Plastic shopping bags

Foxrac · 01-29-2008, 02:16 PM

Are you agree with ban on plastic shopping bags due environment concern? SF is first city to ban on plastic shopping bags, that's surprised.

I'm apologize about brought a old news but interesting to read it.

Quote:

S.F. FIRST CITY TO BAN PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS

Supermarkets and chain pharmacies will have to use recyclable or compostable sacks

Charlie Goodyear, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Paper or plastic? Not anymore in San Francisco.
The city's Board of Supervisors approved groundbreaking legislation Tuesday to outlaw plastic checkout bags at large supermarkets in about six months and large chain pharmacies in about a year.

The ordinance, sponsored by Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi, is the first such law in any city in the United States and has been drawing global scrutiny this week.
"I am astounded and surprised by the worldwide attention," Mirkarimi said. "Hopefully, other cities and other states will follow suit."

Fifty years ago, plastic bags -- starting first with the sandwich bag -- were seen in the United States as a more sanitary and environmentally friendly alternative to the deforesting paper bag. Now an estimated 180 million plastic bags are distributed to shoppers each year in San Francisco. Made of filmy plastic, they are hard to recycle and easily blow into trees and waterways, where they are blamed for killing marine life. They also occupy much-needed landfill space.

Two years ago, San Francisco officials considered imposing a 17-cent tax on petroleum-based plastic bags before reaching a deal with the California Grocers Association. The agreement called for large supermarkets to reduce by 10 million the number of bags given to shoppers in 2006. The grocers association said it cut back by 7.6 million, but city officials called that figure unreliable and unverifiable because of poor data supplied by markets.

The dispute led to a renewed interest in outlawing the standard plastic bag, which Mirkarimi said Tuesday was a "relic of the past." Under the legislation, which passed 10-1 in the first of two votes, large markets and pharmacies will have the option of using compostable bags made of corn starch or bags made of recyclable paper. San Francisco will join a number of countries, such as Ireland, that already have outlawed plastic bags or have levied a tax on them. Final passage of the legislation is expected at the board's next scheduled meeting, and the mayor is expected to sign it.

The grocers association has warned that the new law will lead to higher prices for San Francisco shoppers.

"We're disappointed that the Board of Supervisors is going down this path," said Kristin Power, the association's vice president for government relations. "It will frustrate recycling efforts and will increase both consumer and retailer costs. There's also a real concern about the availability and quality of compostable bags."
Power said most of the group's members operating in San Francisco are likely to switch to paper bags "simply because of the affordability and availability issues."
Mirkarimi's legislation is one in a string of environmentally sensitive measures -- such as outlawing Styrofoam food containers and encouraging clean-fuel construction vehicles at city job sites -- adopted by the city in recent months.

"It's really exciting," Jared Blumenfeld, director of the city's Department of the Environment, said after the vote on Tuesday. "We're thrilled. It's been a long time in the making."

Blumenfeld said it takes 430,000 gallons of oil to manufacture 100 million bags. Compostable bags can be recycled in the city's green garbage bins and will make it more convenient for residents to recycle food scraps, he said.

Recycling of paper bags also is far more active today than it was when the plastic bag was first introduced to U.S. consumers.

The lone dissenting voice in the board chamber on Tuesday was Supervisor Ed Jew, who noted that 95,000 small businesses in San Francisco will continue to use plastic bags. Jew, who in his third month in office has taken to critiquing his colleagues for being too quick to burden residents and businesses with new mandates, complained that Mirkarimi's legislation has taken too much of the board's time.

"We need to move on to address the larger issues in San Francisco," Jew said shortly before he voted against the ordinance.
Supervisor Michela Alioto-Pier, who introduced amendments this month that will subject pharmacy chains to the legislation, said many large businesses in San Francisco already participate in recycling programs.

"The target of this legislation is the bags themselves and improving the environment," she said.

Plastic bags by the numbers
180 million

Roughly the number of plastic shopping bags distributed in San Francisco each year.
2 to 3 cents

Amount each bag costs markets, compared with anywhere from 5 to 10 cents for a biodegradable bag.
4 trillion to 5 trillion

Number of nondegradable plastic bags used worldwide annually.
430,000 gallons

Amount of oil needed to produce 100 million nondegradable plastic bags.
Source: S.F. Department of the Environment; Worldwatch Institute

S.F. FIRST CITY TO BAN PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS / Supermarkets and chain pharmacies will have to use recyclable or compostable sacks

Feel free to discuss about it, I would love to see alot of change.

Liebling:-))) · 01-29-2008, 02:26 PM

I will be back for further post later because my son need computer...

Reba · 01-29-2008, 02:27 PM

When grocery stores first started using plastic bags, we were told that they were better for the environment because they saved trees from being cut down for making brown paper bags. So everyone switched from paper to plastic.

I wish they would make up their minds.

PowerON · 01-29-2008, 02:57 PM

as you know that thing plastic bag does harm the land and sea when it being throw away. It easy fell away when being dump, fly in air to nowhere and ruin fish's neck to choke.

Fact, I easy seen plastic bag anywhere on road.

PuyoPiyo · 01-29-2008, 03:17 PM

Well if they think it's better for the enviroments than the plastic bag, then that's fine with me. I just don't care about the plastic bag much, but are very glad that the paper bags are nearly gone.

Foxrac · 01-29-2008, 03:54 PM

I was remember about brown paper bags in late 80's and early 90's, when I was young child and noticed groceries are use brown paper bags then replaced into plastic bag, now, it's very rarely to see stores to use brown paper bags.

Now, I believe it would replace into tote shopping bag or alternative bags, plus plastic bags are popular for homeless and toss over street and glad that still better than brown paper, such to save the tree.

We need more tree to absorb the CO2 to prevent from global warming to make more worse in over years, plus I feel that most school would use computer for all students to replace the textbook and paperwork in near future but still existing in some Asian countries.

Mistyrose · 01-29-2008, 04:14 PM

Well, its good idea and im all for saving the trees! We waste
billions of plastic and paper anyways..anything to save the
trees....i will start using my canvas bags to tote my groceries
and supplies, you can buy them now at Walmart or any stores
like Dollar Stores, Family Dollars or any grocery stores.
Do you realize after Christmas, billions of Christmas trees are
being wasted?? they all go to the dump just get burned up!
I think we should just use artificial trees instead of cutting down
trees just for a few days for Christmas...geez...its just a waste
of perfectly good trees, you know? We dont buy real christmas
trees, we just use the Ceramic christmas tree now instead of wasting
perfectly good tree just for a few days, its a shame, really.

PowerON · 01-29-2008, 04:39 PM

Look at poor turtle! it eating toxic plastic!

Reba · 01-29-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defee

Well, its good idea and im all for saving the trees! We waste
billions of plastic and paper anyways..anything to save the
trees....i will start using my canvas bags to tote my groceries
and supplies, you can buy them now at Walmart or any stores
like Dollar Stores, Family Dollars or any grocery stores.
Do you realize after Christmas, billions of Christmas trees are
being wasted?? they all go to the dump just get burned up!
I think we should just use artificial trees instead of cutting down
trees just for a few days for Christmas...geez...its just a waste
of perfectly good trees, you know? We dont buy real christmas
trees, we just use the Ceramic christmas tree now instead of wasting
perfectly good tree just for a few days, its a shame, really.

In our area the old Christmas trees are picked up for free, and taken for recycling. They are put thru a mulching machine and changed into mulch for gardens. It's very popular here.

shel90 · 01-29-2008, 06:04 PM

I hate plastic and the idea of them being discarded somewhere in a landfill. All those chemicals going into the soil.

I also thing we shouldnt use new paper bags so we can preserve the trees.

What about recycled paper bags?

Reba · 01-29-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

...What about recycled paper bags?

Do you mean using the old paper bags, and then shredding and processing them into new paper bags? Or do you mean using the same old paper bags over and over again?

moonflower · 01-29-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

In our area the old Christmas trees are picked up for free, and taken for recycling. They are put thru a mulching machine and changed into mulch for gardens. It's very popular here.

same here in my city they do that too pick up for free

i wanted to see useful bags that can be washed and used again everytime we go to the stores.
i don't care of those bags but i hope they would find a way to recycled once used plastic bags

Reba · 01-29-2008, 06:27 PM

I use some of the plastic bags as liners for my waste baskets, or for organizing computer and electronics parts within a large bin. Most of the plastic bags we take back to the store and put them in the "return bags for recycling" container.

shel90 · 01-29-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Do you mean using the old paper bags, and then shredding and processing them into new paper bags? Or do you mean using the same old paper bags over and over again?

The first...

If it is possible to use the same ones again and again without wear/tear and containment, then great! I seriously doubt that is realistic.

Reba · 01-29-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

The first...

If it is possible to use the same ones again and again without wear/tear and containment, then great! I seriously doubt that is realistic.

I've been told that stores can't use bags again for sanitation reasons. I guess they could be processed into new bags.

When I was a kid we all used the brown paper bags to make covers for our school books. We could write the titles on the them, and then decorate them.

We also used the brown paper bags to make costumes. I was bowl of pudding for a Christmas pageant, wearing a brown bag with eye and arm holes cut out, and brown tights. The raisins were drawn on with crayons. They made good "Indian" costumes because we could cut "buckskin fringe" around the bottom with scissors, and decorate them with crayons or glued on construction paper.

We used them for lining kitchen garbage cans.

We could carry stuff in the brown bags without everyone seeing what was inside.

Now that I think about it, we almost never threw away a brown bag. We used them for lots of things.

Foxrac · 01-29-2008, 08:47 PM

Have anyone know about tote shopping bags? I believe it's replace the plastic bags or even find alternative bags.

Every stores have different role on shopping bags, some of them are using brown paper bags (usually in mall shopping), light plastic bag (such as Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy and more common), heavy duty plastic bags like at Apple store, tote bags at several stores and others.

I love bags from Apple store, it looks heavy duty with beautiful Apple logo.

jillio · 01-29-2008, 09:31 PM

Couldn't the problem between paper vs. plastic be solved if we all used reusable bags to carry our purchases? A couple of cotton tote bags will hold quite a bit, and you can use them again and again. When they start to fall apart, cotton is completely biodegradable. No trees cut down, not plastic that refuses to decompose. Problem solved.

jillio · 01-29-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I've been told that stores can't use bags again for sanitation reasons. I guess they could be processed into new bags.

When I was a kid we all used the brown paper bags to make covers for our school books. We could write the titles on the them, and then decorate them.

We also used the brown paper bags to make costumes. I was bowl of pudding for a Christmas pageant, wearing a brown bag with eye and arm holes cut out, and brown tights. The raisins were drawn on with crayons. They made good "Indian" costumes because we could cut "buckskin fringe" around the bottom with scissors, and decorate them with crayons or glued on construction paper.

We used them for lining kitchen garbage cans.

We could carry stuff in the brown bags without everyone seeing what was inside.

Now that I think about it, we almost never threw away a brown bag. We used them for lots of things.

I still save them. And I remember all of those uses, as well. They are also great insulation.

Reba · 01-29-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I still save them. And I remember all of those uses, as well. They are also great insulation.

Oh, and they make great "caves" for cats to hide in so they can leap out and attack human legs passing by.

jillio · 01-29-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Oh, and they make great "caves" for cats to hide in so they can leap out and attack human legs passing by.

That, too, LOL. I had a cat that did just that everytime we unpacked the groceries.

PuyoPiyo · 01-30-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Couldn't the problem between paper vs. plastic be solved if we all used reusable bags to carry our purchases? A couple of cotton tote bags will hold quite a bit, and you can use them again and again. When they start to fall apart, cotton is completely biodegradable. No trees cut down, not plastic that refuses to decompose. Problem solved.

Bingo!

Doesn't those look better than those ugly paper bags or plastic bags?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Oh, and they make great "caves" for cats to hide in so they can leap out and attack human legs passing by.

Haha, my cat does that all the times, even though she wasn't in a bag, but hiding in the hall bathroom, or even chasing to human's legs, I love my cat!

Liebling:-))) · 01-30-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

In our area the old Christmas trees are picked up for free, and taken for recycling. They are put thru a mulching machine and changed into mulch for gardens. It's very popular here.

Yes, and also use for fire-place as well.

Liebling:-))) · 01-30-2008, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba
Oh, and they make great "caves" for cats to hide in so they can leap out and attack human legs passing by

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That, too, LOL. I had a cat that did just that everytime we unpacked the groceries.

same with my cats as well.

Kalista · 01-30-2008, 07:27 AM

I prefer plastic bag, it is very useful than paperbag. I can put wet clothes in plastic after swimming. It would soak rest of other clothes in the bag.

Pick up dog poops and clean cat litter in plastic bag to tie it up and trash.

Bring my lunch and dinner in the plastic bags.

Paperbag rip easy and soak easily from rain. I prefer, plastic bag which is more useful.

Liebling:-))) · 01-30-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Do you mean using the old paper bags, and then shredding and processing them into new paper bags? Or do you mean using the same old paper bags over and over again?

Yes until it worn out itself.

Liebling:-))) · 01-30-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalista

I prefer plastic bag, it is very useful than paperbag. I can put wet clothes in plastic after swimming. It would soak rest of other clothes in the bag.

Pick up dog poops and clean cat litter in plastic bag to tie it up and trash.

Bring my lunch and dinner in the plastic bags.

Paperbag rip easy and soak easily from rain. I prefer, plastic bag which is more useful.

Yes, I only use plastic bag for rubbish bin (trash) and also afte

01-29-2008, 02:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) My 3 darling princesses Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 27,054	I will be back for further post later because my son need computer... __________________

01-29-2008, 02:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
PowerON Please don't click me! D: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Would like to live at Fort Davis, TX Posts: 4,789 Blog Entries: 1	as you know that thing plastic bag does harm the land and sea when it being throw away. It easy fell away when being dump, fly in air to nowhere and ruin fish's neck to choke. Fact, I easy seen plastic bag anywhere on road. __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

01-29-2008, 03:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo My Property!! >:( Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fourth Plain Village WA Posts: 5,182	Well if they think it's better for the enviroments than the plastic bag, then that's fine with me. I just don't care about the plastic bag much, but are very glad that the paper bags are nearly gone. __________________ Note: Not credit by myself.

01-29-2008, 03:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
Foxrac o_O Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 14,349	I was remember about brown paper bags in late 80's and early 90's, when I was young child and noticed groceries are use brown paper bags then replaced into plastic bag, now, it's very rarely to see stores to use brown paper bags. Now, I believe it would replace into tote shopping bag or alternative bags, plus plastic bags are popular for homeless and toss over street and glad that still better than brown paper, such to save the tree. We need more tree to absorb the CO2 to prevent from global warming to make more worse in over years, plus I feel that most school would use computer for all students to replace the textbook and paperwork in near future but still existing in some Asian countries. __________________ God bless America

01-29-2008, 04:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mistyrose Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NewYork/sometimes Okla Posts: 3,523	Well, its good idea and im all for saving the trees! We waste billions of plastic and paper anyways..anything to save the trees....i will start using my canvas bags to tote my groceries and supplies, you can buy them now at Walmart or any stores like Dollar Stores, Family Dollars or any grocery stores. Do you realize after Christmas, billions of Christmas trees are being wasted?? they all go to the dump just get burned up! I think we should just use artificial trees instead of cutting down trees just for a few days for Christmas...geez...its just a waste of perfectly good trees, you know? We dont buy real christmas trees, we just use the Ceramic christmas tree now instead of wasting perfectly good tree just for a few days, its a shame, really. __________________ Im not deaf, im just ignoring you!

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01-29-2008, 02:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17,287	When grocery stores first started using plastic bags, we were told that they were better for the environment because they saved trees from being cut down for making brown paper bags. So everyone switched from paper to plastic. I wish they would make up their minds.

01-29-2008, 04:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
PowerON Please don't click me! D: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Would like to live at Fort Davis, TX Posts: 4,789 Blog Entries: 1	Look at poor turtle! it eating toxic plastic! __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

01-29-2008, 06:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
shel90 Sun Whorshipper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland Posts: 16,154 Blog Entries: 1	I hate plastic and the idea of them being discarded somewhere in a landfill. All those chemicals going into the soil. I also thing we shouldnt use new paper bags so we can preserve the trees. What about recycled paper bags? __________________ ~Shel~ "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

01-29-2008, 06:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17,287	I use some of the plastic bags as liners for my waste baskets, or for organizing computer and electronics parts within a large bin. Most of the plastic bags we take back to the store and put them in the "return bags for recycling" container.

01-29-2008, 08:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
Foxrac o_O Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 14,349	Have anyone know about tote shopping bags? I believe it's replace the plastic bags or even find alternative bags. Every stores have different role on shopping bags, some of them are using brown paper bags (usually in mall shopping), light plastic bag (such as Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy and more common), heavy duty plastic bags like at Apple store, tote bags at several stores and others. I love bags from Apple store, it looks heavy duty with beautiful Apple logo. __________________ God bless America

01-29-2008, 09:31 PM	#17 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,197	Couldn't the problem between paper vs. plastic be solved if we all used reusable bags to carry our purchases? A couple of cotton tote bags will hold quite a bit, and you can use them again and again. When they start to fall apart, cotton is completely biodegradable. No trees cut down, not plastic that refuses to decompose. Problem solved.

01-30-2008, 07:27 AM	#24 (permalink)
Kalista Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 7,475	I prefer plastic bag, it is very useful than paperbag. I can put wet clothes in plastic after swimming. It would soak rest of other clothes in the bag. Pick up dog poops and clean cat litter in plastic bag to tie it up and trash. Bring my lunch and dinner in the plastic bags. Paperbag rip easy and soak easily from rain. I prefer, plastic bag which is more useful. __________________