Hillary or Obama? - Page 3

Liebling:-))) · 01-28-2008, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

In socialist countries, sometime you have to wait to get the medical care. Why do you think a lot of Canadians come to the United States for their own health care????

Not the best but it's a lot better than other countries.

I NEVER have any experience to have a long waiting list for surgery...

I get treatment straight way when I need it.

I prefer to have taxes and social insurances to pay off to protect myself and my family because I want the safety than sorry... Without insurance, I would face a huge bill from for expensive surgeries, etc.

Americans work to pay tax for medicare and medicard to help poor people and then plus get insurance for themselves is an expensive than Hillary´s plan.

Hillary plan is cheaper than you work to pay tax and then plus insurance for yourself.

What would you do if you received huge surgery bill when you don't have health insurance or don't have everything cover up in your insurance?

Would you deny those article with original photo of poor boy or what?
BBC NEWS | Americas | Boy's death highlights US health debate

OPB News · Lack Of Health Insurance Leads Many To Bankruptcy

You made misleading about Canadian health system...
What Countries Have Universal Health Care? - Gadling

http://www.alldeaf.com/870382-post282.html

Canadians ADers posts...
http://www.alldeaf.com/war-political...ke-canada.html

Liebling:-))) · 01-28-2008, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

I disagree because at least in this country, you don't have to sit around and wait for permission to have a life saving surgery or not....

Again, misleading information.

I really have no idea where you get those information from?

PuyoPiyo · 01-28-2008, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Well, it wasn't enough right now because medicaid is so limited and insurance for family is rediciously expensive in certain of jobs, that cause middle income to cannot afford it, because cost of living is much higher than last decade ago, such as gas price, groceries or other stuff, recently there's credit issue too.

I believe that for rising the taxes or planning the new service would require vote from congress, if vote was turn down then Hillary has no power to increase the taxes. Right now, during Bush's term, taxes on payroll seems so higher to me but I'm STRONGLY against flat tax, middle and high income are should to pay more taxes. I think that tax would be most levied on rich people.

Yeah I can see that... Also I have to agree with you, I am against the flat tax, but I am also against high taxes.. I would prefer to support reasonable tax, but the medical taxes seems are not reasonable for me because I feel that was a personal's rights, that's all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I see no problem for that because Hillary Clinton support Healthy, Welfare & Poverty.

In European countries including Germany, we paid high taxes because we received the rights as the equal as everyone, no matter what.

like treat by doctors, dentals, treatments, etc. I would against if I pay high taxes without treatments etc. but spend on wars and low income people only, not for yourself...

But I just see the medical insurance was a personal decision, not the governments... Some people don't want the insurance for their health, it was their choice.. I have to understand about the cars insurance, but the health insurance seems different to me..

Also about the low income people, well, how can a person, who have no arms, get a job and paying the health insurance all by her/himself?

And of course, I have to agree with you totally about paying the taxes for the war which doesn't treat us well. I only support the tax if other countries was trying to attack us, but nobody are going to attack us anymore so why paying taxes for?...

Liebling:-))) · 01-28-2008, 07:28 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

But I just see the medical insurance was a personal decision, not the governments... Some people don't want the insurance for their health, it was their choice..

Not all but some decided for not want to insure for their health but many Americans cannot afford to insure for their health.

Quote:

I have to understand about the cars insurance, but the health insurance seems different to me..

Do I understand your post correct that the car insurance is an obligation, not health insurance?

Quote:

Also about the low income people, well, how can a person, who have no arms, get a job and paying the health insurance all by her/himself?

Many people with no legs or arms cope their life well and have job.

They have their own Bank. They can sign/write with their mouth or feet.

Anyway, not just low income people but million americans cannot afford to insure health for their family because it's too expensive. Check my thread.
http://www.alldeaf.com/current-event...alth-care.html

I don't want to work to pay taxes to help low income people and plus extra insurance for myself. I would support if I work to pay taxes to help low income people including myself.

Quote:

And of course, I have to agree with you totally about paying the taxes for the war which doesn't treat us well. I only support the tax if other countries was trying to attack us, but nobody are going to attack us anymore so why paying taxes for?...

Exactly!

Reba · 01-28-2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

...Americans work to pay tax for medicare and medicard to help poor people and then plus get insurance for themselves is an expensive than Hillary´s plan.

Hillary plan is cheaper than you work to pay tax and then plus insurance for yourself.

Who do you think would pay for the medical insurance for the low income people? The American taxpayers. Hillary's plan would be more expensive for middle income people like me and Hubby. It will cost more for us, not less.

Reba · 01-28-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

...Do I understand your post correct that the car insurance is an obligation, not health insurance?

That's right. Car insurance is required so that the injured parties and their property are protected. The person who causes the accident is responsible for the damages of the innocent injured persons and their property.

Liebling:-))) · 01-28-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Who do you think would pay for the medical insurance for the low income people? The American taxpayers. Hillary's plan would be more expensive for middle income people like me and Hubby. It will cost more for us, not less.

I mean any Americans who cannot afford to insure the health insurance extra for the family or themselves when they work to pay taxes for Medicard/Medicare for low income family. It would be cheaper for them if they are under Hillary's plan if they WANT to insure health insurance. One ADers in my thread stated that she like to insure health for her family but she feel $400 per month for family insurance coverage is too much whom she work to pay taxes. That's why I thought she would not need to insure extra when she work to pay taxes to Medicare/Medicard if she join Hillary's plan.

Liebling:-))) · 01-28-2008, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That's right. Car insurance is required so that the injured parties and their property are protected. The person who causes the accident is responsible for the damages of the innocent injured persons and their property.

Here in European countries both insurances for car and health are obligation.

Foxrac · 01-28-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Right, I'm registered as an independent voter.

I prefer not to be labeled but I would say I'm generally politically and socially conservative.

How about you?

Yup, that what I thought.

I think that you know about me, I'm full liberal and registered democrat voter.

PuyoPiyo · 01-28-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Not all but some decided for not want to insure for their health but many Americans cannot afford to insure for their health.

True...

Quote:

Do I understand your post correct that the car insurance is an obligation, not health insurance?

Yupp that's right. It's because the car insurance is protecting people from causing any of problem with other strangers that they cannot afford to pay, while the health insurance was only for taking care of the person who owns the insurance.

Quote:

Many people with no legs or arms cope their life well and have job.

They have their own Bank. They can sign/write with their mouth or feet.

Anyway, not just low income people but million americans cannot afford to insure health for their family because it's too expensive. Check my thread.
http://www.alldeaf.com/current-event...alth-care.html

I don't want to work to pay taxes to help low income people and plus extra insurance for myself. I would support if I work to pay taxes to help low income people including myself.

Speechless because that's your opinion, I respect that

Quote:

Exactly!

*nods*!

Byrdie714 · 01-28-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I don't want Hillary, Obama, or McCain.

I voted in the SC primary last Saturday, and my choice didn't win, so I'll probably be stuck with McCain. He's a good man but he's not a conservative. Since 1980, no Republican nominee was chosen at the national convention without winning SC.

How can you vote in the primaries if you are an independent voter? You said that you voted in the SC primary and then say you are an independent voter?

Quote:

Right, I'm registered as an independent voter.

I prefer not to be labeled but I would say I'm generally politically and socially conservative.

How about you?

Can independents vote in the primaries as I know in this state, if you are an independent, you can't vote in the primaries.

From what I gather, you are a registered Republican........

Please clairfy.

Byrdie714 · 01-28-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I don't know. I don't think Hillary gives a hoot about the party, except for how it can serve her needs.

Just my opinion.

I think the relationship works both ways.

jillio · 01-28-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

I disagree because at least in this country, you don't have to sit around and wait for permission to have a life saving surgery or not....

Ever heard of insurance companies? The majority of them require pre-approval for surgeries. And, in that situation, you have a bunch of pencil pushers dictating the neccessity of medical treatment and second guessing the doctors.

Reba · 01-28-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I mean any Americans who cannot afford to insure the health insurance extra for the family or themselves when they work to pay taxes for Medicard/Medicare for low income family. It would be cheaper for them if they are under Hillary's plan if they WANT to insure health insurance. One ADers in my thread stated that she like to insure health for her family but she feel $400 per month for family insurance coverage is too much whom she work to pay taxes. That's why I thought she would not need to insure extra when she work to pay taxes to Medicare/Medicard if she join Hillary's plan.

It wouldn't be cheaper for my family. It will be more expensive because our taxes will increase.

Reba · 01-28-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

I think the relationship works both ways.

Reba · 01-28-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

How can you vote in the primaries if you are an independent voter? You said that you voted in the SC primary and then say you are an independent voter?

Depends on the state.

In South Carolina, anyone (Republicans, Democrats, independents, etc.) can vote in either primary (Republican or Democrat). The only rule is that they can't vote in both. Yes, even a Republican can vote in a Democrat primary (and vice versa).

That's not the case in every state but that's the way it is here. It makes for interesting elections in SC.

Byrdie714 · 01-28-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Ever heard of insurance companies? The majority of them require pre-approval for surgeries. And, in that situation, you have a bunch of pencil pushers dictating the neccessity of medical treatment and second guessing the doctors.

Re-read the post....

Quote:

I disagree because at least in this country, you don't have to sit around and wait for permission to have a life saving surgery or not....

I can understand the insurance companies deciding if one should have the bunion surgery or not. But in most cases of life saving i.e. heart attacks, etc.

Liebling writes:

Quote:

Again, misleading information.

I really have no idea where you get those information from?

Thank you for providing the link as it was stated in the link that Canadians had to wait, plus there was statistics of people waiting for their surgeries..

Quote:

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/160/10/1469.pdf

Secondly...do you really believe everything that Michael Moore says in his documentary? Remember that documentaries are a matter of opinion. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, just neither. And Michael Moore is a 'flamer' just like you , me and everyone else on these boards.

Liebling writes:

Quote:

I mean any Americans who cannot afford to insure the health insurance extra for the family or themselves when they work to pay taxes for Medicard/Medicare for low income family. It would be cheaper for them if they are under Hillary's plan if they WANT to insure health insurance. One ADers in my thread stated that she like to insure health for her family but she feel $400 per month for family insurance coverage is too much whom she work to pay taxes. That's why I thought she would not need to insure extra when she work to pay taxes to Medicare/Medicard if she join Hillary's plan.

I know I am going to get h*** for saying this but if the individual thinks its too much to have their families health covered for that amount of money is too much then that particular individual doesn't have their family's best interest at heart.

Insurance costs money. Period. If you want the best for your family, you will shell out money for the best. If not, then don't complain. You get what you pay.

Reba writes:

Quote:

Who do you think would pay for the medical insurance for the low income people? The American taxpayers. Hillary's plan would be more expensive for middle income people like me and Hubby. It will cost more for us, not less.

And if we cover the low income people and when it comes time for the middle class to say, " Cover me please," the Feds will say..."Sorry, you make too much money!".

Good point Reba, it will be expensive for us middle class people.

Anyway, getting back to Hillary vs. Obama......

Obama will probably get the South due to the race card whereas Hillary will get NY, MA, CT, and CA.

They both may not want to be side by side if one is the President and Vice-President, but if their party wants them too, they will probably give into the Democrat party....

Byrdie714 · 01-28-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Depends on the state.

In South Carolina, anyone (Republicans, Democrats, independents, etc.) can vote in either primary (Republican or Democrat). The only rule is that they can't vote in both. Yes, even a Republican can vote in a Democrat primary (and vice versa).

That's not the case in every state but that's the way it is here. It makes for interesting elections in SC.

WOW!

That's interesting! Thanks for the info!

jillio · 01-28-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Re-read the post....

I can understand the insurance companies deciding if one should have the bunion surgery or not. But in most cases of life saving i.e. heart attacks, etc.

Liebling writes:

Thank you for providing the link as it was stated in the link that Canadians had to wait, plus there was statistics of people waiting for their surgeries..

Secondly...do you really believe everything that Michael Moore says in his documentary? Remember that documentaries are a matter of opinion. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, just neither. And Michael Moore is a 'flamer' just like you , me and everyone else on these boards.

Liebling writes:

I know I am going to get h*** for saying this but if the individual thinks its too much to have their families health covered for that amount of money is too much then that particular individual doesn't have their family's best interest at heart.

Insurance costs money. Period. If you want the best for your family, you will shell out money for the best. If not, then don't complain. You get what you pay.

Reba writes:

And if we cover the low income people and when it comes time for the middle class to say, " Cover me please," the Feds will say..."Sorry, you make too much money!".

Good point Reba, it will be expensive for us middle class people.

Anyway, getting back to Hillary vs. Obama......

Obama will probably get the South due to the race card whereas Hillary will get NY, MA, CT, and CA.

They both may not want to be side by side if one is the President and Vice-President, but if their party wants them too, they will probably give into the Democrat party....

I did read your post, and elective type surgeries excluded, many insurance companies require pre-approval for all surgeries. In addition, some require a second opinion by a doctor directly associated with the insurance company. Further, people are having to wait innordinate amounts of time to gain approval to see a specialist due to insurance company regulations. Not to mention limiting freedom of choice for which practitioner you use. They can deny payment for any service at any time. Personally, I do not agree with insurance company representatives without any form of medical training deciding the efficacy of medical treatment. I prefer my treatment decisions to be between myself and a medical professional. If I want someone with a high school diploma making medical decisions for me, I'll ask any stranger on the street corner, thank you.

Reba · 01-29-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I did read your post, and elective type surgeries excluded, many insurance companies require pre-approval for all surgeries. In addition, some require a second opinion by a doctor directly associated with the insurance company. Further, people are having to wait innordinate amounts of time to gain approval to see a specialist due to insurance company regulations. Not to mention limiting freedom of choice for which practitioner you use. They can deny payment for any service at any time. Personally, I do not agree with insurance company representatives without any form of medical training deciding the efficacy of medical treatment. I prefer my treatment decisions to be between myself and a medical professional. If I want someone with a high school diploma making medical decisions for me, I'll ask any stranger on the street corner, thank you.

Reba did NOT write:

And if we cover the low income people and when it comes time for the middle class to say, " Cover me please," the Feds will say..."Sorry, you make too much money!".

Those were Byrdie's words below my quote.

Reba · 01-29-2008, 01:27 AM

I was watching the President's State of the Union speech tonight. Sometimes the camera would pan to Hillary, Obama, and Teddy. Hillary was very nicely dressed and made up but she totally spoiled it by her facial expression. Every time the camera caught her, she looked constipated. What a crabapple.

Obama and Teddy were sitting together like two sweethearts. Blah! Just 18 months ago Teddy couldn't even get Obama's name right (He called him Osama Bin Laden during a speech.)

I heard Teddy and his druggie son Patrick make their endorsement speeches for Obama today. Teddy sounded drunk, and Patrick sounded high. I suspect there's more behind their endorsement of Obama than what meets the eye. Maybe a cushy position for Patrick on Obama's presidential staff?

Or are they so sick of the Clintons that they'll do anything to tick them off?

Liebling:-))) · 01-29-2008, 08:08 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Thank you for providing the link as it was stated in the link that Canadians had to wait, plus there was statistics of people waiting for their surgeries..

Did you check the date of link before you provided here? I looked your link. It says 1999.
Re-read your link.
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/160/10/1469.pdf

My link with many Canadian's positive comments, I provided you in previous post dated July 2007.

Again, please re-read Canadian's positive comments.
What Countries Have Universal Health Care? - Gadling

You need to listen Canadians's to real life experience situation than listen media or whatever.

Quote:

Secondly...do you really believe everything that Michael Moore says in his documentary? Remember that documentaries are a matter of opinion. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, just neither. And Michael Moore is a 'flamer' just like you , me and everyone else on these boards.

Many Canadia's positive comments are not Michael Moore. I really has no idea where you get it from?

Quote:

I know I am going to get h*** for saying this but if the individual thinks its too much to have their families health covered for that amount of money is too much then that particular individual doesn't have their family's best interest at heart.

Insurance costs money. Period. If you want the best for your family, you will shell out money for the best. If not, then don't complain. You get what you pay.

wow, I am total speechless over your comment here. I feel really bad for Americans who want to have healthy insurance for their family's safety but they cannot afford.

Today
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01-29-2008, 01:27 AM	#81 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17,287	I was watching the President's State of the Union speech tonight. Sometimes the camera would pan to Hillary, Obama, and Teddy. Hillary was very nicely dressed and made up but she totally spoiled it by her facial expression. Every time the camera caught her, she looked constipated. What a crabapple. Obama and Teddy were sitting together like two sweethearts. Blah! Just 18 months ago Teddy couldn't even get Obama's name right (He called him Osama Bin Laden during a speech.) I heard Teddy and his druggie son Patrick make their endorsement speeches for Obama today. Teddy sounded drunk, and Patrick sounded high. I suspect there's more behind their endorsement of Obama than what meets the eye. Maybe a cushy position for Patrick on Obama's presidential staff? Or are they so sick of the Clintons that they'll do anything to tick them off?