Reba

If all raising of animals for meat were outlawed tomorrow, where would all the domestic farm animals go, free range or not?

Without hunters, the deer population would begin a cycle of population explosion, and then starvation. Ducks and geese would overwhelm public fresh water areas. (I've already seen it happen on a small scale in our local protected areas.)

Are they big enough to handle ALL the animals?

Government farm subsidies are not provided for charitable reasons but for economic control reasons. The money is for the farmer, not the animals. If anything, the government would have to provide subsidies for the farmers to convert their land from animal support to growing people crops.


Wow, that's a generality!

Personally, I've never eaten meat three times a day, and rarely even twice a day.

Why is it "greed" to want affordable food for yourself and your family?


That's really convoluted logic, and absolutely not a solution.


I thought we were discussing a scenario of all meat production being shut down. If that's the case, then all the animals would be set free with no one responsible for taking care of them, just like wild animals. They wouldn't be the equivalent to "pets". They wouldn't be "kept" in any kind of standards because they would be "free".

BTW, on a technical note, with cattle you need only castrate the male animals; you don't need to "spay" the females. Castration is a less invasive procedure than spaying.

Deafness

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Reba

Meat animals don't "love" us, and they don't "know" that they will be eaten by people. They don't stand around worrying about that or discussing it with each other.

Audiofuzzy

Again, you've missed my entire point which was- what would you do if during winter you were lost and your child was dying of hunger, and the only food available was meat? would you let your child starve to death or would you save her or him by killing an animal for food?

Ok, I might have not been very clear. You challenged me by asking:

I replied:
may I add it was before Reba mentioned about bulls castrated. I had in mind castration WITH anesthesia.

and YOU replied:

We were finished talking about animals being killed at this point.
We moved onto castration. I asked you how do you justify castrating animals. Not in exact words, of course, but that was the point of what I wrote then.

Some people think it's inhumane, cruel and offensive, unneccessary interference in nature.
Why save animals only to mutilate them?
Don't you think if we should leave animals to their own, we should leave them alone completely?
or, in other words- don't animals have rights to decide about their own fate which considers breeding as well?

I didn't ask you whether killing is cruel, I asked HOW do you, Dreama, JUSTIFY it?


To Puyo Piyo:
Right, I forgot that, sorry.
Will you let me challenge you further?
Would you kill your beloved pet if your child's life depended on it?

Fuzzy

PuyoPiyo

Yes they do. If they don't love us, then....
why one of your dog run to you when you come back to home?
Why that dog barking at you all the way to express how that dog miss you? See that dog's tail wagging as exicting to see you?
Why did that dog pesting you to patting, holding, loving that dog?
Once you push that dog away, why did that dog have frown face?
Once you got mad at that dog, why did that dog have the qulity look?
Once you told that dog to sit down, why did that dog do it?

Animals do have feelings too.

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PuyoPiyo

Well it sounds you are just trying to make me wrong, I already stats that I only see the meat as surivival, not as having a good dinner for pleasure of taste, which are rude to the true nature (my opinion).

So yes, I will kill my pet for my child just if I have to. If there is meats at the food store that I can buy, why should I kill my pet? That is exactly what Reba said.

Sorry we are not dogs that would eat more meats mindlessly, sorry we are not T-Rex which roars and run for the meats into cruelity action, sorry we are not sharks that bite things that aren't really our meats, we are just the humans and we are different than them, plus we are unnecessary eat the meat all the times ourselves.

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Reba

Notice I said "meat animals", not pets.

A herd of cows doesn't care one hoot about you or me.

Audiofuzzy

no, I am just trying to show how in certain circumstances even the most dedicated vegan would be forced to eat meat.
And a bit of meat would go much farther than a bucket of berries in a harsh situation.

Creating a good nutritious vegeterian meal takes a lot more than creating one with meat. The above example just illustrates how much easier to get, and more nutritious is meat.


that is right.


Fuzzy

Foxrac

Oh, Reba and don't forgot to check in your backyard.

Pets are part of animal, also would be idiot if anyone want kill dogs or cats for meat, not just for you.

I know that you won't, never happen.

I can see that one doll is crying at you, I guess that they love you.

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Reba

PuyoPiyo

Well it sounds like you are totally disrespectful to the vegetarian/vegans but just begging them to eat the meat while they don't have to. It makes me feel like you are a disgust person who trying to make people to eat such a gore violence foods. I never see any vegetarian/vegans in person that would actually force other meat eaters to quit eating the meat, so please quit getting pissing off about the vegetarian/vegans.

Please change your script "I love vegetarians, more meat for you" and we can laugh you and considering you as a sick person.


Well if you think the vegetarian animals didn't show us the love, then why my vegetarian guinea pig always tucking herself on my neck and wouldn't run away from her own cage, why did she always cooing when I pet her?

And what's more, the reason why the cow didn't hoot for us is because that cow was threaten so badly by farms so that cow have no heart and live that way. I want to ask why did some of meat eaters want to kill us instead of being friendly to us? Lions, sharks, tigers, etc for example? So this is not true, not all of vegetarian animals that doesn't show us the love.

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Reba

Your guinea pig is NOT raised as a meat animal; she is your personal PET. Your pet responds to your attention. A herd of cows doesn't recognize you, doesn't care about you. You and the cows never meet, never have any interaction.

BTW, it's not just "vegetarian" animals who are lovable pets. Non-vegetarian animals, like dogs, make loyal companions, too.

Animals operate on instinct, trained responses, and need.

PuyoPiyo

Yupp animals are the varies. Some animals simple ignore the people as well, I am with you on this one.


Yupp they do it for surivival

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Foxrac

It's not new, she is used to argue with me about CI issue since she's pro to implant on babies and todlers.

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Foxrac

then nevermind.

Puyo is just explain so clearly and check her post out below.

Last sentence is just joke, sense of humor.

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PuyoPiyo

Yeah Liebling told me the same thing, she did the same thing to Liebling too. *sigh*... I am total against implant on the babies 'n' todlers too..

"She"? Who's she? Me? It's he

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rockdrummer

It's called the food chain people. Man has hunted and eaten animals since the begining of time. It's nature. Even the animals hunt and eat other animals. Some animals even eat humans. Humans are meerly another form of animal. Survival of the fittest. This is the course of nature and will never be stopped. It's needed on many levels for many reasons.

Foxrac

Oop, my bad...

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webexplorer

I am surprised that Reba has a beautiful black cat on her picture (her aviator). I bet that she loves her cat. Isn't her cat animal? Does she comes to you when you call her?

You are right one thing about cows... and horses. They don't give a damn about us except giving them the food that make them happy. It is the same idea for teenagers (i.e. 14 years old or older) who do not give a shit about their mother who works hard to provide them. The teenagers rather like to come to their mother if she feed them a lot. Am I right? (Sorry, I say the nasty word, but that's what the teenagers say in their mind.)

Reba

Yes, I loved my black Oriental Ninja kitty. Sometimes he came when called; he had an independent attitude. He is deceased now, and buried in my backyard.

Actually, dairy cows on small farms respond to the farmer's call, and horses can make a connection with their riders. It's mostly beef cattle herds, hogs, etc., that I'm referring to that aren't interested in humans.


Normally, that's a temporary phase until the teen matures.

Audiofuzzy

First of all - I am not disrespectful to vegetatians and vegans and whatever. I respect them all right.

I am simply pointing out the holes and disrepancies in your arguments.

I already told you as long as you do not try to convince me you are right and I am wrong I have no problem with anyone not wanting to eat meat.

Likewise, I believe in "live and let live" - so I am certainly NOT forcing anyone to eat meat.
once again, I merely point out the inconsistencies in one's arguments.
It has nothing do to with me being meat eater or vegetarian.

It's just - when you start defending your point of view - have your arguments accurate and scientific.

Don't tell me things "like pets have feelings" -
do you actually have scientific PROOF of it? Don't tell me plant food is all the human needs either,
because the scientific findings while sometimes contradict themselves have a few things agreed on - for example that meat is the best source of Iron hands off,

Iron & Anemia - Ask the Dietitian

Best sources of iron

plants have some things that meat doesn't and meat have some things that plants don't. That is why is smart to eat balanced meal of both. (and more)


What does my example of ""one rabbit vs a bucket of berries"" tells you?

Because it tells me that, clearly, a meat is more nutritous and better for survival for us humans than plants.
Imagine trying to gather as much proteins from plants alone for yourself while gathering food in winter.

Please keep in mind that you will digest less Iron from plant than you will digest from meat.

So, you will need much more beans than rabbits to get the same amount of Iron to keep you healthy.
Try to get enough beans in a few long months of winter.

To me it all means - meat is very important to humans, hands off.


It is all fine and dandy to be vegetarian nowadays with stores full of fancy products made specifically for you. but without it...

What if you have but a tiny plot of earth to cultivate, and a droughts year after year.

That's reality. look at poor countries.

As for other comments -about infant CI, Liebling - well, some people like to discuss without fully understanding the whole background of things.

I am not saying I know everything because I don't. But I usually don't discuss things I am not familiar with.



Fuzzy

PuyoPiyo

Nah it's okay

Hmm.. About the iron, I just learned from Reba at the Health Quiz threads at the Health section created by Liebling that men doesn't need to worry about the iron much like the women because men does not lose the blood much like the women do. So I think I do eat enough iron myself. Thank you for advice..

Sorry shorty reply to your big post.

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