Abortion - Page 3

Reba · 02-01-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And will die in doing so, just as women lost their lives seeking illegal abortions before Woe v Wade.

Was that a Freudian slip?

Quote:

That woman's life is just as valuable as any. The problem with anti-abortion is that it puts more value on the fetus than on the living woman.

Not true. I've never said that a woman's life is not valuable. I've said that if abortion is the only medical way to save the mother's life, then it may be done as a last resort.

GarnetTigerMom · 02-01-2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

GarnetTigerMom, it looks like you didn't read Mann_K05's post carefully as PuyoPiyo was trying to correct Mann_K05's post by saying her friend did not have an abortion but a miscarriage. He did not compare abortion to miscarriage nor said it was the same thing either.

Please re-read her post below.

Yes I read that and I feel sorry for her. Lot of time doctors do have to remove the dead fetus by sugery. But what I am trying to point out that abortion and miscarriage are just two different thing that all. So Sugery not nesscitary means abort. It more like removing a bad part of the body that need to be cleaned out. :-)

GarnetTigerMom · 02-01-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

"The mother was raped and had two twin girls, she kept one of girls because of her second child had the mother's facial feature. The other girl was sent to forest with a blindfold by the mother, because of the firstborn was looked like her father a lot. The mother never wanted her or loved her firstborn daughter, but she dearly loved and wanted her second daughter.

That bastard child was just abounded in a forest for a while until she took a blindfold off, she realized she was all alone.. She had to search all the way to find a place where she was lived in.. until the bastard child found a town and was adopted by loving family.

Now, she was happily married and have only child, and her descendant was growing and growing. The twin girl, who looked like her father, had about 610 people in her descendant, and they were very thankful for they are existed." - G.C.K. in the book

Now.. If that twin girl is at the present time, I am sure her mother definitely aborts her bastard child, due to rape action, and the twin child will lost about 610 people in her descendant.

But, so what, right? Because a child is not really vaule at all?

If so, then we are in our mothers' wombs and we are nothing but low fetuses, in my opinion.

I am sorry that the mother give away her first born daughter cuz she was raped. But to me I am a mother and I know what like to be raped but I would never ever give up my child or give away my child over rape. That child is part of me no matter what. I love my daughter no matter what. I thank god everyday what a beautiful little baby girl I have. But glad her father not around since he not allow anywhere near me or my child. I could never abort my child. But I do however respect women's choice if they deicded to have abortion it up to them and that their choice. Every woman always will make a hard choice in life. Lot of choices we make in life is always tough and never easy to make the right or the wrong choice.

Askjo · 02-01-2008, 09:39 PM

The difference between the abortion and the saving the life of a mother is how much???? Most women want the abortion for WHAT? Sex? Irresponsibility? Can't afford? Immature? Her parents will find out? Whatsoever? But a mother gave up her life for for her baby's sake.

The reason for the abortion is that many Doctors make big money and smell green paper -- $$$$$.

In the USA -- Abortion -- 99%??? Giving up the life and save a baby -- 1%??? Is the abortion an excuse?

GarnetTigerMom · 02-01-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askjo

The difference between the abortion and the saving the life of a mother is how much???? Most women want the abortion for WHAT? Sex? Irresponsibility? Can't afford? Immature? Her parents who will find out? Whatsoever? But a mother gave up her life for for her baby's sake.

The reason for the abortion is that many Doctors make big money and smell green paper -- $$$$$.

In the USA -- Abortion -- 99%??? Giving up the life and save a baby -- 1%??? Is the abortion an excuse?

It not just the sex, women abort because of rape or health problems if the woman is cripple or have spinel injury, or if she using drugs or drinking or not ready to be a mother that understandable. I am sure lot of women have their own personal reasons to have abortions so really it their business what they do with their bodies. I can't judge them for what they do. I have known lot of women abort, so all I can do is be a supportive friend and be there for them. I can't judge them or talk them out of it. Once a person make up her mind I can't stop her. So, I am sure lot of women have regrets and some don't have any regret. It a choice they have to live with it.

KarissaMann05 · 02-01-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

I am sorry that the mother give away her first born daughter cuz she was raped. But to me I am a mother and I know what like to be raped but I would never ever give up my child or give away my child over rape. That child is part of me no matter what. I love my daughter no matter what. I thank god everyday what a beautiful little baby girl I have. But glad her father not around since he not allow anywhere near me or my child. I could never abort my child. But I do however respect women's choice if they deicded to have abortion it up to them and that their choice. Every woman always will make a hard choice in life. Lot of choices we make in life is always tough and never easy to make the right or the wrong choice.

Wow. Thank you for sharing with me

I think I understand some more..

I am actually trying to understand abortion and adoption that each woman/girl choose. Sometimes, I dont understand why they have abortions.

Again, your comment is touchy me and thank you for sharing.

PS- I realized I skipped a few words "in 1300's" and "in the old time" in my pervious comment. Aha, my bad..

KarissaMann05 · 02-01-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

It not just the sex, women abort because of rape or health problems if the woman is cripple or have spinel injury, or if she using drugs or drinking or not ready to be a mother that understandable. I am sure lot of women have their own personal reasons to have abortions so really it their business what they do with their bodies. I can't judge them for what they do. I have known lot of women abort, so all I can do is be a supportive friend and be there for them. I can't judge them or talk them out of it. Once a person make up her mind I can't stop her. So, I am sure lot of women have regrets and some don't have any regret. It a choice they have to live with it.

GTM is right.

It's not because of sex. That's what I try to understand why.

GarnetTigerMom · 02-01-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

Wow. Thank you for sharing with me

I think I understand some more..

I am actually trying to understand abortion and adoption that each woman/girl choose. Sometimes, I dont understand why they have abortions.

Again, your comment is touchy me and thank you for sharing.

PS- I realized I skipped a few words "in 1300's" and "in the old time" in my pervious comment. Aha, my bad..

You are welcome,, ha but don't feel bad about you skipped a few words we all make mistake lol. I am not perfect either. :-)

Babyblue · 02-01-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

Yes I read that and I feel sorry for her. Lot of time doctors do have to remove the dead fetus by sugery. But what I am trying to point out that abortion and miscarriage are just two different thing that all. So Sugery not nesscitary means abort. It more like removing a bad part of the body that need to be cleaned out. :-)

That is when they have to do a D and C.

D & C Procedure after a Miscarriage : American Pregnancy Association

They use the same method for Abortions and for Miscarriages

GarnetTigerMom · 02-01-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askjo

The difference between the abortion and the saving the life of a mother is how much???? Most women want the abortion for WHAT? Sex? Irresponsibility? Can't afford? Immature? Her parents will find out? Whatsoever? But a mother gave up her life for for her baby's sake.

The reason for the abortion is that many Doctors make big money and smell green paper -- $$$$$.

In the USA -- Abortion -- 99%??? Giving up the life and save a baby -- 1%??? Is the abortion an excuse?

Oh one more I forgot to add to you,, when a women get pregnant accidently or just happen. So really the guy should also take responbility for his share of mistake instead of blaming it on the woman. I have seen lot of guys don't want the responbilities and they run from it. Lots of them are dead beat fathers out there and lots of them I know are immature. So it lot for a woman who is pregnant to take on lot of repsonilites all by herself. Some men are not always honest when it come to relationship or ever they are using the woman for their own personal fun. It a turn off.

Askjo · 02-01-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

It not just the sex, women abort because of rape or health problems if the woman is cripple or have spinel injury, or if she using drugs or drinking or not ready to be a mother that understandable. I am sure lot of women have their own personal reasons to have abortions so really it their business what they do with their bodies. I can't judge them for what they do. I have known lot of women abort, so all I can do is be a supportive friend and be there for them. I can't judge them or talk them out of it. Once a person make up her mind I can't stop her. So, I am sure lot of women have regrets and some don't have any regret. It a choice they have to live with it.

Rape - How percent? Health problems - How percent? Cripped and Spinal injury - what about C-section? Many women made their foolish excuses by using drugs and being drunkard then they had abortion.

Quote:

Oh one more I forgot to add to you,, when a women get pregnant accidently or just happen. So really the guy should also take responbility for his share of mistake instead of blaming it on the woman. I have seen lot of guys don't want the responbilities and they run from it. Lots of them are dead beat fathers out there and lots of them I know are immature. So it lot for a woman who is pregnant to take on lot of repsonilites all by herself. Some men are not always honest when it come to relationship or ever they are using the woman for their own personal fun. It a turn off.

OOPS???

KarissaMann05 · 02-01-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

You are welcome,, ha but don't feel bad about you skipped a few words we all make mistake lol. I am not perfect either. :-)

heh heh okay

GarnetTigerMom · 02-01-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askjo

Rape - How percent? Health problems - How percent? Cripped and Spinal injury - what about C-section? Many women made their foolish excuses by using drugs and being drunkard then they had abortion.

OOPS???

Use your common sense... it not about percentage. It about the "facts". C-section is used only if the baby is in the wrong position inside the womb or the baby too big or the mother's health can be at risk if she having heart problem or other health issue that pops up. This is not about women making foolish choices. If you think is just the women making foolish choices.. then it the men who makes foolish choices to run and hide and not take responbilities for their own mistake getting woman pregnant. Why should the woman get all the blame from a guy? That pretty dumb!

jillio · 02-01-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I never said that you can't be pro-choice. I said that abortions, except for medical necessity to save the life of the mother, are morally wrong.

Like you said, abortions are legal in the United States.

Like I said, legality and morality don't always equate.

Just so you clarify, you need to add IMO on that statement, because, morality is, after all, a personal decision. As long as the operation is legal, it is for each and everyone to determine their own moral stance. "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged."

DURAY · 02-01-2008, 10:52 PM

Feminists (who hate men in general) and Peter Singer of Princeton have been successful in having disabled fetus being aborted. How are we gonna grow as a deaf community if there are less deaf babies, less deaf kids and less deaf adults?
the group Not Yet Dead really hated rich highly-educated liberal Democrats for not doing more to save PWDs....

jillio · 02-01-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Was that a Freudian slip?

Not true. I've never said that a woman's life is not valuable. I've said that if abortion is the only medical way to save the mother's life, then it may be done as a last resort.

Nope, LOL, just a simple typo!

Foxrac · 02-02-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schermy

You might be right.

Well, You don't have to debate or keep debate with other members, it's your choice to not want debate, that fine.

Just like me, If I don't feel like to debate or keep debate then I would ignore or marked as end of story to end the debate, this section is about on-topic debate that allowed us to choice to debate, if we don't want debate then tell them to enough or ignore them.

At overall, I'm agree with all of your post, great point.

Byrdie714 · 02-02-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askjo

Did I talk about a rapist? What about boyfriend or husband?

Boyfriend has no right what to say as they are not married. Unless the boyfriend can convince her to carry it full-term and that he is willing to forgo child support on the woman's part. But face it, most men aren't maternal enough to take care of children.

Husband should have a say as they are married. Chances are if a woman is going to have an abortion, she already has her husband's support.

Now answer my question: what about the rapist? Does the rapist have a right to say if she should have an abortion or not?

Secretblend · 02-02-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Boyfriend has no right what to say as they are not married. Unless the boyfriend can convince her to carry it full-term and that he is willing to forgo child support on the woman's part. But face it, most men aren't maternal enough to take care of children.

Why would she want him to forgo his child support? She should expect him to pay child support!

Quote:

Originally Posted by byrdie714

Husband should have a say as they are married. Chances are if a woman is going to have an abortion, she already has her husband's support.

Now answer my question: what about the rapist? Does the rapist have a right to say if she should have an abortion or not?

The rapist won't even care if she is pregnant or not. Of course he has no right to any kind of opinion or say since he violated her.

PuyoPiyo · 02-02-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Boyfriend has no right what to say as they are not married. Unless the boyfriend can convince her to carry it full-term and that he is willing to forgo child support on the woman's part.

I respectfully disagree.. Depends on the relationship between boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife, it doesn't matter if they are married or not, it's still between them. It was the boyfriend/husband who impregnanted the girlfriend/wife, and the girlfriend/wife do need boyfriend/husband's assistance for her about the decision for the baby because the boyfriend/husband and family was the only people that girlfriend/wife could really talk with about the baby. It's just that the boyfriend/husband would be always there for girlfriend/wife more than any of families and friends.

It would be weird if a girlfriend told her boyfriend that she was pregnanted, then abort her baby at the hostipal without letting boyfriend know. That's why I would rather to see boyfriend take the cooperative with the girlfriend, and the girlfriend take cooperative with boyfriend, ratherly than being "selfish" to each other, which was not really relationship.

Also fyi, the father always must pay the children support if he refuse to take care of the children after the dicrove or living separte. That applies to the mother too, if mother refuse to take care of the children, she has to pay for the children support too.

Quote:

But face it, most men aren't maternal enough to take care of children.

Oh really? Well if I don't have a father, I would had dropped the high school by now, I would never know how to get a job, I would never know how to do the investment in the properties, I would never know how to do the business, I would never know how to drive and fix the car in the basic, I would never know how to protect myself and my home, I would never know how to be aggrestive, I would never know how to fix the house if there was any problem, there are many things that I learned from father himself.

Quote:

Husband should have a say as they are married. Chances are if a woman is going to have an abortion, she already has her husband's support.

Exactly, decide together, as a relationship, family. "My body is my choice" is a selfish quote, IMO.

Quote:

Now answer my question: what about the rapist? Does the rapist have a right to say if she should have an abortion or not?

Well read my story at Mann's thread at the health section... It shows how wonderful my father did for my anut.

PuyoPiyo · 02-02-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretblend

Why would she want him to forgo his child support? She should expect him to pay child support!

The rapist won't even care if she is pregnant or not. Of course he has no right to any kind of opinion or say since he violated her.

Exactly!

KarissaMann05 · 02-02-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

"The mother was raped and had two twin girls, she kept one of girls because of her second child had the mother's facial feature. The other girl was sent to forest with a blindfold by the mother, because of the firstborn was looked like her father a lot. The mother never wanted her or loved her firstborn daughter, but she dearly loved and wanted her second daughter.

That bastard child was just abounded in a forest for a while until she took a blindfold off, she realized she was all alone.. She had to search all the way to find a place where she was lived in.. until the bastard child found a town and was adopted by loving family.

Now, she was happily married and have only child, and her descendant was growing and growing. The twin girl, who looked like her father, had about 610 people in her descendant, and they were very thankful for they are existed." - G.C.K. in the book

Now.. If that twin girl is at the present time, I am sure her mother definitely aborts her bastard child, due to rape action, and the twin child will lost about 610 people in her descendant.

But, so what, right? Because a child is not really vaule at all?

If so, then we are in our mothers' wombs and we are nothing but low fetuses, in my opinion.

I add one more thing - - it's not about rape issues, it's about stat of unborn children.

I am sure you know the comment I wrote in that quote, if it's true then..

1.3 millions unborn children had lost their lives, that's means unborn children will lost their future descendants no matter how many people in one descendant of an unborn child.

EXPLAIN:

1300's A - 610 people per descendent
1300's B - 1,020 people per descendant
1300's C - 845 people per descendant

If they are in the persent time...

2000's
610 per x 1.3 = 793 millions per
1,020 per x 1.3 = 1326 billions per
845 per x 1.3 = 1098.5 billions per

That's what it worry me the most..

It would be nice if USA cut junk foods off by prices $$, open meeting for all parents, and try to deal with heavily religious people, and etc etc. I am sure that would get better, too bad, it won't be easy.. =/

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02-01-2008, 09:39 PM	#64 (permalink)
Askjo Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 722	The difference between the abortion and the saving the life of a mother is how much???? Most women want the abortion for WHAT? Sex? Irresponsibility? Can't afford? Immature? Her parents will find out? Whatsoever? But a mother gave up her life for for her baby's sake. The reason for the abortion is that many Doctors make big money and smell green paper -- $$$$$. In the USA -- Abortion -- 99%??? Giving up the life and save a baby -- 1%??? Is the abortion an excuse?

02-01-2008, 10:52 PM	#75 (permalink)
DURAY Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 105	Feminists (who hate men in general) and Peter Singer of Princeton have been successful in having disabled fetus being aborted. How are we gonna grow as a deaf community if there are less deaf babies, less deaf kids and less deaf adults? the group Not Yet Dead really hated rich highly-educated liberal Democrats for not doing more to save PWDs....