What if there is NO WAR? - Page 2

dreama · 07-06-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

Many murderers? Look -around- you. A study back in 06 of Iraq found that as much as 655,000 people died because of this war. Civilians. People who could have been your brother, aunt, uncle, sister, mother, grandfather, best friend, lover. If you live in a country that's not at war right now, if you've never lived through a war, take a moment to consider those you love being killed at random. Now, imagine if it was all under the facade of "liberating" you and your now burried loved ones.

War heros are nothing more than murderers who get praise instead of jail time. The only true war heros are those that advocate peace.

I wouldn't just want a war-less world, because that doesn't go hand in hand with the state of HUMANS these days. Harmony and a state that would discourage war would be a more viable dream.

As I said: one day it will happen, Insha'Allah. Eventually we must recognise that fighting has not done the world any good.

Great Post! I totally agree with you. I read a book about the Iraq war by a scandinavian journalist. Some of the things that happened were really really horrible. I don't make any differance between warfare and terrorism. Both are evil.

The only people I would consider war hero's are conciencious objectors.

dreama · 07-06-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That's a disgustingly broad statement.

I don't think so. I think it's a very enlightened observation myself.

darkdog · 07-06-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

War heros are nothing more than murderers who get praise instead of jail time. The only true war heros are those that advocate peace.

I think you're wrong. I see you're from England. My grandfather fought the Germans in WWII. Would you prefer that nobody had fought against the Nazis and instead just let them invade the UK? Have you ever considered that perhaps your life would suck if it weren't for "murderers" like my grandfather fighting Nazism? My grandfather is no murderer. He fought evil and liberated concentration camps. He's a peaceloving person, just like you are. The main difference is he recognizes that sometimes you have to fight bad guys to protect good guys. He advocated peace by the barrel of a gun, and by 1945, he got it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

Eventually we must recognise that fighting has not done the world any good.

I agree that the world would be better off without fighting. We just can't seem to convince the most evil among us of that. I'm into martial arts and I don't want to get in any fights. Yet if I'm attacked, I'd rather fight back than take a beating.

Edit: Oops, it's dreama who's from England. But I'm sure that Whoosh. Yes, Woosh, wherever that is (Pacific Islands, maybe?) is better off without Nazism, too.

KarissaMann05 · 07-06-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Aww that would be very PEACE world. I wish something like that will happen someday..

And NO it does not cause any problem if we stop war. Also there is alot of ways to control the population than just a war, like reduce the prices of cigarettes and reduce the legal age of smokers, or limit how many people can have kids, or raise the unhealthy foods, or charge more expensive when people reproduce another baby, or blah blah blah...

You know, i second that!

I sometimes tired of people who are so worrying about overpopulation.. I was like "relax, there is no reason to worry about.." I'm pretty sure there is many ways to reduce the population. Let scientists fix it!

Well, if it's the world's own problem is overpopulated - let's just put to end the lives of all people over the age of 75 and under the age of 5. That will help the problem but we also should to get ruin of homeless people and unwanted bastard children, too. Those people are hardly contributing to our society, right? Oh, you know, murder will continue to happen regardless of laws passed in attempt to prevent it. Same with the theft and terrorism, too. So, why not let's just remove those laws from the books, and let people murder and steal all they want, because it will reduce. I'm pretty sure it will help the problem anyway. < /sarcasm >

Oh, it's children's fault because they do cause the poverty. One solution for the overpopulation is cannibalism. Don't worry, any child is not blessing anymore. Mmm, oh babies! I particularly the raising of infants as food!
< /sarcastic >

Seriously, if they are worrying about it and why not they just can stand up and DO SOMETHING! Help scientists, probably? To worry is not solve anything but to do something will solve it in many ways. Yes, I'm agree with you, Puyo.

Like, to reduce the birth rate by creating a technical stuff.

Example -
periods six times per year and 50 percents chance to get pregnancy (or could be a little low than 50). How? to use speical non-toxic chemical, i donno. Just do something with a human body to improve the population. I'm not a sciectist but I expect someone create a something so new...

Remember I told you about my idea of slow aging?

PS- I'm sorry if this post is offended but I'm ranting a little here.. I'm also only talking to Puyo. ^_^

webexplorer · 07-06-2007, 11:11 PM

Don't you think that someday someone will put some watches on people's wrist so that the person decides to pick some people and press a red button to shut down their system due overpopulation without having a war? Isn't that weirdo?

Sheila · 07-07-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Don't you think that someday someone will put some watches on people's wrist so that the person decides to pick some people and press a red button to shut down their system due overpopulation without having a war? Isn't that weirdo?

I said it before,

Quote:

That's some 1984-Extreme-Government shit there.

And I'll say it again,

That's some 1984-Extreme-Government shit there.

dreama · 07-07-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdog

I think you're wrong. I see you're from England.

Nope. Aleser isn't from England. I am though. When people want to justify war they always bring up world war 2. Forgetting that World war 1 wasn't properly resolved in it's what caused world war 2. WW1 could easily have been resolved without fighting. It began over something totally trivial and stupid. The war in Afganistan and Iraq are NOT like WW2. Whilst Sadam Hussien was no angel he didn't have the power to act the way Hitler did so it's a totally differant set up and could very easily have been resolved without warfare.

Quote:

My grandfather fought the Germans in WWII.

Well my grandmother was interigated by the Gestapo. She's always been hooked on valium while mum was growning up. This was in France during the french occupation. While Grandmere was being interigated Mum (as a baby) was left alone at the time and she thinks it's what caused her fear of abandonment. She was always very clingy.

My english Grandfather also fought in the war. When he came back my dad hardly recognised him. There was a lot of friction.

Put it this way if some generals hadn't got so stupidly offended by what some prussian prince had to say and not started WW1 then my french grandma wouldn't have been interigated by the Gestapo, my mum wouldn't have been left on her own, and my English Granddad would not have had to risk his neck then come back to an unwelcoming household. We would all have been much better off.

darkdog · 07-07-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Nope. Aleser isn't from England. I am though.

My bad. Sorry about that. See the very end of my last post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

When people want to justify war they always bring up world war 2. Forgetting that World war 1 wasn't properly resolved in it's what caused world war 2. WW1 could easily have been resolved without fighting. It began over something totally trivial and stupid. The war in Afganistan and Iraq are NOT like WW2. Whilst Sadam Hussien was no angel he didn't have the power to act the way Hitler did so it's a totally differant set up and could very easily have been resolved without warfare.

I'm wasn't talking about WWI, Iraq, or Afghanistan. I didn't bring up WWII to justify any war in particular other than WWII. I brought it up to respond to Aleser's universal statement about war heroes being murderers who should go to jail. The problem with such broad, unqualified statements is it takes just one real-life example contradicting that statement to discredit it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Well my grandmother was interigated by the Gestapo. She's always been hooked on valium while mum was growning up. This was in France during the french occupation. While Grandmere was being interigated Mum (as a baby) was left alone at the time and she thinks it's what caused her fear of abandonment. She was always very clingy.

My english Grandfather also fought in the war. When he came back my dad hardly recognised him. There was a lot of friction.

Put it this way if some generals hadn't got so stupidly offended by what some prussian prince had to say and not started WW1 then my french grandma wouldn't have been interigated by the Gestapo, my mum wouldn't have been left on her own, and my English Granddad would not have had to risk his neck then come back to an unwelcoming household. We would all have been much better off.

I'm sorry to hear about all the hardships your family went through. The first half of the 19th century was no fun for Europe. I'm not trying to justify the silly things that caused WWI or led to Hitler's rise in Germany. However, by 1938, they had all happened and Europe had an evil, brutal, ambitious dictator to deal with. The only thing that mattered at that point was what to do about it. Chamberlain proved that peaceful negotiations wouldn't work with Hitler. The only two options left were to fight back against Hitler or surrender and let him take over Europe. Both of those options would result in much death and suffering. There simply was no way to avoid death and suffering. I was basically asking Aleser which option she would choose.

PuyoPiyo · 07-07-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

You know, i second that!

I sometimes tired of people who are so worrying about overpopulation.. I was like "relax, there is no reason to worry about.." I'm pretty sure there is many ways to reduce the population. Let scientists fix it!

Well, if it's the world's own problem is overpopulated - let's just put to end the lives of all people over the age of 75 and under the age of 5. That will help the problem but we also should to get ruin of homeless people and unwanted bastard children, too. Those people are hardly contributing to our society, right? Oh, you know, murder will continue to happen regardless of laws passed in attempt to prevent it. Same with the theft and terrorism, too. So, why not let's just remove those laws from the books, and let people murder and steal all they want, because it will reduce. I'm pretty sure it will help the problem anyway. < /sarcasm >

Oh, it's children's fault because they do cause the poverty. One solution for the overpopulation is cannibalism. Don't worry, any child is not blessing anymore. Mmm, oh babies! I particularly the raising of infants as food!
< /sarcastic >

Seriously, if they are worrying about it and why not they just can stand up and DO SOMETHING! Help scientists, probably? To worry is not solve anything but to do something will solve it in many ways. Yes, I'm agree with you, Puyo.

Like, to reduce the birth rate by creating a technical stuff.

Example -
periods six times per year and 50 percents chance to get pregnancy (or could be a little low than 50). How? to use speical non-toxic chemical, i donno. Just do something with a human body to improve the population. I'm not a sciectist but I expect someone create a something so new...

Remember I told you about my idea of slow aging?

PS- I'm sorry if this post is offended but I'm ranting a little here.. I'm also only talking to Puyo. ^_^

With you all the way!

There is MANY different ways to control the population, like reduce the criminals of drugs, reduce prices and legal age for cigarettes, limiting the numbers of children in the families, etc... War only kill the armies, not the civilians.

Btw, your post seems are not offensive to me

Your post is very great.

PuyoPiyo · 07-07-2007, 05:39 PM

If people think the war is the control of population, then I want to ask.

China, the present first world populated country in the world, have been working so hard to keep its overpopulation in control without the war, and some science already preview that China's population won't be much of different than present to 2050 while India's population are out of control dramatically goes to the first world populated country in 2050 surpassing China. How did China do that?

Russia are having the population decline problem today, they already lost 2 millions of people just in past 4 years, and the science already preview that Russia's population will go down from 140 million to 100 million in 2050. Why did Russia have so much of population decline problem?

Japan, the today 9th world populated country, has 127 million of people living there right now, and their population growth rate are at 0.00 and won't be any different at 2050. How did Japan's population stay the same from present to 2050?

If you answer those, you will find alot of ways to control the population more than just the war.

webexplorer · 07-07-2007, 05:58 PM

Well, any army in the world can kill people with any age. The armies have psychology problems dealing in the horror war.

I would rather to let criminals to do their drugs, and let them die so that we have a less population. For cigarettes, the sellers at the shops should be automatically shut down permanently because we all know that the cigarettes cause lung cancers for years. You should quit smoking today, not tomorrow!

Churches want more babies - Didn't you know that? The pope has no business to interfere our people.

It would be a good idea to control them by giving a special non-toxic chemical instead of an operation. Who is going to do it for us? Does a law allowing doctors or professional to give them the treatment? Do they have the rights? (i.e. The Bill of Rights.) .....sure, they are afraid to break the law.

webexplorer · 07-07-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

If people think the war is the control of population, then I want to ask.

China, the present first world populated country in the world, have been working so hard to keep its overpopulation in control without the war, and some science already preview that China's population won't be much of different than present to 2050 while India's population are out of control dramatically goes to the first world populated country in 2050 surpassing China. How did China do that?

This is not true. China does not allow the media (news) to be announced because it is a Communism country. India has the highest poor population because they have a lousy program that offers them to take a class about pills and condoms. It is not successful because they are so incredibly stupid. Poor people offspring poor babies, and they grow and still poorer. Rich people offspring rich babies, and they grow and still richer. That's the reality. That's simple. If you said that it is impossible, here is:

Whoopi Goldberg was a homeless, and she was on a welfare for a very long time. A rich man happened saw her on the street, and he offered her a job to be in a movie. That's how she is so successful. She changed it from being poor to being rich so she continues to be rich. Her babies become rich because of their mother. That is simple. You cannot change it unless you have plenty of money. If you are in the middle-class, then you are still the same that cannot be rich unless a person offers you for more money.

For wars, money issue is all about. Rich people are not really go in the war. It is almost fact.

How did you know about the Russia situation? Do you ever contact other people that you know from another country like Germany to get the proof or evidence if the story is true. Our media always twist the truth. The media always says bad things. It is not about Freedom of speech. You will get the idea what is going on from the news.

KarissaMann05 · 07-07-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

With you all the way!

There is MANY different ways to control the population, like reduce the criminals of drugs, reduce prices and legal age for cigarettes, limiting the numbers of children in the families, etc... War only kill the armies, not the civilians.

Btw, your post seems are not offensive to me

Your post is very great.

Awesome

PuyoPiyo · 07-07-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webexplorer

Well, any army in the world can kill people with any age. The armies have psychology problems dealing in the horror war.

Think about this. Government FORCE men go to war, I call this murder. I don't call the cigarettes, drugs, limiting babies, etc as murder.

I would rather to let criminals to do their drugs, and let them die so that we have a less population. For cigarettes, the sellers at the shops should be automatically shut down permanently because we all know that the cigarettes cause lung cancers for years. You should quit smoking today, not tomorrow!

First of all, I am very happy smoker and I don't need to quit right now. I want to smoke as my experience part of my life and I am not ready to quit yet, I want the FUN, not fearing of reality. I only live once and I want to pick up many varies of experiences as much as I can, that's why I travel too much, spending many money, etc. I believe that people who never try smoke, never try drink, never go different countries, never go on airplanes, never try many things are EXTREMELY boring. So let me having fun time which God gave me, the life.

And about the drugs, how about legal them? It would be crazy haha!

Churches want more babies - Didn't you know that? The pope has no business to interfere our people.

It's up to them, I don't care if they want babies or not.

It would be a good idea to control them by giving a special non-toxic chemical instead of an operation. Who is going to do it for us? Does a law allowing doctors or professional to give them the treatment? Do they have the rights? (i.e. The Bill of Rights.) .....sure, they are afraid to break the law.

I have no idea what to say about this one.. The doctor treatments like surgery, medical, etc. are people's decision, and it's their own business, not governments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by webexplorer

This is not true. China does not allow the media (news) to be announced because it is a Communism country. India has the highest poor population because they have a lousy program that offers them to take a class about pills and condoms. It is not successful because they are so incredibly stupid. Poor people offspring poor babies, and they grow and still poorer. Rich people offspring rich babies, and they grow and still richer. That's the reality. That's simple. If you said that it is impossible, here is:

As for China, what will you tell me about why they limited people to have only one baby per person?

And as for India, it does not matter how they take care of the people or people take care of their babies, what REALLY matter is the population. India will have very seriously overpopulation problem compare to China in the future. China is improving its own, that is why China became a communist because they have to, period. If they don't, then the people will go out of control. Also China have very highest possible to be the first world ecomonic surpassing USA and Japan. China did alot of works to make its better country. India don't do much good works for its own country, that's why it have overpopulation, sickness people, poor people, etc.

Whoopi Goldberg was a homeless, and she was on a welfare for a very long time. A rich man happened saw her on the street, and he offered her a job to be in a movie. That's how she is so successful. She changed it from being poor to being rich so she continues to be rich. Her babies become rich because of their mother. That is simple. You cannot change it unless you have plenty of money. If you are in the middle-class, then you are still the same that cannot be rich unless a person offers you for more money.

What if 100 people go for a rich man's help? Can he handle it? No. That is called overpopulation problem.

For wars, money issue is all about. Rich people are not really go in the war. It is almost fact.

Give me source please. My uncle is a rich man and he was drafted to the war in Afghanstan.

How did you know about the Russia situation? Do you ever contact other people that you know from another country like Germany to get the proof or evidence if the story is true. Our media always twist the truth. The media always says bad things. It is not about Freedom of speech. You will get the idea what is going on from the news.

About the Russia, fine. Here's the source.

Demography of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Russia have the decline problem because of drugs. Now you see my point about legalized drugs, including cigarettes and alcohol, that would be one of the "in case" if having the overpopulation problem. Drugs DO help the overpopulation problem.

PuyoPiyo · 07-07-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

Awesome

PuyoPiyo · 07-07-2007, 10:29 PM

Seems like no one are going to answer my questions so I am going to answer the question myself.

China, the present first world populated country in the world, have been working so hard to keep its overpopulation in control without the war, and some science already preview that China's population won't be much of different than present to 2050 while India's population are out of control dramatically goes to the first world populated country in 2050 surpassing China. How did China do that?

Because China are under the communist system and limited people to have one baby per person.

Russia are having the population decline problem today, they already lost 2 millions of people just in past 4 years, and the science already preview that Russia's population will go down from 140 million to 100 million in 2050. Why did Russia have so much of population decline problem?

This is the source.

Demography of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yupp it's because of the drugs.

Japan, the today 9th world populated country, has 127 million of people living there right now, and their population growth rate are at 0.00 and won't be any different at 2050. How did Japan's population stay the same from present to 2050?

It's because Japan's job system kept women busy from having the children or get in relationship with other men, and kept men busy from get in relationship with women. Japan also have too many single adults and are one of the highest elders percentage, that applies to Italy too.

ejcjs - The Dilemma Posed by Japan's Population Decline

Calphool · 07-07-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

What's your thought that NO WAR will lead?

To me, I could think this issues would cause:

- Great overcrowd population
- more pollution
- too much mate to choice, haha.

That's why there is war that necessary to be part of social to make more balance on life and everything else.

War has no benefit that could not be accomplished in some other way. Carl Von Clausewitz' famous quote: "War is merely the continuation of politics" is absolutely right. That's why political institutions like the United Nations, as flawed as they may be, are very important. When they work properly, they give the countries of the world a place to continue a political struggle without resorting immediately to war. Sometimes this prevents war, sometimes it doesn't.

What's really sad about war is how wasteful it is in so many ways. Let's just talk about one of those ways, maybe the least important one -- money. If you live in the United States, over 50% of your income tax dollars are being spent right now to pay for military spending (either paying debt on past military spending, or paying for current expenses in Afghanastan, Iraq, and elsewhere). That means that collectively we're spending roughly 1.2 TRILLION dollars per year on all military spending (Federal outlays are at roughly 2.5 trillion per year). Since the government's annual income tax revenue actually only equals about 1.2 trillion in the first place, and everything else is deficit spending, we're effectively spending our ENTIRE annual tax revenue on military spending right now, and paying for everything else on credit. Friends, our priorities are goofed up.

For some reason, we can always find enough money to kill people, but we struggle to find enough money to help people. There's a great movie that pretty much lays all this stuff out:

Why We Fight (2005)

PuyoPiyo · 07-07-2007, 10:49 PM

Good post, Calphool! Very true... That's why we have lousy ecomonic right now... Bush's fault...

Reba · 07-07-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

...My uncle is a rich man and he was drafted to the war in Afghanstan...

The USA doesn't draft anyone into the military for the war in Afghanistan. The draft ended in 1973.

PuyoPiyo · 07-07-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

The USA doesn't draft anyone into the military for the war in Afghanistan. The draft ended in 1973.

Really? That's what my uncle told me.. Maybe he doesn't want the family to know that he actually want to be army...

And I forgot to tell, he do not fight in the war, he is a supplier army and help Afghanstan people to have the buildings for their schools and hostipals, but still, the Afghanstan armies was trying to shoot his teams and camps..

webexplorer · 07-07-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Think about this. Government FORCE men go to war, I call this murder. I don't call the cigarettes, drugs, limiting babies, etc as murder.

Yes, it is a "mass" murder... I agreed with you.

Quote:

First of all, I am very happy smoker and I don't need to quit right now.

Gee. I wish that you quit smoking. My young grandmother died from throat cancer. My friend also died from lung cancer when he was about 24 years old. They had a good health and all of suddenly they became ill very fast. I am still

07-07-2007, 05:39 PM	#40 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo My Property!! >:( Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fourth Plain Village WA Posts: 5,182	If people think the war is the control of population, then I want to ask. China, the present first world populated country in the world, have been working so hard to keep its overpopulation in control without the war, and some science already preview that China's population won't be much of different than present to 2050 while India's population are out of control dramatically goes to the first world populated country in 2050 surpassing China. How did China do that? Russia are having the population decline problem today, they already lost 2 millions of people just in past 4 years, and the science already preview that Russia's population will go down from 140 million to 100 million in 2050. Why did Russia have so much of population decline problem? Japan, the today 9th world populated country, has 127 million of people living there right now, and their population growth rate are at 0.00 and won't be any different at 2050. How did Japan's population stay the same from present to 2050? If you answer those, you will find alot of ways to control the population more than just the war. __________________ Note: Not credit by myself.

07-07-2007, 10:29 PM	#46 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo My Property!! >:( Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fourth Plain Village WA Posts: 5,182	Seems like no one are going to answer my questions so I am going to answer the question myself. China, the present first world populated country in the world, have been working so hard to keep its overpopulation in control without the war, and some science already preview that China's population won't be much of different than present to 2050 while India's population are out of control dramatically goes to the first world populated country in 2050 surpassing China. How did China do that? Because China are under the communist system and limited people to have one baby per person. Russia are having the population decline problem today, they already lost 2 millions of people just in past 4 years, and the science already preview that Russia's population will go down from 140 million to 100 million in 2050. Why did Russia have so much of population decline problem? This is the source. Demography of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Yupp it's because of the drugs. Japan, the today 9th world populated country, has 127 million of people living there right now, and their population growth rate are at 0.00 and won't be any different at 2050. How did Japan's population stay the same from present to 2050? It's because Japan's job system kept women busy from having the children or get in relationship with other men, and kept men busy from get in relationship with women. Japan also have too many single adults and are one of the highest elders percentage, that applies to Italy too. ejcjs - The Dilemma Posed by Japan's Population Decline __________________ Note: Not credit by myself.

07-07-2007, 10:49 PM	#48 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo My Property!! >:( Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fourth Plain Village WA Posts: 5,182	Good post, Calphool! Very true... That's why we have lousy ecomonic right now... Bush's fault... __________________ Note: Not credit by myself.

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07-06-2007, 11:11 PM	#35 (permalink)
webexplorer I'm listening to everyone Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New England Posts: 3,474	Don't you think that someday someone will put some watches on people's wrist so that the person decides to pick some people and press a red button to shut down their system due overpopulation without having a war? Isn't that weirdo?

07-07-2007, 05:58 PM	#41 (permalink)
webexplorer I'm listening to everyone Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New England Posts: 3,474	Well, any army in the world can kill people with any age. The armies have psychology problems dealing in the horror war. I would rather to let criminals to do their drugs, and let them die so that we have a less population. For cigarettes, the sellers at the shops should be automatically shut down permanently because we all know that the cigarettes cause lung cancers for years. You should quit smoking today, not tomorrow! Churches want more babies - Didn't you know that? The pope has no business to interfere our people. It would be a good idea to control them by giving a special non-toxic chemical instead of an operation. Who is going to do it for us? Does a law allowing doctors or professional to give them the treatment? Do they have the rights? (i.e. The Bill of Rights.) .....sure, they are afraid to break the law.