Audiofuzzy

Reba's right, but I will tackle your QQQ Puyo anyway.

But first - what animals are you talking about?

Fuzzy

Deafness

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dreama

Have you never heard of spaying or neutering animals whose numbers are increasing too rapidly?

With farm animals, I wouldn't be as optomistic as to think that it would happen over night. If factory farming was banned (which I very much hope it is) then the numbers would naturally decrease as free roaming animals need more space. That's how it's always been before and I see no reason for it to happen again when people come to their senses.

Don't know if there would ever be a case of everyone going vegan/vegitarian. It would be great if it ever did happen though.

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Reba

We can't even spay and neuter the dogs and cats; I can't imagine trying to spay and neuter all the farm and game animals.

Theoretically, you would only have to neuter the males, and spaying the females wouldn't be necessary.

How would they "naturally decrease?" Starvation? Fighting over territory?

Who would feed and care for the dependent farm animals? Do you think you can let them loose and they will take care of themselves? Where will they live? Farmers and ranchers won't want to keep non-productive livestock on their land. Someone will have to pay for them.

Audiofuzzy

Yes I've heard of castration. A lot of people feel it's inhuman, and unafir for animals. They consider it a barbarian act of cruelty.

How do you justify such a mass castration?
Doesn't animals have rights to live and reproduce as they wish? Since you feel they have right to live free?
Why is it OK to interfere with castration which some feels is killing unborn helpless babies but not OK to kill an adult animal in order to sustain other species?



If the animals have no natural enemies they'll multiply in abundance.
They do not stop reproducing just because they run out of space to live and food to eat. They'll start dying of starvation and diseases and fight -related injuries. And once their numbers will go low, and food returns,
they'll once again start to reproduce in large numbers as the cycle will be repeated. And it will continue so again and again.
That is "natural"- but how's that better that being killed for food? Dying prolonged painful death of injury and/or starvation?


Predators keeping herbivores and omnivores numbers low- that's how it always been before.

Fuzzy

Reba

Hubby watched his farmer uncle castrate bulls. Not a pretty sight, and the bulls put up quite a fight! It took some strong men to do the job for each one. One bull, tied between the barn posts, almost pulled down the barn!

Liebling:-)))

This remind me of bull fighing in Spain. This Bull fighting is a Spanish tradition/culture. I never forget how I witnessed bull fighting when I was a little girl in Spain. I can´t forget it.

Many people vote to ban Bull fighting and consider it as cruel blood sport but I hope they will do the same to ban animal hunting etc. I consider animal hunting as a cruel sport.

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Maria

That's pretty strong bull ! Wonderin' how much weigh is the bull, the one that almost pulled down the barn ?

I've neever seen anyone castrate on male animals in my entire life.

Audiofuzzy

You would be too if somebody was tearing your b*lls out without any anesthesia.

Fuzzy

Maria

Nah, I don't think so. I would probably scream and fight, but not like this bull Reba was talkin' about when he almost pulled down the barn. I don't have that kind of strength like his.

Think you would be, too like him ? Why don't you try and use your imagination and see, if you COULD pull down the barn when it happens to you ?

Liebling:-)))

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Audiofuzzy

I can't say if you are kidding or not, so I will assume you do

Of course I was speaking metaphorically. Of course I wouldn't be able to REALLY pull down anything bigger and heavier than me, let alone a barn..

I just wanted to illustrate the point- what horrible is the pain the poor bull must feel while they are ripping his tenderest flesh off alive.

Fuzzy

Reba

Bulls are real strong when they are angry, hurt, and scared; their andrenalin 's a pumpin'.

They don't get anesthesia when they get snipped you know.

He was tied between two of the support posts in the barn.

Maria

Unbelievable ...

I was just thinkin' of my dog and I took him to the Vet. to remove his balls and the doctor gave him anesthesia ... comparin' to that bull ~ Yikes ! I could imagine how painful that must be on bull.

The question is : How come the " tame " animals such as dogs, cats and so forth and the other " wild " animals such as bulls, tigers and so forth are different ? I mean, I don't understand why the bulls via * wild * animals don't get the same treatment as my dog get for anesthesia ? I am a little bit confused here. To me, they both are animals afterall. :-\

PuyoPiyo

Those animals as people's pets or farming animals became overpopulation because we did it, we produce more pets for sell in the pet stores, and we produce more farm animals for more foods. Those wild animals could become extincted becaue of our pollution and that is what exactly happened to them today.

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PuyoPiyo

I don't understand how you would tackle my questions, but I mean ANY animals that are wild. Go on Wikipedia and research for any animals you can think of, they usually posted as "least concern", "variable", "endangered", etc. The pet and farm animals do NOT count because they are took care of by us.

Check out poor Panda bears..

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Audiofuzzy

I was confused because we were talking about animals being killed for food.

And here you are suddenly asking me about extinct animals. Like - what, wiped out for food?

Most animals I know were extinct because of horns, or fur, or simply for being pretty (colorful feathers, held in captivity). Or their habitat shrinked badly.
That I disagree with because you can not substitute meat with plants but you can about anything else- clothing, decorative elements etc. Even "natural" medicines.

Fuzzy

PuyoPiyo

No, you misreading my post. My post was directed to Reba's question that what if there are too many wild animals around the world and there will not be enough plant foods for us. But the REALITY in the world, there is many wild animals became extincted even though we let them go wild around the forest. Try go to Zoo for a while, you will see many animals that are endangered to be extincted BECAUSE of our pollution and the main reason why they became extincted is because of the climate change, pollution, not enough place for them to live, water running out, many reason than just the fur or meats or whatever we did the physcial abuse to them.

And what's more, quit trying to proof that I was wrong, I went to the Zoo few weeks ago. I know and ain't stupid.

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dreama

And killing them isn't

Edit: Actually I meant doing it under Aneasthetic like they do with 'pet' animals. Of course any operation like that WITHOUT anesthetic is cruel. I've heard they do it to pigs because they get really agressive cooped up the way they are without anything to do.

On the other hand I've had my first guide dog, my cat Nicky, some male chinchilla's, and some male rats neutered (under anesthetic) and they seemed ok.

As far as farm animals go. The decrease would come naturally because we would stop BREEDING them so much if we went from factory farming to keeping them free range. Then if we ever did stop farming altogether then the animals would simply go to farm sancturies as they wouldn't be capable out in the wild. Although they may be rather full at first they would die out eventually. And of course no animal would be spayed or neutered without Anesthetic.

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Audiofuzzy

Puyo Piyo - OK. I got it now. It's complex issues.

Dreama - you are missing my point. Instead of addressing my point, you went 360 degree - back to what you stated in the first place.

Fuzzy

Reba

I don't know. Where is this free range for all the domestic animals? Of course, deer and other wild animals live "free range" and they multiply like crazy. But no one would feed or water the cattle or protect them from predators, so I guess their numbers would be reduced by starvation, dehydration, disease, and predators. Not a pretty picture.

Who provides the land for these "sanctuaries", and who pays to support them?

Certainly not the farmers and ranchers. They either will be converting their land for crop growing, or they will become bankrupt because they've lost their means of income.

[/quote]And of course no animal would be spayed or neutered without Anesthetic.[/quote]
Who, pray tell, would pay for that? Do you know how much that would cost? Remember, the bigger the animal, the more it costs. It will cost a lot more than neutering dogs.

Buffalo

That is why I am vegetarian. If I can't kill animals myself then I shouldn't eat meat. I would feel hypocritical if I eat meats.

PuyoPiyo

Exactly! That's why it is hard for meat eaters to answer my question "Would you kill your pet for your dinner tonight?".

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Reba

I don't recall you asking that question before.

Anyway, why should I kill a pet for dinner when meat is available at the grocery store? I also don't tear up the grass from my lawn to eat because I can get produce from the grocery store.

PuyoPiyo

Well I asked that question to my family mostly.. Anyway, it seems like you are accept of killing the animals while you keep your pets and buy the meats from food store.

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Audiofuzzy

Ok then answer this - would you let your child die if it needed meat to live? only meat?

for example you are lost in the wild. is winter. there is no suitable plant food to survive. and plenty of cutest white rabbits hopping about.
and your child is about to die from starvation.

Fuzzy

dreama

No child needs meat. That's a complete myth.

I'm at a complete loss as why you think I didn't answer your question

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PuyoPiyo

As my past posts, I already said if I was lost in the desert of nowhere and only have the meat, then I would. I only see the meat as surivival, not enjoying as dinner as rude, my opinion.

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