Confederate Flag - Page 8

Byrdie714 · 06-10-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie77

To answer your question - While it may seemingly to be advocated as a racism in your view. In my view it isn't racism. It is part of heritage. I know the Southern Cross is heavily represented or taken as a form of racism but there are a lot of other people who would view it as a heritage or a symbol of different purposes. This serves as a purpose of this thread to discuss about the same issues that can either be considered racism or not.

I am aware a lot of people use it as a symbol for racism. In the beginning, it wasn't for racism. It was to represent the 11 southern states that seceded from the Union. It is the same purpose for having the US Flag that represents this country with 50 stars and 13 stripes on it. Let's see, If the US Flag was represented for something else, would it make any difference or not? I'd like to hear this out.

No it wasn't used for racism. It was used for slavery.

Sorry but wasn't Kentucky a southern state as well? If so--isn't that clouding your argument that you have put forth in the above post?

Also in the highlighted section, jiro120 pointed out that there are other ways to show off one's southern heritage and pride, instead of flaming with the dixie flag.

I show off my Northwest heritage via foods, arts, and literature. No flag because bottom line--I'm an American first, Washingtonian second.

Not Southerner first, American second. Because that is b.s.

***Jolie77*** · 06-10-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

No it wasn't used for racism. It was used for slavery.

Sorry but wasn't Kentucky a southern state as well? If so--isn't that clouding your argument that you have put forth in the above post?

Also in the highlighted section, jiro120 pointed out that there are other ways to show off one's southern heritage and pride, instead of flaming with the dixie flag.

I show off my Northwest heritage via foods, arts, and literature. No flag because bottom line--I'm an American first, Washingtonian second.

Not Southerner first, American second. Because that is b.s.

Actually, If you had to check up with the history, You'd have known that Kentucky is not exactly a southern state. Kentucky was in the middle of being in between of Northern and Southern states. It was considered as a border state. The state was divided itself as well.

You're right, there are different ways to represent one's heritage by using different methodology. I was only saying that the flag can be used in different way rather than having to abuse it otherwise.

jenni-m · 06-10-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Name a racist/pro-slavery group that uses a flag with 13 stars on it today that you have displayed?

There isn't.

Which is beside the point. The point was, would we hate on our OWN flag as much as the Confederate one, if they DID use it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

The Dixie flag has a lot of racist/ pro-slavery groups tied to it. That is why there are 500 extremist groups that uses it to represent themselves.

And that's the flags fault?

Edit:
And by the way...
I see stuff like this popping up: "I wouldn't fly this flag out of respect for so and so."
Well, that is great. I admire that. But everyone else is not you.

And I am dead against hate, and racism, and slavery. I am also against overboard censorship. I see a WHOLE LOT of things that bother me, but I don't complain about them most of the time, because it does no good... people would probably think I was a fundi nutcase if I did anyway.

I understand that the Confederate flag is used by hate groups... but I know well enough that plenty of other people just simply like it or identify with it, for whatever their reason, and see no problem with them displaying the flag or having it on a license plate or a sticker.

Banjo · 06-10-2008, 09:09 PM

Just a question...

It's a well-known fact that there are a lot of stanch Republican supporters within the southern states. However, I have noticed that some of them do not think too highly of Abraham Lincoln. Some even went as far to call him a tyrant.

How can they be Republicans if they see Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant considering the fact that he co-founded the Republican party?

Hmm. That's quite a twist.

jenni-m · 06-10-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Just a question...

It's a well-known fact that there are a lot of stanch Republican supporters within the southern states. However, I have noticed that some of them do not think too highly of Abraham Lincoln. Some even went as far to call him a tyrant.

How can they be Republicans if they see Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant considering the fact that he co-founded the Republican party?

Hmm. That's quite a twist.

Perhaps they had a vision of a different republic, I'm not sure.
I guess that would be similar to me being red-green, but not liking Marx (or not being really leftist, either).

People may proceed to hate on me, now that I've mentioned socialism. I don't mind. I'm somewhat anarchist, too, so there's another thing for you.

Reba · 06-10-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

We collect flags from different countries where we visited to and also German and EU flag.

We have EU sticker on our cars which is good enough.

I didn't mean just you, but all Germans.

That is, German people don't fly the EU flag with or above the German flag, and the EU flag doesn't fly above the German flag on government buildings. The German national flag is still the supreme official flag of Germany.

Reba · 06-10-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I already explain the difference between illegal and banned in my respone to Jenni-m's post.

It's an illegal to use Nazi flag to wave to the public and legal to collect Nazi things in the house.

If it's really banned which mean that all Nazi things have to burnt up and make sure no Nazi things in our house - Nazi things forbidden around Germany. That's why banned is not consider because some people are allow to collect or buy Nazi things from their generation... Some Germans went to London to buy Nazi things as their collection.

I was confused because in American English, banned and illegal usually mean the same thing; something that is prohibited or forbidden by law.

Why do Germans want to buy or collect Nazi things? I thought they wanted to forget their ugly Nazi history?

Liebling:-))) · 06-11-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

Confederacy is still America.

But Abraham Lincoln used American flag, not Confederacy flag... Why?

Liebling:-))) · 06-11-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieOverGA

When I was speaking of Freedom and Equality, I was NOT relating to the confederacy flag AT ALL. Once again, you jumped to conclusion. I was speaking of today's world.

Freedom does cost money. Look around us... everything is expensive and prices are continuing to go up and its a bitch to find a good paying job these days to be able to afford all the luxuries.

Equality... come on Im not speaking of slavery, you idiot. In many areas across the USA in today's world, people discriminate the deaf, blind, and the handicapped. Many people across the USA are racist... mexicans hate black, black hate mexicans, some whites hate black, a lot of black hate whites, southerns hate yankees, yankees hate southerns. A lot of true americans hate foreign people... especically the people we are in war with right now.

We americans all have equal rights but the system is corrupted in different areas all across america depending on the location. How many of you got turned down for jobs just because you are hearing impaired?? Im sure a lot of us did, including myself.

America is not perfect and it never will be. There is way too much shit to straighten up. Thats why it would be best if people would be who they want to be and leave other people alone.

Respect others as you want them to respect you back. Fuck with them, of course you would expect them to fuck with you back.

I take pride to believe what I believe in, so let it be.
Im sure you believe in things that I do not support, but it wont bother me at all because I am not you and I respect you for who you are.

We can still be friends even though we both have different beliefs... I respect your beliefs, and you respect my beliefs and its all cool.

I am who I am.

Okay, I respect your view but I would like to have a question for you about American flag and want to know your view on Abraham Lincoln's flag (American flag). What's about American flag? Why you prefer conferderate flag over American flag? Why Abraham Lincoln use American flag, not confederate flag? I am not here to argue with you but just want to know your view on those American flag.

Cheri · 06-11-2008, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

But Abraham Lincoln used American flag, not Confederacy flag... Why?

I think it is because the American flag represents the equally of everyone, but not the Confederate flag, keep in mind it's a symbol of the Southern Heritage, it doesn't represents everyone.

Liebling:-))) · 06-11-2008, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I didn't mean just you, but all Germans.

That is, German people don't fly the EU flag with or above the German flag, and the EU flag doesn't fly above the German flag on government buildings. The German national flag is still the supreme official flag of Germany.

Yes, German and EU flags fly on government buildings in different states around Germany.

Yes, Germans use German flags on their cars accord Europe scoocer cup or world cup. Yes, they color German symbol on their hair, face or clothes...

German symbols sticker, flags, etc are everywhere... when they don't have to wave the flags or make too extreme when they already have stickers or small flags on their cars or t-shirt with german symbol on it which is good enough.

Liebling:-))) · 06-11-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I was confused because in American English, banned and illegal usually mean the same thing; something that is prohibited or forbidden by law.

Why do Germans want to buy or collect Nazi things? I thought they wanted to forget their ugly Nazi history?

Is it forbid to collect Nazi things as history? I see nothing wrong if they collect Nazi things from their father or Grandfather... It doesn't mean that they are bad when they consider it as history and pass this things to their children and want them aware about Nazi's history. My hubby do have some Nazi things from his step-Grandfather - it doesn't mean that my hubby is a bad person.

There're some bad people who buy Nazi things and be Nazi pride because they are against foriegn immagrates...

Illegal mean is disobey the law... If I ignore the law for wave Nazi flag to the public which mean I disobey the law. It's illegal.

For Nazi surivors yes, they want to forget Nazi history and move on... yes, they accept the fact that Nazi belongs history, everyone want to...

Banned mean is NO Nazi forbidden in Germany... no Nazi in house... no Nazi collecting... or NO Nazi muesums in Germany...

Liebling:-))) · 06-11-2008, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

I think it is because the American flag represents the equally of everyone, but not the Confederate flag, keep in mind it's a symbol of the Southern Heritage, it doesn't represents everyone.

This is your opinion.

Foxrac · 06-11-2008, 10:20 AM

Oh well, most southerners are very patriot to USA and more true American.

Confederate flag is just used for southern heritage and southern pride, it shows how they are honor to heritage and being proud to be live in south, however this flag has nothing to interfere with US flag, both of them are different.

Dixie is just use confederate flag as southern heritage and he has nothing against on US flag until some ADers are attack on him.

Byrdie714 · 06-11-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenni-m

Which is beside the point. The point was, would we hate on our OWN flag as much as the Confederate one, if they DID use it?

And that's the flags fault?

Edit:
And by the way...
I see stuff like this popping up: "I wouldn't fly this flag out of respect for so and so."
Well, that is great. I admire that. But everyone else is not you.

And I am dead against hate, and racism, and slavery. I am also against overboard censorship. I see a WHOLE LOT of things that bother me, but I don't complain about them most of the time, because it does no good... people would probably think I was a fundi nutcase if I did anyway.

I understand that the Confederate flag is used by hate groups... but I know well enough that plenty of other people just simply like it or identify with it, for whatever their reason, and see no problem with them displaying the flag or having it on a license plate or a sticker.

I'll grant you that and yet you need to understand that when meeting people for the first time and seeing these stickers and such.

People aren't going to be respectful towards them.

Case in point: a guy went for an interview and showed up in his truck with a dixie sticker on it. The interview went well and the guy was about to be hired depending if he passed the drug test. The manager of the store and the guy went out side and the manager sees the sticker.

The guy passed the drug test but wasn't hired for the job due to the dixie sticker because of perception from management.

The guy applied for many jobs and wasn't hired until 7 months later when he removed the dixie sticker....

Byrdie714 · 06-11-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

But Abraham Lincoln used American flag, not Confederacy flag... Why?

Because he was an American, not a Confederate.

Byrdie714 · 06-11-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Just a question...

It's a well-known fact that there are a lot of stanch Republican supporters within the southern states. However, I have noticed that some of them do not think too highly of Abraham Lincoln. Some even went as far to call him a tyrant.

How can they be Republicans if they see Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant considering the fact that he co-founded the Republican party?

Hmm. That's quite a twist.

Actually it's not.

It's politics as usual. Politics makes strangebedfellows.

Jiro · 06-11-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Case in point: a guy went for an interview and showed up in his truck with a dixie sticker on it. The interview went well and the guy was about to be hired depending if he passed the drug test. The manager of the store and the guy went out side and the manager sees the sticker.

The guy passed the drug test but wasn't hired for the job due to the dixie sticker because of perception from management.

The guy applied for many jobs and wasn't hired until 7 months later when he removed the dixie sticker....

haha I can imagine same for me if I wear Buddhism swastika necklace.

Byrdie714 · 06-11-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie77

Actually, If you had to check up with the history, You'd have known that Kentucky is not exactly a southern state. Kentucky was in the middle of being in between of Northern and Southern states. It was considered as a border state. The state was divided itself as well.

You're right, there are different ways to represent one's heritage by using different methodology. I was only saying that the flag can be used in different way rather than having to abuse it otherwise.

Byrdie714 · 06-11-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

haha I can imagine same for me if I wear Buddhism swastika necklace.

You would be crucified!

Jiro · 06-11-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

You would be crucified!

damn Nazi for making my religious symbol as a symbol of hate!!!!

***~SG~*** · 06-11-2008, 11:35 AM

Hey all,

This thread is going offtopic here.

Try to swing it back on topic to "Confederate Flag".

Reba · 06-11-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

But Abraham Lincoln used American flag, not Confederacy flag... Why?

Because Lincoln was President of the Union, not the Confederacy.

Reba · 06-11-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Is it forbid to collect Nazi things as history? I see nothing wrong if they collect Nazi things from their father or Grandfather... It doesn't mean that they are bad when they consider it as history and pass this things to their children and want them aware about Nazi's history. My hubby do have some Nazi things from his step-Grandfather - it doesn't mean that my hubby is a bad person.

There're some bad people who buy Nazi things and be Nazi pride because they are against foriegn immagrates...

Illegal mean is disobey the law... If I ignore the law for wave Nazi flag to the public which mean I disobey the law. It's illegal.

For Nazi surivors yes, they want to forget Nazi history and move on... yes, they accept the fact that Nazi belongs history, everyone want to...

Banned mean is NO Nazi forbidden in Germany... no Nazi in house... no Nazi collecting... or NO Nazi muesums in Germany...

We can say:

"I see nothing wrong if they collect Confederate things from their father or Grandfather... It doesn't mean that they are bad when they consider it as history and pass this things to their children and want them aware about Confederate history. My hubby do have some Confederate things from his step-Grandfather - it doesn't mean that my hubby is a bad person.

There're some bad people who buy

View Poll Results: What does Confederate Rebel Flag means to you?
A symbol of Civil War History	22	24.18%
A symbol of racist	24	26.37%
A symbol of Heritage (Civil War Veteran Generation)	40	43.96%
Others - please specify	5	5.49%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

06-11-2008, 10:20 AM	#224 (permalink)
Foxrac o_O Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 14,349	Oh well, most southerners are very patriot to USA and more true American. Confederate flag is just used for southern heritage and southern pride, it shows how they are honor to heritage and being proud to be live in south, however this flag has nothing to interfere with US flag, both of them are different. Dixie is just use confederate flag as southern heritage and he has nothing against on US flag until some ADers are attack on him. __________________ God bless America

06-11-2008, 11:35 AM	#232 (permalink)
*~SG~* Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 4,010	Hey all, This thread is going offtopic here. Try to swing it back on topic to "Confederate Flag". __________________

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06-10-2008, 09:09 PM	#214 (permalink)
Banjo Mr. Movie Guy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,129 Blog Entries: 1	Just a question... It's a well-known fact that there are a lot of stanch Republican supporters within the southern states. However, I have noticed that some of them do not think too highly of Abraham Lincoln. Some even went as far to call him a tyrant. How can they be Republicans if they see Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant considering the fact that he co-founded the Republican party? Hmm. That's quite a twist.