GarnetTigerMom

Proven numbers don't always must prove it. Some women don't want to be known or be one of those "statics" numbers. That don't means it must be proven. Whenever it true or not, it totally up to you what you want to believe. I believe it true and that not many women don't want to report a rape for lot of reasons. Probably because most unreported rape go unreported because they are scared or don't want the media to label them in the news that makes them embarrass them to their friends, families or at work. It can put a lot of strains on a person dealing with something so painful. I say I can't blame them. Most women won't even want to annouce their illegal abortions. I remebered I read a story about a actress name Margert Kidder whom used to play in Superman. She confessed that she had an abortion in the illegal way. She went to see someone to ask for help and she said she lay on the bed while a woman friend help get rid of it by using a coast hanger and give her drugs to numb the pain. But what she said didn't realized it cause a scar tissue that she can't have anymore children that she got a bad infections. So I pretty much belive her story.

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GarnetTigerMom

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Deafness

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Angel

Her name is Margot not Margert that played as Lois Lane on Superman and I'm sorry but the story you said above is not true at all, her boyfriend found an abortionist woman and made an arrangement for her to meet them at a motel. Before the woman began the abortion procedure on Margot Kidder, she told both of them if something went wrong, not to go to the hospital.

The woman told Margot to undress herself and lay in the bathtub, she filled Margot’s uterus with Lysol, she did not use a coat hanger.

She had bipolar disorder, suffered from depression, mental illness and had other health problem from a car accident in the early 90's not from an abortion. She also has a daughter named Maggie.


Whoopi Goldberg performed an abortion on herself in a park with a coat hanger at the age of 14.

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GarnetTigerMom

That okay, If I made mistake then I am sorry, But I do remember most of it not all of it what was written many years ago. I don't always keep a good memory 25 years ago. But yes you are right I had to go back to refesh my memory. Peace.

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GarnetTigerMom

"The rain may be falling hard outside,
But your smile makes it all alright.
I'm so glad that you're my friend.
I know our friendship will never end."
-- Robert Alan

Angel

25 years ago? It was written in 1991. "The Choices We Made" which described about her abortion experiences.

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

shel90

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dreama

Or they could get themselves sterilized if they want a sex life but no babies to go with it. Except if their doctor won't permit it. Isn't it strange though that murder is permitted but you are not permitted to remove any chance of getting pregnant in the first place.

Actually I'm all for a woman being allowed to do what she wants with her body but nobody has a right to kill.

I also don't believe the baby is 'her body' after its developed a proper shape. It becomes somebody else who just happens to need to use her body for the next 9 months before they can safely part company.

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GarnetTigerMom

No way, it can't be 1991, I remeber reading somewhere late 80's. Unless you and I have different update on their stories. No offense.

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GarnetTigerMom

"The rain may be falling hard outside,
But your smile makes it all alright.
I'm so glad that you're my friend.
I know our friendship will never end."
-- Robert Alan

Askjo

Absolutely true, it is a business. This business knows more than women because it does not want women to know the fact about abortion. A business demands money because in order to survive, this business keeps abortion running. This means that this business demands the murder and keeps this murder on and on..... Therefore the murder within this abortion business is continuing.

Reba, I agree with Cheri's post concerning what behind the abortion.

jillio

Yeppers. And that is exactly the kind of things we will go back to if Roe v. Wade is reversed. Women using Lysol and coathangers to perform abortions. It's going toi happen, just as it has always happened. I would thinkthat we were civilized enough in this society to at least insure that those who are going to have an abortion are able to do it in a medically safe and clean environment. Or do we only have respect for thelife of the fetus and not the mother?

Cheri

What about the life of both? Why just the mother?

I don't see why people treating a fetus as it's no life form. There's a life in the womb of the mother. a breathing life it doesn't matter if the fetus isn't fully growth.

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Byrdie714

I am going to take the devil's advocate side here....

What about adoption?

shel90

For some women, they would do anything to avoid having a baby out fear du to some situations so for them, adoption is probably out of the question in their minds.

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~Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

Angel

1st link 2nd link 3rd link


Then please read the book The Chocies We Made: Twenty-five Women and Men Speak Out About Abortion
Written By: Angela Bonavoglia, Date Published: 1991 which described Margot Kidder's abortion experience along with Whoopi Goldberg and many others.

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Angel

An artist killed herself after aborting her twins when she was eight weeks pregnant, leaving a note saying: "I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum."

Emma Beck was found hanging at her home in Helston, Cornwall, on Feb 1 2007. She was declared dead early the following day - her 31st birthday.

Her suicide note read: "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies: they need me, no-one else does."

The inquest at Truro City Hall heard that Miss Beck had split up with her boyfriend, referred to as "Ben" after he "reacted badly" to the pregnancy.

She saw her GP before the termination, but missed an appointment at a hospital in Penzance. She then cancelled, but later turned up to an appointment at a clinic at Royal Cornwall Hospital in Treliske. The counsellor was on holiday so a doctor referred Miss Beck to a pregnancy counselling telephone service eight days before carrying out the abortion when she was eight weeks pregnant, the inquest heard.

The coroner, Dr Emma Carlyon, ordered that the identities of the doctor who performed the abortion and her lead consultant be kept secret.

The inquest heard that Sylvia Beck, the victim's mother, wrote to the hospital after her daughter's death, saying: "I want to know why she was not given the opportunity to see a counsellor.

"She was only going ahead with the abortion because her boyfriend did not want the twins.

"I believe this is what led Emma to take her own life - she could not live with what she had done."

The doctor said: "I discussed Emma's situation with her, and wrote on the form, 'Unsupported, lives alone, ex-partner aware'.

"It is normal practice to give a woman the number for telephone counselling when a counsellor is not available.

"I am satisfied that everything was done to make sure that Emma consented to the operation.

She added: "We have since appointed more counsellors so there is more holiday cover."

Katie Gibbs, Miss Beck's GP, told the hearing: "She was extremely distressed by the abortion procedure, and I didn't think she ever came to terms with it.

"She had a long history of anxiety and depression. Despite my best efforts, she was not willing to see a counsellor after the termination."

Her boss at the clinic, said: "The time that can be given to a woman by a counsellor is limited in a busy hospital.

"I am satisfied everything was done to make sure Emma was consenting to surgery. I don't feel there was any gap in the counselling service.

"There were lots of individuals who would be alert to any doubts. The comments made by Emma's mother are not about a doctor I recognise."

Mrs Beck told the court: "Emma was considered a talented artist, and sold a number of paintings.

"She was pleased when she became pregnant, but Ben reacted badly to the news."

Recording a verdict of suicide, Dr Carlyon said: "It is clear that a termination can have a profound effect on a woman's life.

"But I am reassured by the evidence of the doctors here."

Source

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Aleser

I don't see how that's really.. relevant. The article clearly states she had a long history of depression, existing BEFORE she ever had an abortion. She may not have had the coping mechanisms to handle the feelings that occured after the abortion, sure, but that doesn't mean it killed her.

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JOEBIALEK

good points

dreama

I've read that story. I found it really sad and I think it goes to show how some women are pressurized into having abortions by their partners. In fact this is quite common. So much for a woman's choice.

The bit about her having past experiences of depression is in quotes. They are obviously just trying to pass the buck because she wasn't given councilling when she really needed it. It just goes to show how irresponsible these people are.

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jillio

What about it? Adoption was available prior to Roe v Wade, and women still chose illegal abortion.

jillio

Nor can it ever be determined that she would have had the emotional and mental stability to actually raise a child. Thinking about it and doing it are two separate issues.

Angel

:nodding in agreement:

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

KarissaMann05

Out of curiousity.

- How many women out of 1,000 women had abortions IN EUROPE?
- How many women out of 1,000 women had abortions IN ASIA?

I already know USA is highest rate, but I now don't remember a rate of women who have their abortions in other countries.

One shot of my thought--

I believe it's best way is:
* All schools should have an open meeting for any parent (it's after school's over or during summer break IS THE BEST OPTION, imo.), to clear their senses what positive and negative views are. We should encourage to be a little more open-mindness for general sex education, information, birth contorls, etc etc. I, again, believe in parents and children will improve their trustwhole skills and bond if they are more open-mindness.

* Adding more young parent schools/houses (or something places) to teach them well. It's not matter how old they are. I also think those students of public schools should visit young parent schools/houses, because they will realize how reality of parenthood as it suppose be.

* Elementary & preschool schools should teach children to know each name of a human body, inculding private parts. I meant, what if a strange touchs a child's private stuff and child will not understand what a strange is doing? I believe that a parent teaches a child at very young age, that would be helpful. Of course, children should know "dont talk to strangers" subject too.

* Fourth graders and middle school students should to learn how to be manner, positive behavior & attitude, and personality too. It's NOT for getting attention, "sex is cool" subject, and crazy games for some nasty stuff that I used to witness them.

I can't think of more things now.

All of above could be reduce a rate of abortions and adoptions as my own opinion.

Okay, I am done. I really dont want to see many abortions or adoptions because it's on base of personal hurtful feelings & dark scars. Unfortunately, it must be hard to reduce a rate of those, I aware that...

Hmm, thought?

PS- I know I said it again, aha. But I said it again when I got little more new ideas.

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Credit by KarissaMann05

KarissaMann05

Psst.. Don't you realize we had been talked about the same topic for quite longer time? Hmmm...

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Credit by KarissaMann05

Angel

Obviously you're missing the point, the decision to abort her twins was clearly not by her choice. If they knew her history of depression, then wouldn't allow her to go through this.

There are several women that has long history of depression, how many more women do you want to see die from attempt suicide before someone would step in and help them?

Everyone Struggles...

The feeling of a life being killed is a common thread throughout the testimonies of women before, during, and after an abortion. According to one woman, interviewed in a clinic's waiting room: "It's killing. But it justifiable homicide." Another, shortly after her abortion, says: "Like when you have an abortion you're just destroying a part of yourself. That's the way I feel anyhow. I just feel bad inside, that's all. I didn't really want to do it. It's a sin."

Still another woman, describes her feelings after an abortion, saying: "I hated myself. I felt abandoned and lost. There was no one's shoulder to cry on, and I wanted to cry like hell. And I felt guilty about killing something. I couldn't get it out of my head that I'd just killed a baby."

For some the anticipation of guilt itself moves them toward acts of self-punishment. An example of this is reported in a New York Times interview with American women who have traveled to England for RU-486 abortions. A woman from Pennsylvania explained that for her there were "psychological advantages" to the harrowing experience of repeated clinic visits for RU-486 and prostaglandin injections and in the six hours or more of labor pains to expel a dead human fetus. "I didn't want to just zip in and be put to sleep and zip out in two hours with it all done," she explains. "In a way, that would have been too easy. This was a big painful decision for me. I would have felt irresponsible if it had just been over with like that. I wanted to remember this all my life. I never want to do it again."

For this woman the price for an abortion must be measured in something more than negotiable currency. The act must be etched in one's memory with proper solemnity. Physical and emotional pain are the only fitting tributes which can be made to a life denied.

Even for those who deny the humanity of their unborn child, there is a often an admission that this denial can be maintained only by a conscious effort. For example, one woman writes: "I didn't think of it as a baby. I just didn't want to think of it that way."

Another insists that denial is the only way to deal with it: "I made up my mind to do it, and like I could let it drive me crazy, any woman could, but you can't, because you've got to live with it and there's really no sense in letting it drive you right off the edge."8

For others, even the process of discussing their experience threatens their precarious equilibrium. For example, one woman interviewed in a clinic as she awaited her third abortion at first insisted she had adjusted well to her first two abortions, but then she went on to describe experiencing symptoms which are now identified as part of post-abortion syndrome. She found herself confessing that she had developed a compulsive fascination with other people's children, outbursts of rage, and periods of depression and substance abuse. As she heard herself describing these problems, which she herself attributed to her previous abortions, she began to doubt what she should believe, finally concluding: "Maybe I should go to a psychiatrist, but I really don't have the money or the interest. Truth is hard to take, and I just don't know if I'm ready for it."

What is the truth, which she already knows, but is too "hard to take?" Abortion destroys a human life. Moreover, this life is her own child. This human life is also the progeny of her male partner. And their parents. And their grandparents. In this way, abortion is even more than a profound moral issue; it is a familial issue. The abortion experience not only defines how she sees herself, it also defines how she sees her family.