A woman's right?

dreama · 03-15-2008, 04:12 PM

Many people who are pro abortion believe it is a woman's right to do what they want with their own bodies. Dispite the fact that the baby is not part of their body, merely inside it. Plus you will find that women can't do what they want with their bodies. Not even to have it sterilized unless you have kids first even if you don't want kids.

We've already got posts to discuss the ethics of abortion. This one is to discuss wether abortion really does have anything to do with woman's rights since loads of women are pro life and loads of men are pro abortion.

I also want to add a poll to this topic asking people who've actually had abortions if they did it of their own choice or wetehre they were presurized into doing it. And if they went ahead with an unplanned pregnancy wether anyone tried to presurize them into an abortion as I know this happens too. I hope it comes out as I can't find where to put poll options.

jillio · 03-15-2008, 04:31 PM

But the point is that a blastocyst, an embryo, and a fetus all have the potential to be a separate being, but are dependent upon the woman's body for survival. None can survive independently prior to the point of viability. So, yes, the woman has a right to decide whether or not she chooses to serve as a host. Moral issues aside, she has already been given the legal right to make that decision.

dreama · 03-15-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

But the point is that a blastocyst, an embryo, and a fetus all have the potential to be a separate being,

They don't just have the potential to be a seperate human being, they ARE seperate. Just because they are inside the woman's body doesn't mean they are part of it. If someone entered your home you you would not have the right to kill them wether you felt they were welcome or not.

Yes, a woman may legally be alowed to abort but that doesn't make it moral and it doesn't always follow that It was entirely her choice.

Moderators: Could you edit my first post for me please to state that only people who have either had an abortion or an unplanned pregnancy can use this poll.

PuyoPiyo · 03-15-2008, 06:05 PM

Well my opinion, it's wrong for someone to speak the women out from decide for herself. But I do agree with Dreama that the fetus inside woman's body doesn't mean it is part of woman, the baby and woman is seperately no matter what to me.

iaskedalice09 · 03-15-2008, 06:10 PM

I prefer pro-choice, not pro-abortion. The foetus is totally dependent on the woman's body, it is equivalent to a tumour. Whether or not the woman chooses to carry it to conception is her choice. The issue for me isn't really women's rights per se; obviously, it IS a women's rights issue but it is more a privacy rights thing for me. Do we really want the government to interfere with private health-care decisions? For me, NO.

GarnetTigerMom · 03-15-2008, 06:55 PM

Actually, it the woman's choice to do what she want with her body to abort the fetus. We don't have the right to judge a woman's desicion. So, whatever reasons she have to abort the fetus, it her bussiness and no one else's business. Abortion is put there for a reason for women and teenage girls to have a choice. But whatever the desicion a woman or teenagers decide to do, I have to respect that. If it is a religions reason a woman can't abort, I have to respect that also. I don't pass judgement on them. It best to let them make their own choices.

shel90 · 03-15-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

Actually, it the woman's choice to do what she want with her body to abort the fetus. We don't have the right to judge a woman's desicion. So, whatever reasons she have to abort the fetus, it her bussiness and no one else's business. Abortion is put there for a reason for women and teenage girls to have a choice. But whatever the desicion a woman or teenagers decide to do, I have to respect that. If it is a religions reason a woman can't abort, I have to respect that also. I don't pass judgement on them. It best to let them make their own choices.

I dont like the idea of abortion but I know it is not my place to tell the women what to do with their bodies.

I had an unplanned pregnancy but everyone supported my choice to keep it.

jillio · 03-15-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

They don't just have the potential to be a seperate human being, they ARE seperate. Just because they are inside the woman's body doesn't mean they are part of it. If someone entered your home you you would not have the right to kill them wether you felt they were welcome or not.

Yes, a woman may legally be alowed to abort but that doesn't make it moral and it doesn't always follow that It was entirely her choice.

Moderators: Could you edit my first post for me please to state that only people who have either had an abortion or an unplanned pregnancy can use this poll.

No, dreama, they are not separate beings until they are born and the umbillical cord is cut, and certainly not prior to the point of viability. In your original post, you stated about whether the woman had the right, not from a moral standpoint. So the answer is, yes, she does have the right, as the law says she does. You can hardly compare an intruder in your home that poses a probable threat and is a living breathing adult to a blastocyst or an embryo. That's just silly.

jillio · 03-15-2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I dont like the idea of abortion but I know it is not my place to tell the women what to do with their bodies.

I had an unplanned pregnancy but everyone supported my choice to keep it.

Exactly. If you want support for your right to choose , then you must support others right to choose, as well. It is a decision every woman must make for herself, and thank God, the law provides that opportunity to make the choice. If you disagree with abortion, then simply do not have one. It is your choice to make. But just because it is your choice for yourself, does not mean that you have the moral or the legal grounds to force your choice on another.

GarnetTigerMom · 03-16-2008, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I dont like the idea of abortion but I know it is not my place to tell the women what to do with their bodies.

I had an unplanned pregnancy but everyone supported my choice to keep it.

Yep,, young teenagers is different story u know.

Liebling:-))) · 03-16-2008, 02:42 AM

I voted: I had an unplanned pregnancy but everyone supported my choice to keep it.

I had an unplanned pregnancy with my 2nd son. I want to wait until my 1st son goes Kindergarten then... surprisely it comes... and keep it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

Actually, it the woman's choice to do what she want with her body to abort the fetus. We don't have the right to judge a woman's desicion. So, whatever reasons she have to abort the fetus, it her bussiness and no one else's business. Abortion is put there for a reason for women and teenage girls to have a choice. But whatever the desicion a woman or teenagers decide to do, I have to respect that. If it is a religions reason a woman can't abort, I have to respect that also. I don't pass judgement on them. It best to let them make their own choices.

Quote:

Yep,, young teenagers is different story u know.

Actually but I would not force them anything what they want but support their wish. I would educate them cons/pros about their future... etc. and give them time to think about...

Liebling:-))) · 03-16-2008, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Exactly. If you want support for your right to choose , then you must support others right to choose, as well. It is a decision every woman must make for herself, and thank God, the law provides that opportunity to make the choice. If you disagree with abortion, then simply do not have one. It is your choice to make. But just because it is your choice for yourself, does not mean that you have the moral or the legal grounds to force your choice on another.

Exactly, respect their decision instead of judge them as selfish, murder, etc.

Liebling:-))) · 03-16-2008, 02:46 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Well my opinion, it's wrong for someone to speak the women out from decide for herself.

Exactly, that´s why I am pro-choice. It´s not my place to judge their decision.

Quote:

But I do agree with Dreama that the fetus inside woman's body doesn't mean it is part of woman, the baby and woman is seperately no matter what to me.

No, the fetus depend on the woman´s body.

shel90 · 03-16-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

Yep,, young teenagers is different story u know.

My unplanned pregnancy occurred when I was 24 years old not as a teenager.

GarnetTigerMom · 03-16-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I voted: I had an unplanned pregnancy but everyone supported my choice to keep it.

I had an unplanned pregnancy with my 2nd son. I want to wait until my 1st son goes Kindergarten then... surprisely it comes... and keep it...

Actually but I would not force them anything what they want but support their wish. I would educate them cons/pros about their future... etc. and give them time to think about...

Thanks dear.

GarnetTigerMom · 03-16-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

My unplanned pregnancy occurred when I was 24 years old not as a teenager.

I had unplanned pregnacy.. but I could have been pregnant if I were a teenagers would be lot harder than it is for adult. But I love my child no matter what. She became the most important person in my life and changed me. Even if the father is a jerk.

dreama · 03-17-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No, dreama, they are not separate beings.

Yes, I believe they are seperate beings. So I totally disagree with what you are saying.

I'm all for woman being allowed to do what they want with their bodies. They can pierce it, tatoo it, use plastic surgery on it and and even remove bits if that's what they want. But I think the government MUST do something if the woman wants to kill her own child. To me it is irevlent wether this murder takes place before or after birth.

Plus I also don't believe that it's the woman's choice because often the woman experiences pressure to abort and althought I've never been in this possision. I have been in a possition where I was afraid of who I was living with. Being slapped around and having your head slammed in doors does have the result of making you extremely bidable.

jillio · 03-17-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Yes, I believe they are seperate beings. So I totally disagree with what you are saying.

I'm all for woman being allowed to do what they want with their bodies. They can pierce it, tatoo it, use plastic surgery on it and and even remove bits if that's what they want. But I think the government MUST do something if the woman wants to kill her own child. To me it is irevlent wether this murder takes place before or after birth.

Plus I also don't believe that it's the woman's choice because often the woman experiences pressure to abort and althought I've never been in this possision. I have been in a possition where I was afraid of who I was living with. Being slapped around and having your head slammed in doors does have the result of making you extremely bidable.

Victims of abuse suffer all sorts of emotional and mental consequences. But that has nothing to do with whether a woman is guaranteed the right by law to decide if she wants to abort an early preganancy. You are confusing the issues.

Law isn't decided on what we believe, it is decided on what can be shown to be true through fact. And the scientific facts are that a fetus is not viable at the points determined to permit elective abortion. By your definition, birth control would also be murder, as it prevents conception, thus destroying the potential for life to be created.

If a woman is so easily led that she is incapable of making up her own mind regarding something as important as whether or not to become a parent, then I suggest that she has some issues that would most likely negatively impact her ability to be a good parent.

Doug5 · 03-18-2008, 12:27 PM

I dont like abortion but I think it should be legal. People need to be more dilligent about birth control so abortion isnt even a consieration

Angel · 03-18-2008, 12:46 PM

I voted "I felt pressurized having an abortion but I went ahead and had the baby", that happened during my first pregnancy.

dreama · 03-18-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

the scientific facts are that a fetus is not viable at the points determined to permit elective abortion. By your definition, birth control would also be murder, as it prevents conception, thus destroying the potential for life to be created.

No. That's not true. The fetus is NOT just something with a potency of life. She or he IS already alive. She's got feelings and she will suffer when she is being killed by being aborted. Same as any baby would. Their ARE scientific facts to prove that unborn fetuses do feel pain. I don't really know to what extent this would apply to an embryo but for me, once the baby develops a form and a soul it's human so should have the right of life. There is nothing potential about it.

I am not against contraception.

Quote:

If a woman is so easily led that she is incapable of making up her own mind regarding something as important as whether or not to become a parent, then I suggest that she has some issues that would most likely negatively impact her ability to be a good parent.

It is part of human nature to allow people to presurize us into situations that we don't really want to be in. This is especially true when you are in love with someone. So if the bloke says it's either me or the baby and the woman is in love wit him she might kill her baby simply to please him, then spend the rest of her life regretting it.

sara1981 · 03-19-2008, 01:41 AM

i have rights for woman because that my body is choice i wanted have baby or not.

but i trust my family and my boyfriend because im not pregnant yet so my mom dont force me to abortion but i wanted have my own baby when i get married one days and i can get pregnant in my OWN rightfully! because my parents wanted to become grandparents in future to caring of our my children.Because im using Birth Control pills everyday to protect pregnant and peroid also.

mostly married woman wanted have their choice getting pregnant or not and still waiting for family in years.

jillio · 03-19-2008, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

No. That's not true. The fetus is NOT just something with a potency of life. She or he IS already alive. She's got feelings and she will suffer when she is being killed by being aborted. Same as any baby would. Their ARE scientific facts to prove that unborn fetuses do feel pain. I don't really know to what extent this would apply to an embryo but for me, once the baby develops a form and a soul it's human so should have the right of life. There is nothing potential about it.

I am not against contraception.

It is part of human nature to allow people to presurize us into situations that we don't really want to be in. This is especially true when you are in love with someone. So if the bloke says it's either me or the baby and the woman is in love wit him she might kill her baby simply to please him, then spend the rest of her life regretting it.

The point at which a fetus can experience pain has already been determined. It is after the 1st trimester. Prior to that, the nuerological development necessary has not occurred. It has been proven scientifically. Has absolutely nothing to do with beleif or emotion, but is simply a scientific fact.

If a woman chooses a man over her child, then I would suggest that she would continue to do so after the child is born. She needs to get her priorities straight. A woman who is ready to be a mother puts the child first, not the man. If she can't do that, then I suggest that she would not prove to be ready for parenthood.

dreama · 03-19-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The point at which a fetus can experience pain has already been determined. It is after the 1st trimester. Prior to that, the nuerological development necessary has not occurred. It has been proven scientifically. Has absolutely nothing to do with beleif or emotion, but is simply a scientific fact.

The fact that a fetus of at any stage can feel pain proves that it she is already a person. Not just having the potential to be one. She is actually one. Besides, they may have feeling before it can be 'scienticically proven'. It's a pity nobody can remember what it felt like in the womb. If they did they might think twice about murdering unborn babies.

Quote:

If a woman chooses a man over her child, then I would suggest that she would continue to do so after the child is born. She needs to get her priorities straight. A woman who is ready to be a mother puts the child first, not the man. If she can't do that, then I suggest that she would not prove to be ready for parenthood.

While it's certainly true that some women are not ready, it doesn't mean that it is ok to kill the baby in any state of development.

I would also like to know why a woman has this 'right' to murder the baby (which is not part of her body) yet many woman who ask to be steralized before having children are refused. Why wait for a baby to be produced before killing it. If a woman doesn't want children or is incapable of caring for them properly why wait till they become pregnant before acting. Wouldn't it be better to have steralization on demand for all women who seek it, and for it to be compulsory for child abusers, criminals and those on hard drugs?

jillio · 03-19-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

The fact that a fetus of at any stage can feel pain proves that it she is already a person. Not just having the potential to be one. She is actually one. Besides, they may have feeling before it can be 'scienticically proven'. It's a pity nobody can remember what it felt like in the womb. If they did they might think twice about murdering unborn babies.
Simply having neurological connections that allow one to feel the stimulus of pain is not an indication of viability. The ability to perceive stimuli has nothing to do with personhood. If it did, then those who suffer from a rare neurological disorder that does not permit them to perceive painful stimuli would not be people, now would they? "May have" is not the issue. What can be proven is the issue. There is a reason no one can remember what it is to be in the womb. And those reasons are directly linked to neurological and cognitive development. Hence, the reason it is called a "fetal state".

While it's certainly true that some women are not ready, it doesn't mean that it is ok to kill the baby in any state of development.
Would you prefer that those chidlren be born and suffer an exisitence full of abuse and neglect? This would occur, most definately after they are able to feel it and remember it.

I would also like to know why

View Poll Results: Were you ever presurized into having an abortion?
Yes I was presurized by my boyfriend.	1	6.25%
Yes I was presurized by my family.	3	18.75%
Yes, I was presurized by friends, the family planning or other sources.	0	0%
I felt presurized into aborting but I went ahead and had the baby.	3	18.75%
When I had my unplanned pregnancy everyone supported my choice to have the baby.	7	43.75%
No, but I wasnt that keen on keeping my baby but felt I had to as everyone I know is Pro life.	2	12.50%
I have had an abortion but it was entirely my own choice.	2	12.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

03-15-2008, 04:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
dreama deafblind vegan Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England Posts: 1,093	A woman's right? Many people who are pro abortion believe it is a woman's right to do what they want with their own bodies. Dispite the fact that the baby is not part of their body, merely inside it. Plus you will find that women can't do what they want with their bodies. Not even to have it sterilized unless you have kids first even if you don't want kids. We've already got posts to discuss the ethics of abortion. This one is to discuss wether abortion really does have anything to do with woman's rights since loads of women are pro life and loads of men are pro abortion. I also want to add a poll to this topic asking people who've actually had abortions if they did it of their own choice or wetehre they were presurized into doing it. And if they went ahead with an unplanned pregnancy wether anyone tried to presurize them into an abortion as I know this happens too. I hope it comes out as I can't find where to put poll options. __________________ I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. http://www.fightfoca.com/

03-15-2008, 06:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo My Property!! >:( Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fourth Plain Village WA Posts: 5,182	Well my opinion, it's wrong for someone to speak the women out from decide for herself. But I do agree with Dreama that the fetus inside woman's body doesn't mean it is part of woman, the baby and woman is seperately no matter what to me. __________________ Note: Not credit by myself.

03-15-2008, 06:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
iaskedalice09 Mavericky Deaf Militant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 41	I prefer pro-choice, not pro-abortion. The foetus is totally dependent on the woman's body, it is equivalent to a tumour. Whether or not the woman chooses to carry it to conception is her choice. The issue for me isn't really women's rights per se; obviously, it IS a women's rights issue but it is more a privacy rights thing for me. Do we really want the government to interfere with private health-care decisions? For me, NO. __________________ Obama/Biden 2008!

03-15-2008, 06:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
GarnetTigerMom Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,900	Actually, it the woman's choice to do what she want with her body to abort the fetus. We don't have the right to judge a woman's desicion. So, whatever reasons she have to abort the fetus, it her bussiness and no one else's business. Abortion is put there for a reason for women and teenage girls to have a choice. But whatever the desicion a woman or teenagers decide to do, I have to respect that. If it is a religions reason a woman can't abort, I have to respect that also. I don't pass judgement on them. It best to let them make their own choices. __________________ GarnetTigerMom "The rain may be falling hard outside, But your smile makes it all alright. I'm so glad that you're my friend. I know our friendship will never end." -- Robert Alan

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03-15-2008, 04:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,197	But the point is that a blastocyst, an embryo, and a fetus all have the potential to be a separate being, but are dependent upon the woman's body for survival. None can survive independently prior to the point of viability. So, yes, the woman has a right to decide whether or not she chooses to serve as a host. Moral issues aside, she has already been given the legal right to make that decision.

03-18-2008, 12:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
Doug5 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 227	I dont like abortion but I think it should be legal. People need to be more dilligent about birth control so abortion isnt even a consieration

03-18-2008, 12:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
Angel ♥"Concrete Angel"♥ Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 19,088	I voted "I felt pressurized having an abortion but I went ahead and had the baby", that happened during my first pregnancy. __________________ "When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

03-19-2008, 01:41 AM	#22 (permalink)
sara1981 Batista's fans Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Little Rock,Ar Posts: 3,291	i have rights for woman because that my body is choice i wanted have baby or not. but i trust my family and my boyfriend because im not pregnant yet so my mom dont force me to abortion but i wanted have my own baby when i get married one days and i can get pregnant in my OWN rightfully! because my parents wanted to become grandparents in future to caring of our my children.Because im using Birth Control pills everyday to protect pregnant and peroid also. mostly married woman wanted have their choice getting pregnant or not and still waiting for family in years. __________________