Debate Sparked by Blog

Sheila · 07-05-2007, 01:39 PM

Now, keep in mind that this is only talking about ILLEGAL immigration.

WARNING: R-rated language below

Quote:

If you know me, you'll know that I am indeed a liberal. What I am NOT is a bleeding-heart. I tend to dislike and possibly hate most people. I saw the newest fad of the bleeding-heart movement today on Colfax. This lady (white, blonde, middle aged) had the bumper-sticker "No Human Being is Illegal" on her car. I can understand where she comes from: It is indeed impossible for a person (noun) to be illegal (verb). But if you would like to swap that meaning for the new meaning of "Illegal" (noun + verb: a person that lives in a country illegally), then she is quite wrong. That is what they are. Illegals. I am not jumping on the Bush-train here though. Rest assured that the media distracting us from the issues overseas is not my gullible point. This incident was just so in-my-face today that it must be shared.

I do believe that America is the melting pot/tossed salad/land for immigrants/whatever-the-fuck-you-want-to-call-it, but LEGAL is the key-fucking-word. I don't care how many people from Mexico immigrate here. It could be the whole fucking country for all I care. The only thing I DO care about is doing it legally. There is no excuse why people who don't pay taxes, refuse to speak the language of the land, take advantage of our welfare services, STEAL social security numbers, somehow get preferential treatment over citizens. Last fiscal year, I grossed about $6,000. Yeah. For the whole year. Sucks, huh? On top of making so little, Uncle Sam decided I owed him a couple hundred dollars. Why the FUCK am I persecuted and paying for someone else's ticket while I was already sosososooooo below the poverty line?

A few weeks ago at work, (a car dealership), I heard a buzz about how one of the customers was dead. Naturally, I stand up to look around and see who keeled over (not a bleeding-heart). Instead, I see my manager escorting a group of three Mexican men out the door. I ask a salesman what was going on. What happened was one of the men wanted to buy a vehicle and had to submit a credit check. Standard Procedure. The results, which were available in about 30 seconds, showed "DECEASED" front and center of the report. Upon learning this, the man insisted that was "his" social security number and we were doing something wrong. Uh-Huh. Right. That's when the manager came over and insisted if they wanted to continue business with us, we were going to need a copy of his driver's license AND his social security card. Guy was outraged (imagine that...) and was escorted out. Makes you wonder who's using your information while you're still alive, huh?

So, let's review what we've learned: A noun (human being: homo-sapien) cannot be or become a verb (illegal: an action that is against a law), but they can be classified as an Illegal (A person who lives in a country illegally). If I see that woman (subject) again, I swear to god I'm going to do something illegal (verb) to her car (noun).

On the lighter side, on my way home off Colfax, I saw an old hippie dude on a scooter with a patch saying "Who Would Jesus Bomb?" There really is no better way to wrap up the hypocrisy in the religion world. The only religion that can wash their hands clean of this charge is Buddhism. Buddhists don't fuck with anybody. In my next life, I should be a Buddhist. It would definately reduce my stress level.

I wrote this on September 27, 2006 and have gotten interesting responses.

What do YOU think?

(remember, I am addressing illegal immigration only)

Aleser · 07-06-2007, 03:50 PM

I agree fully. I'm personally -very- pro-immigration, but LEGALLY. I live in Arizona (in the us) right now, so I've met my share of mexicans that have been here 2+ years who don't speak a word of english. For every country I've been in, I've worked my bum off to pick up the language and respect the locals, but you can't at least try and speak a total of two whole languages? Some of them even go out of their way to feel insulted that -we- don't accomidate -their- culture.

It's frustrating. I wish people would get the hint that you're not going to live a half decent life without papers, so you might as well try and move legally or stay where you came from. If you do find yourself here, realize that (as with ANY country you move to) you've got to show some respect to others and at least give it your best efforts in learning the language and cultural rules. In america, there's relatively little of that (since we have so many ethnicities represented), but it's still there. In my "home" culture, -not- hugging and kissing several times on the cheek
(for women) as greeting is essentially being rude. In america, doing that to someone you just met might get you punched.

PuyoPiyo · 07-07-2007, 05:15 PM

Well.. I don't think they should call it "illegal" or "legal" immgrants, the earth, WHOLE earth is our home. Boundaries are just made from man. Everyone should move whatever wherever they want.

dreama · 07-08-2007, 01:56 PM

Well, it depends why they are immigrating doesn't it. If they fear for their lives in their own country and don't trust the US to treat them fairly they might just sneak in. I think you have to show some understanding for their cercumstances.

The only immigrants I have issues with are those who refuse guide dogs, plant bombs or otherwise don't behave themselves as they give immigrants a bad name.

Sorry I'm about to go off topic here but can't resist. I have a T shirt with Illigal immigrants on it. There are 4 pictures. 1. has a lizard in it injoying itself in the sun. 2. has a hand grabbing the lizard. 3. is an Airoplane. 4 is lizard in a cage with a price tag on it. It's against the capture of wildlife for pets.

jazzy · 07-08-2007, 02:30 PM

No human being is illegal, interest words here. I need time to ponder on this quote.

I wish to live in peace with my neighborhood and everywhere I go but it is getting harder and harder everyday. I feel more boil in my blood when I see my neighbor refused to fly American flag and fly Mexican flag front of his house. We can not do anything about it. He laughed at us and he is winning the war by put us into rage and break us down. This is what I see right now with our country, break our government and our country down. It divided us.

I hate to shopping at walmart now that they are doing buisiness with illegal aliens(where they make profits off from them). Once they caught a couple who stole alot stuffs and brought them to the office. They did not call cop on them because one of them was pregnant and her boyfrined is here illegal so they do not want to deport him back to Mexico. They warned them and told them never to come back to the store and let them go. I was thinking what would happen to us if we caught, would they let us go? I doubt it.

jazzy · 07-08-2007, 02:38 PM

[quote=dreama;801928]Well, it depends why they are immigrating doesn't it. If they fear for their lives in their own country and don't trust the US to treat them fairly they might just sneak in. I think you have to show some understanding for their cercumstances.

QUOTE]

There is nothing wrong with their country espcially in Mexico, they just want to come here to steal our jobs away from us. Maybe it is time for us to take over Mexico and Mexico become USA cuz it seems almost everyone from there want to come here and be part of USA.

dreama · 07-08-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

There is nothing wrong with their country espcially in Mexico, they just want to come here to steal our jobs away from us. Maybe it is time for us to take over Mexico and Mexico become USA cuz it seems almost everyone from there want to come here and be part of USA.

Don't know about Mexican imigrants but in many parts of the world people are persicuted for what they believe in so they have to flee their country. They might come illigally because they just don't have the time to process papers or anything like that. It DOES happen you know. Also in some south American countries people simply go missing. I used to belong to Amnesty international so I should know.

Aleser · 07-08-2007, 03:27 PM

In the case of a person fleeing for their country for safety, be it from war, religious prosecution, ect: they are NOT illegal. They're refugees. It is completely different than the majority of mexicans who move here for reasons like better jobs, ect.

A refugee who comes into the country without any form of proper paperwork deserves our compassion- they're running away from horrible problems where they often fear for their life -every single day-.

An immigrant who comes here without valid paperwork isn't running, they're simply moving. While I don't agree with criminal charges, I do agree with returning them to their original country granted it has not become a conflicted area since they entered the us, and they shouldn't be allowed to return as anything other than refugees, even if they pursue "legal" routes.

jazzy · 07-08-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Don't know about Mexican imigrants but in many parts of the world people are persicuted for what they believe in so they have to flee their country. They might come illigally because they just don't have the time to process papers or anything like that. It DOES happen you know. Also in some south American countries people simply go missing. I used to belong to Amnesty international so I should know.

They are not same one as I was talking about, from our next door not from rest of the world. I do support anyone who come to America to escape from their brutal country but from Mexico, nothing is wrong with their country. Only reason they come here is to make money. And they come here to try to change here by make everything around here to their culture and refuse to live in our culture. Learn how to speak and write English. Everything around here is half/half. My grandparents were immgrant and they learned how to read and speak english. why not them too?

jazzy · 07-08-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

In the case of a person fleeing for their country for safety, be it from war, religious prosecution, ect: they are NOT illegal. They're refugees. It is completely different than the majority of mexicans who move here for reasons like better jobs, ect.

A refugee who comes into the country without any form of proper paperwork deserves our compassion- they're running away from horrible problems where they often fear for their life -every single day-.

An immigrant who comes here without valid paperwork isn't running, they're simply moving. While I don't agree with criminal charges, I do agree with returning them to their original country granted it has not become a conflicted area since they entered the us, and they shouldn't be allowed to return as anything other than refugees, even if they pursue "legal" routes.

I agree with u about those refugees, I have no problem with them come here. the issues we are having problem is right now is not with those refugees. Illegal aliens I live among with are not refugee, they are mostly from Mexico.

***VamPyroX*** · 07-09-2007, 12:05 PM

I have nothing against immigrants... as long as they are treated the say as we are. If we have to pay taxes, then they should pay taxes. If we have to do credit checks, then they have to do credit checks.

There shouldn't be any pitiful flexibility for those who are here illegally.

Foxrac · 07-09-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Well.. I don't think they should call it "illegal" or "legal" immgrants, the earth, WHOLE earth is our home. Boundaries are just made from man. Everyone should move whatever wherever they want.

Yup, I agree.

I don't care if more illegal immigrants are move to USA since they don't bother me.

I wouldn't mind if I live in apt with numerous of illegal immigrants like in LA metro.

neecy · 07-09-2007, 01:04 PM

The biggest issue with illegal immigrants (specifically from Mexico) is the hypocrisy. Mexico itself will NOT allow anybody from any of their neighboring countries to immgrate into their country, and then turn around and moan and becry the fact that the US wants to do the same thing. They simply want to have their cake and eat it too, because of the millions of dollars that illegal immigrants funnel back into Mexico. Its a HUGE case of the pot calling the kettle black.

dreama · 07-09-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

In the case of a person fleeing for their country for safety, be it from war, religious prosecution, ect: they are NOT illegal. They're refugees. It is completely different than the majority of mexicans who move here for reasons like better jobs, ect.

A refugee who comes into the country without any form of proper paperwork deserves our compassion- they're running away from horrible problems where they often fear for their life -every single day-.

An immigrant who comes here without valid paperwork isn't running, they're simply moving. While I don't agree with criminal charges, I do agree with returning them to their original country granted it has not become a conflicted area since they entered the us, and they shouldn't be allowed to return as anything other than refugees, even if they pursue "legal" routes.

I don't know how it is in USA but here in England the home office doesn't seem to make any differance between illigal immigrants that just want a better life style and refugees that CANT go back. They are both treated to the 3rd degree. Also refugee's who don't want to discuss why they are here for fear of attracting attention to themselves and risking the life of family members back at home or because they just don't want to bring up bad memories of abuse, will be seen as illigal imigrant. For this reason I don't believe in sending anybody back.

Foxrac · 07-09-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

I don't know how it is in USA but here in England the home office doesn't seem to make any differance between illigal immigrants that just want a better life style and refugees that CANT go back. They are both treated to the 3rd degree. Also refugee's who don't want to discuss why they are here for fear of attracting attention to themselves and risking the life of family members back at home or because they just don't want to bring up bad memories of abuse, will be seen as illigal imigrant. For this reason I don't believe in sending anybody back.

Deport them to their national countries aren't good idea since they can cross into USA again.

Sheila · 07-10-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

There shouldn't be any pitiful flexibility for those who are here illegally.

I couldn't have said it better myself! That's EXACTLY one of my biggest triggers.

dreama · 07-11-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

There shouldn't be any pitiful flexibility for those who are here illegally.

So you would have them returned. Even if they were going to their deaths in some opressive resime or other.

Sheila · 07-11-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

So you would have them returned. Even if they were going to their deaths in some opressive resime or other.

Yep. If they came here as refugees, which someone covered earlier, it would be different. But yep, send 'em back.

Tousi · 07-11-2007, 09:05 PM

Go back across the Rio and start anew and legally.

dreama · 07-12-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheila

Yep. If they came here as refugees, which someone covered earlier, it would be different. But yep, send 'em back.

So if they get tortured slowly before dying in a prison cell you still think they should be sent back.

I don't believe in sending ANYBODY back.

Sheila · 07-26-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

So if they get tortured slowly before dying in a prison cell you still think they should be sent back.

I don't believe in sending ANYBODY back.

Are you still talking about refugees? Refer to what I said above. That is different. Just wanting to come here and mooch is wrong.

07-06-2007, 03:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Aleser Woosh. Yes, Woosh. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 571	I agree fully. I'm personally -very- pro-immigration, but LEGALLY. I live in Arizona (in the us) right now, so I've met my share of mexicans that have been here 2+ years who don't speak a word of english. For every country I've been in, I've worked my bum off to pick up the language and respect the locals, but you can't at least try and speak a total of two whole languages? Some of them even go out of their way to feel insulted that -we- don't accomidate -their- culture. It's frustrating. I wish people would get the hint that you're not going to live a half decent life without papers, so you might as well try and move legally or stay where you came from. If you do find yourself here, realize that (as with ANY country you move to) you've got to show some respect to others and at least give it your best efforts in learning the language and cultural rules. In america, there's relatively little of that (since we have so many ethnicities represented), but it's still there. In my "home" culture, -not- hugging and kissing several times on the cheek (for women) as greeting is essentially being rude. In america, doing that to someone you just met might get you punched. __________________ "She thinks... she can make people do what she wants or needs, what is right, by the sheer force of her own talent, not by forcing them... she can teach them and persuade them... that they'll catch it from her. This is still faith in their rationality, in the omnipotence of reason. The mistake? Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them."

07-07-2007, 05:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo My Property!! >:( Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fourth Plain Village WA Posts: 5,182	Well.. I don't think they should call it "illegal" or "legal" immgrants, the earth, WHOLE earth is our home. Boundaries are just made from man. Everyone should move whatever wherever they want. __________________ Note: Not credit by myself.

07-08-2007, 01:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
dreama deafblind vegan Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England Posts: 1,093	Well, it depends why they are immigrating doesn't it. If they fear for their lives in their own country and don't trust the US to treat them fairly they might just sneak in. I think you have to show some understanding for their cercumstances. The only immigrants I have issues with are those who refuse guide dogs, plant bombs or otherwise don't behave themselves as they give immigrants a bad name. Sorry I'm about to go off topic here but can't resist. I have a T shirt with Illigal immigrants on it. There are 4 pictures. 1. has a lizard in it injoying itself in the sun. 2. has a hand grabbing the lizard. 3. is an Airoplane. 4 is lizard in a cage with a price tag on it. It's against the capture of wildlife for pets. __________________ I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. http://www.fightfoca.com/

07-08-2007, 02:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
jazzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,196	No human being is illegal, interest words here. I need time to ponder on this quote. I wish to live in peace with my neighborhood and everywhere I go but it is getting harder and harder everyday. I feel more boil in my blood when I see my neighbor refused to fly American flag and fly Mexican flag front of his house. We can not do anything about it. He laughed at us and he is winning the war by put us into rage and break us down. This is what I see right now with our country, break our government and our country down. It divided us. I hate to shopping at walmart now that they are doing buisiness with illegal aliens(where they make profits off from them). Once they caught a couple who stole alot stuffs and brought them to the office. They did not call cop on them because one of them was pregnant and her boyfrined is here illegal so they do not want to deport him back to Mexico. They warned them and told them never to come back to the store and let them go. I was thinking what would happen to us if we caught, would they let us go? I doubt it. __________________

07-08-2007, 02:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
jazzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,196	[quote=dreama;801928]Well, it depends why they are immigrating doesn't it. If they fear for their lives in their own country and don't trust the US to treat them fairly they might just sneak in. I think you have to show some understanding for their cercumstances. QUOTE] There is nothing wrong with their country espcially in Mexico, they just want to come here to steal our jobs away from us. Maybe it is time for us to take over Mexico and Mexico become USA cuz it seems almost everyone from there want to come here and be part of USA. __________________

Today
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07-08-2007, 03:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
Aleser Woosh. Yes, Woosh. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 571	In the case of a person fleeing for their country for safety, be it from war, religious prosecution, ect: they are NOT illegal. They're refugees. It is completely different than the majority of mexicans who move here for reasons like better jobs, ect. A refugee who comes into the country without any form of proper paperwork deserves our compassion- they're running away from horrible problems where they often fear for their life -every single day-. An immigrant who comes here without valid paperwork isn't running, they're simply moving. While I don't agree with criminal charges, I do agree with returning them to their original country granted it has not become a conflicted area since they entered the us, and they shouldn't be allowed to return as anything other than refugees, even if they pursue "legal" routes. __________________ "She thinks... she can make people do what she wants or needs, what is right, by the sheer force of her own talent, not by forcing them... she can teach them and persuade them... that they'll catch it from her. This is still faith in their rationality, in the omnipotence of reason. The mistake? Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them."

07-09-2007, 12:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 27,867	I have nothing against immigrants... as long as they are treated the say as we are. If we have to pay taxes, then they should pay taxes. If we have to do credit checks, then they have to do credit checks. There shouldn't be any pitiful flexibility for those who are here illegally. __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

07-09-2007, 01:04 PM	#13 (permalink)
neecy Use the Google, Luke! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Posts: 1,400	The biggest issue with illegal immigrants (specifically from Mexico) is the hypocrisy. Mexico itself will NOT allow anybody from any of their neighboring countries to immgrate into their country, and then turn around and moan and becry the fact that the US wants to do the same thing. They simply want to have their cake and eat it too, because of the millions of dollars that illegal immigrants funnel back into Mexico. Its a HUGE case of the pot calling the kettle black. __________________ Randy Pausch - The Last Lecture ~ RIP July 25, 2008 http://www.taudiobook.com/closed_cap...y_pausch_full/ My CI blog: http://bionicgal.blogspot.com

07-11-2007, 09:05 PM	#19 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,249	Go back across the Rio and start anew and legally.

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