How to solve courtroom injustice? - Page 2

jillio · 12-29-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

D.O.J. has stated that there is 2 million people in the prison system.

210 out of 2 million.....

Actually, that is only the number of releases. That is not repesentative of cases under investigation that will result in exoneration of innocent people as the investigations continue, nor the number who have been released that are not connected with the Innocence Project. Nor does it include those who are serving longer sentences due to inequities in the application of justice. You are basing your conclusions on faulty premises. So your figures are not representative of the actual reality of the circumstances.

jillio · 12-29-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretblend

That is quite a small amount of poeple that are unfairly in jail. While I feel bad for those 210,. That is a very good indication that our justic systems works very well. It could have been several thousands in jail unfairly and that would still be considered low.

As I said, as long humans are involved. Mistakes will be made. All we can do is do our best to be correct as much as we can.

Thanks Byrdie for getting that information.

This does not account for the discrepancies in sentencing along racial and SES variables, either. When we discuss fairness of the jsutice system, we must not only look at innocent people being convicted, but also at guilty persons who are set free due to their ability to purchase "justice", as well as those who are doing longer sentences as a direct result of their SES and racial ID.

Bear · 12-29-2007, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

This does not account for the discrepancies in sentencing along racial and SES variables, either. When we discuss fairness of the jsutice system, we must not only look at innocent people being convicted, but also at guilty persons who are set free due to their ability to purchase "justice", as well as those who are doing longer sentences as a direct result of their SES and racial ID.

Jillio I agree with this statement! Sadly there are people that are the lucky ones and can buy their way out of trouble. But what about those that cant? Where is the fairness in our justice system, when people go to jail everyday for ignoring court orders or for DUI'S and our own celebreties *sp?* get away with practically anything they wish to?

Why is everyone not held to the same standards?

Byrdie714 · 12-29-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

This does not account for the discrepancies in sentencing along racial and SES variables, either. When we discuss fairness of the jsutice system, we must not only look at innocent people being convicted, but also at guilty persons who are set free due to their ability to purchase "justice", as well as those who are doing longer sentences as a direct result of their SES and racial ID.

Oh jeez!

How can a "guilty" person be set free when the judge and the jury find the "guilty" person, "not guilty?" It's obvious that the DA did not do the job correctly in prosecuting the said defendent.

It's time for you to come out of the classroom and into the court room to see what is going on. Once you understand what happens on a daily basis in the court room and behind the scenes, you will get a better understanding of the court system instead of making assumptions on a few sensationalize cases.

I would be happy to show you around....

Byrdie714 · 12-29-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear

Jillio I agree with this statement! Sadly there are people that are the lucky ones and can buy their way out of trouble. But what about those that cant? Where is the fairness in our justice system, when people go to jail everyday for ignoring court orders or for DUI'S and our own celebreties *sp?* get away with practically anything they wish to?

Why is everyone not held to the same standards?

The can always mortage their house if they have one....

Sell their car....

Cut some luxuries out of their budget....

Bail....

Ask for a loan from friends and family.....

If they got credit cards, use it...

List is endless....

Bear · 12-29-2007, 10:51 AM

Brydie,

While you may list all that, the point of the matter is, that the justice system does not put everyone on an even keel.

You have people like OJ that pretty much bought his way out of a murder rap in criminal court. He may not have fared so well in civil court, but the truth of the matter is that OJ is never gonna pay a dime to the victims families.

Why should anyone be allowed to buy their way out of trouble? If lawyers had to charge the same fees for all the cases, no matter what they were, then and only then will the justice system, MAYBE on the same fairness level.

You say mortgage, borrow and all that. It still does not put the average person on the same level as someone who can afford anything their little heart desires.

In the justice system, it should not be about money at all. It should be about the people.

jillio · 12-29-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Oh jeez!

How can a "guilty" person be set free when the judge and the jury find the "guilty" person, "not guilty?" It's obvious that the DA did not do the job correctly in prosecuting the said defendent.

It's time for you to come out of the classroom and into the court room to see what is going on. Once you understand what happens on a daily basis in the court room and behind the scenes, you will get a better understanding of the court system instead of making assumptions on a few sensationalize cases.

I would be happy to show you around....

You are thinking too concretely. Guilty people go free on a daily basis due to their ability to buy their way out of a sentence through the purchase of legal services.

In exactly what capacity do you serve the legal system? I understand in a very real way exactly what happens in the legal system on a daily basis. Obviously, you do not. And you have yet to explain discrepancies in sentencing based on SES and race. It happens, it is happening on a daily basis, and the DOJ statistics prove it.

jillio · 12-29-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

The can always mortage their house if they have one....

People in the lower SES generally don't own a home. They rent. They cannot afford to save up a down payment.

Sell their car....

And they would not get enough from a 15 year old car to pay for legal consultation, much less a defense.
Cut some luxuries out of their budget....
What would you suggest? Food, clothing, or shelter? That is generally what people in the lower SES spend their money on.

Bail....

Ask for a loan from friends and family.....

And family and friends are in the same financial situation that the accused is. How many poor people do you know that have a wealthy friend willing to put up thousands and thousands of dollars for a criminal defense for a friend? How would the friend ever manage to pay them back, when chances are, they will have lost the minimum wage job they had from being arrested.

If they got credit cards, use it...

Since when do credit card companies extend this kind of credit to people living below the national poverty line?
List is endless....

You are living in a fantasy world. Come out of that ivory tower of yours, and get a look at real life.

jillio · 12-29-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear

Brydie,

While you may list all that, the point of the matter is, that the justice system does not put everyone on an even keel.

You have people like OJ that pretty much bought his way out of a murder rap in criminal court. He may not have fared so well in civil court, but the truth of the matter is that OJ is never gonna pay a dime to the victims families.

Why should anyone be allowed to buy their way out of trouble? If lawyers had to charge the same fees for all the cases, no matter what they were, then and only then will the justice system, MAYBE on the same fairness level.

You say mortgage, borrow and all that. It still does not put the average person on the same level as someone who can afford anything their little heart desires.

In the justice system, it should not be about money at all. It should be about the people.

Reba · 12-29-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

...discrepancies in sentencing based on SES and race. It happens, it is happening on a daily basis, and the DOJ statistics prove it.

What is "SES"?

Byrdie714 · 12-29-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You are living in a fantasy world. Come out of that ivory tower of yours, and get a look at real life.

They can also do a payment plan with an attorney. Many attorneys are willing to work with you.

Byrdie714 · 12-29-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You are thinking too concretely. Guilty people go free on a daily basis due to their ability to buy their way out of a sentence through the purchase of legal services.

In exactly what capacity do you serve the legal system? I understand in a very real way exactly what happens in the legal system on a daily basis. Obviously, you do not. And you have yet to explain discrepancies in sentencing based on SES and race. It happens, it is happening on a daily basis, and the DOJ statistics prove it.

Trial lawyer and a business owner.

jillio · 12-29-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

They can also do a payment plan with an attorney. Many attorneys are willing to work with you.

Oh, yeah.....lawyers regualarly grant credit to people working in minimum wage jobs that can't afford to make payments. Get a grip.

And I've yet to meet one that doesn't require an up front consultation fee prior to even agreeing to represent a client. Where do you suggest someone working a minimum wage job and trying to support themselves and a family come up with a $250.00 consult fee just to find out if the attorney will take your case? The fact of the matter is, you don't got the money, you don't got legal representation unless it is through a public defender. And we all know the effectiveness of public defenders. That is simply an effort to comply with the right to legal counsel....it is a joke.

Cheri · 12-29-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

The can always mortage their house if they have one....

Sell their car....

Cut some luxuries out of their budget....

Bail....

Ask for a loan from friends and family.....

If they got credit cards, use it...

List is endless....

It's all about money isn't it? If you don't have the money, You get longer jail time. All People need to take responsibility for their actions include celebrities.

What about Mischa Barton? she’s a pill-popping, joint smoking, drunk who can’t drive. Mischa posted 10K bailed and was escorted home by her proud parents. Lindsay Lohan spend 24 hours in prison just because she promise she will never use drugs again, Yea right!!

jillio · 12-29-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Trial lawyer and a business owner.

I doubt that seriously. Where did you recieve your JD? Your answers are reflective of someone extremely young, and without much life experience.

Reba · 12-29-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

What is "SES"?

socio-economic-status?

jillio · 12-29-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

socio-economic-status?

Yes, sorry I missed the question.

Reba · 12-29-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yes, sorry I missed the question.

That's OK. I guessed the answer to my own question.

jillio · 12-29-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That's OK. I guessed the answer to my own question.

And a very accurate guess it was!

Angel · 12-30-2007, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Trial lawyer and a business owner.

Why am I having such a hard time believing that you're actually a trial lawyer yet I don't see you offer any advice on how to deal with Bear's son case?

Bear · 12-30-2007, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Why am I having such a hard time believing that you're actually a trial lawyer yet I don't see you offer any advice on how to deal with Bear's son case?

lol

Angel!

Angel · 12-30-2007, 06:53 AM

Byrdie714, you should know that police tends to manipulate some people, often younger kids into making false confessions and in Bear's son case, he wasn't in any kind of state of mind to be making a legitimate confession. He was 12 year old at that time and his own mother wasn't even in the same room with him nor was at the police station because no one called her, the more the police push him, the more he's just going to tell them what he thinks will make it stop, regardless of what the truth is, just like torture even though he didnt do it , there was no evidence, DNA testing or any rape kit, that's why kids are being false imprisonment because of this!!!

Bear · 12-30-2007, 07:01 AM

even better

Angel! You said it all, I disagree with them being allowed to even talk to our children in a criminal case without the parents being notified first.

I believe when the cops were called, they should have immediately brought all parties to the police station, then notified me. They should never have been with my son at the other woman's house talking to him there without my knowledge.

Now I know this may be legal. But it certainly makes no sense nor is it smart.

Angel is totally right about kids not being able to distinguish that they can try to trap you by making false promises. They are also usually not able to know that they can call a lawyer. Usually kids WILL say or do anything to just make it stop.

Angel · 12-30-2007, 07:25 AM

Exactly Bear!!! and perhaps it time for the justice system, laywer and judge get their lazy asses up and protect these innocent children!!!

Bear · 12-30-2007, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Exactly Bear!!! and perhaps it time for the justice system, laywer and judge get their lazy asses up and protect these innocent children!!!

LOL Angel that wont happen because for one money, the state funds the juveniles within the system. It is a big money making operation. Which a lot of people doesnt see or know about. And alot of other people wanna deny happening.

Number two elections. If they are seen as being too soft on juvenile crime, then they face not getting re elected.

What really needs to happen is the forcing of better defenses no matter how much money you have. I believe all lawyers should HAVE to charge the same rate no matter how rich their client is.If this happened, maybe the lawyers would be more apt to give a fair defense for their clients.

I also believe we need better juvenile written laws. This may help for the juvenile justice system.

However, the juvenile justice system isnt the only system with its flaws. Many innocent adults also end up in jail.

We need a better system to prevent these innocents from ending up in jail. We need a way to stop people from using the system as a revenge tool. We also need a way to better investigate.

***~SG~*** · 12-30-2007, 07:44 AM

Weed out corrupted judges, lawyers and cops as not to have anyone in court as corrupted staff working in there.

12-29-2007, 10:51 AM	#36 (permalink)
Bear Out Of Hibernation Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,026	Brydie, While you may list all that, the point of the matter is, that the justice system does not put everyone on an even keel. You have people like OJ that pretty much bought his way out of a murder rap in criminal court. He may not have fared so well in civil court, but the truth of the matter is that OJ is never gonna pay a dime to the victims families. Why should anyone be allowed to buy their way out of trouble? If lawyers had to charge the same fees for all the cases, no matter what they were, then and only then will the justice system, MAYBE on the same fairness level. You say mortgage, borrow and all that. It still does not put the average person on the same level as someone who can afford anything their little heart desires. In the justice system, it should not be about money at all. It should be about the people. __________________ http://bears-city.myminicity.com/

12-30-2007, 07:01 AM	#53 (permalink)
Bear Out Of Hibernation Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,026	even better Angel! You said it all, I disagree with them being allowed to even talk to our children in a criminal case without the parents being notified first. I believe when the cops were called, they should have immediately brought all parties to the police station, then notified me. They should never have been with my son at the other woman's house talking to him there without my knowledge. Now I know this may be legal. But it certainly makes no sense nor is it smart. Angel is totally right about kids not being able to distinguish that they can try to trap you by making false promises. They are also usually not able to know that they can call a lawyer. Usually kids WILL say or do anything to just make it stop. __________________ http://bears-city.myminicity.com/

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12-30-2007, 06:53 AM	#52 (permalink)
Angel ♥"Concrete Angel"♥ Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 18,899	Byrdie714, you should know that police tends to manipulate some people, often younger kids into making false confessions and in Bear's son case, he wasn't in any kind of state of mind to be making a legitimate confession. He was 12 year old at that time and his own mother wasn't even in the same room with him nor was at the police station because no one called her, the more the police push him, the more he's just going to tell them what he thinks will make it stop, regardless of what the truth is, just like torture even though he didnt do it , there was no evidence, DNA testing or any rape kit, that's why kids are being false imprisonment because of this!!!

12-30-2007, 07:25 AM	#54 (permalink)
Angel ♥"Concrete Angel"♥ Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 18,899	Exactly Bear!!! and perhaps it time for the justice system, laywer and judge get their lazy asses up and protect these innocent children!!!

12-30-2007, 07:44 AM	#56 (permalink)
*~SG~* Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 3,622	Weed out corrupted judges, lawyers and cops as not to have anyone in court as corrupted staff working in there.

12-30-2007, 07:52 AM	#57 (permalink)
Bear Out Of Hibernation