a life.

2 days later....

Judge What? You're back after you escape and kill 4 more innocent girls. Oh dear, you shall have to send to one of most strict and more security prison.

a week later...

Judge You've escape from the prison? Amazing! You have kill 10 more innocent girls. What should I do with you?!?

Oh, yeah, that happens every day. Stop watching so much T.V., Poweron!

PowerON · 05-07-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Oh, yeah, that happens every day. Stop watching so much T.V., Poweron!

But, I spent only 4% of my time on TV.

Reba · 05-07-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

It´s not my problem if you refuse to see it.

I did see and read your linked website.

Quote:

I can see that you misinterpreted my post... Thank you for let me know what kind of person you are.

?!

Quote:

I am allow to voice my POV why I take both sides. so?

It's a free country.

Quote:

wow... I said no more further.

Good.

Quote:

Why should I repeat when I already explain in my previous post?

Why, indeed?

Quote:

Really? Interesting... I assume that you don´t bother to read some links, I provided about murder victim´s families´s life experience. Their experience are almost similar to me in real life situation.

There you go, making assumptions again.

Quote:

Yes you have. Look at your own word. "You really don't know how other parents would react. You can't base other people's feelings and thoughts on your own."

Exactly, just as I said. No one can know how other people will feel or react just based on their own feelings or actions.

Liebling:-))) · 05-07-2008, 04:08 PM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It's a free country.

Then next time, don´t tell me off.

[quote]

Quote:

Good.

If any happened to you one day.. .then you will not say anything more. ´That´s why I prefer to look at both sides because every have parents.

Quote:

Why, indeed?

There you go, making assumptions again.

See your own posts.

Quote:

Exactly, just as I said. No one can know how other people will feel or react just based on their own feelings or actions.

Exactly, you made an assumption because you think I don´t know what kind of feeling the people have. I do because I have feeling.

Liebling:-))) · 05-07-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Re: your assessment of Leibling's parenting style and motives: this is just another case of you attempting to make assessments without sufficient knowledge or expertise. Introductory psychology hardly qualifies you to make such assessments. In fact, it is my experience that into courses don't qualify you to do anything except be very, very confused about what you think you have learned. That is why it is necessary to go beyond the into level to develop understanding and application.

I choose to not take jiro123´s post serious because his/her post make no sense over parental issues. It shows her/his lack of knowledge and feeling. This is so.

jillio · 05-07-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I choose to not take jiro123´s post serious because his/her post make no sense over parental issues. It shows her/his lack of knowledge and feeling. This is so.

YW!

Reba · 05-07-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Then next time, don´t tell me off.

Quote:

If any happened to you one day.. .then you will not say anything more. ´That´s why I prefer to look at both sides because every have parents.

Quote:

See your own posts.

Quote:

Exactly, you made an assumption because you think I don´t know what kind of feeling the people have. I do because I have feeling.

OK. Tell me what I'm feeling right now; it shouldn't be difficult.

Liebling:-))) · 05-07-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

OK. Tell me what I'm feeling right now; it shouldn't be difficult.

Okay

Liebling:-))) · 05-07-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

YW!

What´s an abbrevation word for YW? I am trying to figure out... Do you mean "You Welcome"... Right?

05-07-2008, 03:20 PM	#367 (permalink)
PowerON Please don't click me! D: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Would like to live at Fort Davis, TX Posts: 4,272 Blog Entries: 1	In the country without death penalty Judge You have kill 2 innocent girls. Your sentence shall be for a life. 2 days later.... Judge What? You're back after you escape and kill 4 more innocent girls. Oh dear, you shall have to send to one of most strict and more security prison. a week later... Judge You've escape from the prison? Amazing! You have kill 10 more innocent girls. What should I do with you?!? __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

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05-07-2008, 02:54 PM	#362 (permalink)
Cowpuppy Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On The Road Again Posts: 375	People respond differently to situations....differnet kinds of murder crimes....different victimizations......some people respond differently once perp is snuffed out. It's not meant to be a perfect system...it's too emotional; to satisfy everyone or anyone for that matter. There is never complete satisfaction. Just becasue someones family was victimized doesn't mean that person has the right to speak for the entire society.....as much as it does hurt.......others want thier say, too. It's part of life....stuff happens. No perfect system....no real revenge. No winners or happiness in it.

05-07-2008, 05:26 PM	#380 (permalink)
Jiro YOU DOMESTIC DISSENT! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 4,805