Audiofuzzy

p. s.
when I wrote that I meant simply "for whatever reason".

But, since we are discussing the choice of words- if she wanted them , would she kill them ?

Fuzzy

Deafness

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Audiofuzzy

p.ps.

I am sorry, I don't know how it happens but sometimes when I check the spelling and correct it, it comes out as uncorrected, anyway. I must be doing something wrong.

It's supposed to be antropomorphism.
no H after the first T.

Anthropomorphism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fuzzzzzzy

Liebling:-)))

Yes, true.

The mothers (animal) do not kill their own kitten, puppies, cubs, or whatever because they don't want them.

1. The mother know straight way that her kitten or whatever are sick or something wrong after birth then they eat them or aviod to feed them with milk.

2. The mother eat or aviod them if you touch her kitten after birth because kitten's smell is not belong to her.

Fuzzy,

I taught my boys to respect Kim, my cat who gave birth to 4 kitten last year - no touch until Kim let them and explain them why... They know from educate at school about animal and respect Kim and her kitten. Few days later after that, surprisely, Kim trust me to touch her kitten, not my boys and hubby... I was going to pat Kim's head but she bite my hand and got my hand to her kitten... My boys and hubby were like when they tried to touch kitten after me but Kim hissed to them... I am one who allow to touch her kitten... Like what I say that each animal have feeling and know who they can trust to.

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Audiofuzzy

1. so, for whatever reason -bottom line is- she does not wants them because her kitten or whatever are sick or something wrong after birth, or kitten's smell is not belong to her.

2. I agree with you and disagree.
we know why she killed them if we can SEE there was something wrong with the kittens and can explain it,
but what if the mother cat kills their babies when they are seemingly perfect? only she can know (or not....) and we - we can not then say " for 100% it was because of...." . We only know of POSSIBLE reasons.

Does humans kill their babies because somebody touch the babies or because something is wrong with the babies?



Fuzzy

Audiofuzzy

what really happened is, your cat learned by experience long before she had her first litter
how she is being treated by whom, and from this she learned who she can "trust" and whom can not.

It's not the "feeling" she gets- it's what she learned from being with you all.

it's logical - kids often mistreat animals mainly because they do not know how to handle them properly, and sometimes don't have enough restraint from "overplaying" with them.
and cats are wary of children particularly,

also of men because most men tend to be more rough in handling them.

Women tend to be softer, more patient, delicate and tolerant. Also, usually it's female who take care of pets, feed them, not man.

You yourself wrote you taught your children how to behave around your cat. she learned from it the first day she came to your house - she learned that you always behave like she likes, and protect her,
and your children tend to annoy her.
that's enough. it's learned behavior. not suprising to me.


Fuzzy

Liebling:-)))

Well, the human and animal have feeling but we human and animal have different feeling when we know something wrong with our babies. Animal know from their feeling after birth to their babies that something wrong with their babies before killed them. Example about Eskimos.

Oh yes, humans do kill their babies for the different reasons like the animal killed their babies for the different reasons. Example: Eskimos kill newborns for the reasons is because their babies are sick and weak. The depression-suffering mothers killed their babies because they do not feel for them and think the babies are not belongs to them.

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Angel

Re-read it again, it did not say anything about she did not want them....

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Liebling:-)))

[quote]I think you didn't know much about Kim and why Kim trust me more than my family and friends is because I'm the one who found her in forest as starving kitten in the forest and take care of her for 3 years now.

To me, yes.

I didn't know that the kids often mistreat the animals because I often see the kids take care of animal in loving way. I don't beleive that it's just kids but adult as well who mistreat the animals. I have Sussi, my 21 years old cat before start to have 2 boys. Logical, they as toddlers have no idea when they "overplaying" with her... I taught them and raise them to know how to respect animals.

Maybe yes but not all.

I has to honest with you that it's my hubby who feed and take care of 4 cats mostly than me because I am full time working and he is part time at evening working. Sussi and Flecky love him more than me and Kim & Blacky love me more than him... Its depend on their feeling and comfortable how they want to come toward me or him. 4 cats don't care about my boys and come to them if they feel want to.

Well, it's parental's responsiblity to teach their children in positive way, no matter either they are behave or not. Right?

I already know that my boys show their respect on my 21 years old Sussi since they are little and then later Kim in 1995 but it's still my job task as parent to make sure that my boys should not touch kitten yet and explain why. They already know from school and TV etc. They didn't touch which is a great... My boys are animal lovers.

Kim is not a friendly cat to my family and friends except me. Kim allow me do what I want with her, not anyone. My boys know and doesn't touch Kim but 3 other cats. It's up to Kim if she want affection then go to my boys or hubby.

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Angel

Right!

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"When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

Audiofuzzy

B-I-N-G-O !!!!

ever since she associates you with safety and survival.
she doesn't need anything else to trust you over anybody else, even with her kittens. that is perfect example of how the cats "feel".

Have you ever read any serious scientific books, or articles that explain about how animals really "think"?
Have you ever read about cat's or dog's behavior, written by animal psychologist?
I suggest read Elizabeth Marshall Thomas "The social life of dogs"

- fascinating read. That will give you an incline what's really going on.
Amazon.ca: The Social Lives of Dogs: Books: Elizabeth Marshall Thomas


Another book I recommend is Stanley Coren: How To Speak Dog and How Dogs Think : Understanding the Canine Mind. Also fantastic read.

Likewise, there is plenty of books explaining about cats, too.



Bottom line is kids are inexperienced, period.
That is what I am talking about. also older kids who never had a cat before. Cat will remember that forever.





Please, come on Liebling, do not go overboard, OK.
First of all I never said humans never kill another human being no matter how old,
but for a human to kill another human being is not a normal thing to do. For animal it is!! That's a HUUUUGE difference!!

A mother that is depressed is mentally sick at the moment, not responsible for her actions, while the cat is not.

I've never heard of Eskimo killing their sick babies - I don't believe it at all- that probably used to happen long time ago - killing a baby is murder punishable by law -but even if this is true there is a big difference between a cat killing their babies because its smells "bad" while otherwise is being perfectly healthy; and a sick suffering dying baby with no way to survive because of harsh conditions which adults themselves often don't survive.

Try to live at the North Pole with nothing but snow and ice, with the only source of fire being from seal's fat (no wood there, and you have to first hunt the seal), and no amenities like we have here (water, electricity, medicines, etc.) let alone doctors and hospitals.
I am sure to a normal human being to kill any let alone its own baby is a terrible tragedy. An animal doesn't give it second thought.

Come on.!! use your common sense.


I know what you wrote, I understand. The problem is you seem not to understand ME.

I wrote a cat mother kill their own babies, you wrote not quite true. I said yes it is, and gave you links to support my fact.

I wrote "because they not want them" - you think it means cat is like human and she thinks like human "oh I don't wanna go to work today..." "oh, I don't wanna these babies they are needy, they depress me..."

NO, that's not what happens and not what I meant.

- animals don't want their babies sometimes, period,

if they reject, abandon or kill them is for whatever reason but not the feelings of human category.
If the animal mother is taking a great care of their babies it's because the better care the better survival rate - it has nothing to do with love or any other feelings.



Stop thinking of an animal, a cat, as a human being because it is NOT.


Fuzzy

Audiofuzzy

No it's NOT! sorry again - I gotta straighten that one out!! - trust me, I tried my best to figure the proper spelling.

the trouble is when I put the correct spelling in Google bar I had trouble finding the right defintion. When I put the wrong spelling all sorts of proper definitons came up.

just look here:
antropomorphism - Google Search

But I figured today, since when you click on the website the word switches automatically to "anthropomorphism" again.

(redirected from Antropomorphism)

so, the "anthro... " must be, after all the correct spelling,
Sorry for the confusion. As I've said I was doing something wrong, because TODAY when I put the correct spelling again in the Google bar it came out right!! sighs.


Anthropomorphism. - the attribution of uniquely human characteristics and qualities to nonhuman beings,...


Fuzzy

Maria

It's true that animals abandon/kill their babies for some reasons, Fuzzy. It depends on the cirmcumstance.

Audiofuzzy

You don't have to convince ME
Circumstances - yes but not like human circumstances.
That is what I am trying to point out all this time. The whole discussion started on animals having feelings. They do have some but it's not like we humans have.

Fuzzy

Foxrac

woot, I'm pro-abortion, let women to have choice, whatever they want too.

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jillio

Yeah, I think the president had one of those hunting accidents recently! LOL.

Foxrac

Damn, forgot to mention about except.

I support abortion except for late term like tier 2/3, depends on situation, Fuzzy.

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God bless America

Maria

Of course, I have to agree with ya. Animals circumstances and human circumstances are different.

Liebling:-)))

[quote]Thank you for provide interesting link.

Yes, I know that cats and dogs do have body gesture/language like what I explained in other thread.

Yes, they do not talk like humans, but it's very easy for the humans to read cats/dogs's body gesture/language is ear postion and facial expressions.




Well, I would say "inexperienced" is for children and adult who have no clue what/how they are doing in their life. For the children, without parental's education, they would go wrong path (immaturity, etc). It's not just children but adult, too. The children/toddlers need parent's education to develop to be young maturity and responsibility young adult and learn to know what wrong and right or what it's about.

Okay, okay, okay...

I only answer your question - "Does humans kill their babies because somebody touch the babies or because something is wrong with the babies?"

Yes I know but I only answer your question "Does humans kill their babies...." I answered Yes........


Yes, I know it's not normal for human to kill another human... We know from the crime law that we humans should not kill each other or kill other humans but no law for animals who kill each other or kill other animals...

Like what I said in other thread that Animal and human are not equal.





Yes, that's right.

It's uncommon like this... It took me a while until I found few links about Eskimo's culture. I agree that it could be old Tradition... I learn from TV document at years ago.

Quote:

Eskimo children were eaten by the parents and older siblings during times of famine.

Infanticide - Changing views of the nature of the child

Some people provided few interesting links in those forum about Eskimo killed babies...
Eskimos kill their young? - snopes.com

Yes, I agree that killing a baby is murder but I guess it could be old Eskimo tradition/culture?

Yes I agree about cat killing their babies for some reasons.

Yes I aware it.





Well, Angel only took part of your post saying:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy
The cat mother is known to kill their own offspring if they do not want them. Same with dogs. same mice.
Some herbivores don't give a damn about their newborns as well.

You should typed The cat mother kill their own offspring for some reasons, not "do not want them"

Animals are very protective mothers who protect their babies against others and hide them and make sure nobody sees their babies. I can't image that they kill them because they don't want them... they only kill their babies for reasons.


Yes, some ADers confused the title of my thread "Do you treat human and animal equal?" with "Animal and human are equal" which I never say... It's "Do you treat human and animal equal?", I referred with question, not animal and human are equal. I already know that human and animal are not equal but animal deserve to be treat equal as human with respect. This is a difference.

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webexplorer

I think that I should write this on the topic...

You have seen some news about Vick the football pro players setup his dogfights in his home place. He finally kicked out of the game permanently. He was supposed to go to prison for six years. Guess what?

The NAACP group (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) fought for his right not to go to prison - even, they do not care about his troubles because he is a black man so they are also black people. They helped him out of the prison. These NAACP are so bad now. I have no respect them because of Vick's serious troubles. I do respect blacks, but they should know better than that. They did not use their common sense. I want Vick to go hell forever.

These pitbull dogs are slaughtered at his place which is so obvious. Did they eat the dog meat?

Reba

You mean the VP.

Foxrac

Time for PETA vs. NAACP, lol...

I feel that PETA can override NAACP's decision, it has nothing with races.

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