Liebling:-)))

Great Venting, GalaxyAngel!

That´s why I support women´s choice. They have my respect either they want to have abortion or adoption. It´s up to them because I know each woman is different.

Yes, I know and has to agree with you that adoptive parents are not alway good parents. It does the same with natural parents as well, that´s why I respect women´s choice with good reasons.

I would say that I am part of pro choice, too. Why? Because I support women´s choice for abortion or adoption with good reasons and AGAINST death penalty, war and abortion as a birth control.

Anyway, Don´t worry what pro-lifers said about abortion is murder, selfish, etc.

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Liebling:-)))

Whatever

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Definition:
1. operation to end pregnancy: an operation or other intervention to end a pregnancy by removing an embryo or fetus from the womb

abortion definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

You also used those word miscarriage as "spontaneous abortion" in previous posts, too because they are same word. Is it forbid to use those word abortion as "fetus/embryo removal" because they are same word?


Definition:

medicine
Same as miscarriage (sense 1)

spontaneous abortion definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

You use abortion as killing a fetus/embryo is your opinion.

I use those word abortion as a fetus/embryo removal is a fact.

This is women´s choice, not you, me and anyone. They have good reason to decide either they want to abort or give their baby up for adoption. Like what I say before that each woman is different. It doesn´t mean that they have selfish choice because they doesn´t feel ready to be responsible parent to raise a child.

I answered your questions.. .So?

Yes I would stop to label abusive parents as selfish and murder who make child suffer to death if pro-lifer stop to label mother´s abortion choice as selfish, murder, etc.

Abortion isn't just about if the fetus is alive or not. It's about a womans choice.

There is a difference between an unborn fetus and a normal child who is alive. The fetus is not a full human being but depend on mother for everything.

Yes, but we use our good judgement to know what and how they did right or wrong, don´t we?

Did the baby ask to suffer starve or abuse to death by their parents?

I did stated "The heavy pregnant woman " which mean is after 20 weeks or more (partial birth) is an unborn baby. To 12 weeks is a fetus.

"kill unborn baby" mean is after 12 weeks and more (partial birth) because they have full human being.

I only make sure which fetus or normal child you are referring to because your question is "And if they aren't, do what? Kill them? " which fetus or normal child who is alive?



Good, then leave women´s choice alone.


What about child abuse... should we let child suffer to death by starvation and abuse by abusive parents then?

Which worst? fetus removal or child abuse to death?

If woman decide for adoption then is her choice.
If woman decide for fetus removal is her choice.

They have good reason to make different decision. I do not consider their decision as murder and selfish.




Are you label me as closed minded... wow

Of course you are the one who are closed minded for deny the difference between fetus removal and normal child who is alive are being abuse to death. You refused to see the difference but still label mother´s choice for abortion as selfish, murder, etc. Who closed minded... Of course YOU!!!! You has no respect for women´s choice with good reasons all what you keep on saying... abortion - kill the baby.. .kill the baby... kill the baby... to ignore how poor normal child suffers at real life... Is it fair to force a child to suffer like this? I mother´s choice when she know she is not fit mother to raise a child and know she will be bad mother and make her decision. It´s her choice either abortion or adoption, not you. Her choice is NONE OF your business. Stop label mother´s choice as selfish and murder and go and consider poor children who suffers starvation and abuse in the world...

Did I say all?

Please don´t make a false assumption. I explained IF mother force to raise a child when she do not feel ready to be as responsible mother then my answer is yes.

I hope the picture help you to understand what birth control is about.
http://z.about.com/d/contraception/1...rolMethods.JPG Got it? If you can´t understand then I can´t help you.

Some woman consider abortion as a birth control and don´t bother to use form of birth controls since we have many form of birth control to protect to have baby except abortion. I do not consider abortion as a birth control like what they abort dozen of times. I consider abortion for good reasons, not birth control.



Yes, it´s truth that child abuse to death is the mainly worst because the children are alive. So? do you mean that abortion is mainly worst than child abuse to death or what?


wow, You show yourself is an ignorant.

I repeat my answer... I showed the difference because pro-lifer label mother´s abortion choice as selfish, murder etc... If you don´t want to see it then I can´t help you.

Who raise a child?
Who is responsible for a child?
Which parent, a child live with?

Mother has the right to decide what she want or not.

If mother demand child support then is her choice then the law help her to get a guy to pay via monthly wage.


Their loss. Mainly important is mother and child are happy.. .why should they worry about deadbeat dads for and create stress/hassle when they have no money, etc. etc.


Yeah if mother demand...

Whatever

You changed and denied my post that some guys want to keep baby but their girlfriend decide to abort or adoption.

Yes, the life, we get stress everyday like that but we positive our stress which is mainly important.

Sure, we have different law about visit rights and child support but it´s up to divorced parents only if they agree without complication for the judge. If too complication, then judge decide.

There´re no deny but respect mother´s choice, period. It´s her who raise a child and responsible for a child. If she demand child support then is her right. If she don´t want then I can´t do anything to force her to demand her right. Of course I receive cons/pros from them and understand where they come from. Like what I said before that each woman is different. You can´t expect all women are same.

All what I say is Taxpayer is Taxpayer

Is taxpayer not same or what?

See above

Yes, I know. I am asking what if they have no money? I know they are selfish and bastard and make feeble excuse... blah blah blah... too stress and hassle to burden mother and child´s shoulder. All what I say is their LOSS... The law cannot do anything when they have no money or no work... Have you any suggestion on this?


Yes I know.

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KarissaMann05

Hi two of you guys.

I don't mean to invovle with you..

I think you should just let the subject go, because I can tell it gets heat up here.

Some of your posts are actually offending and upsetting me a bit, same with GlaxayAngel's feeling about pro-lifers' comments here.

I don't want to see some (too) upset ADers can post a wrath comment toward each other. But, I think it's my fault a little because I brought an other thread about anti-adoption. But, I think it would be nice to see you guys cool down, it would effect ADers cool down and back off.

How's about that? Let the subject go and move on, can you?

Just thought.

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Maria

Oh, wow - what a long debate!

Well, as for myself, I don't believe in abortion. I support " life " because, it is a gift of love.

And, also I think it is very wrong for a woman to abort her unborn fetus. I believe that the unborn fetus CAN feel the pain if, a doctor abort this unborn fetus. Don't tell me that this unborn fetus don't feel the pain.

Of course, it is an individual's choice and I can't make a decision for a woman who wants to end her pregnancy through an abortion. It's what life a woman makes it.

Reba

OK, will do.

Yesterday would have been the third birthday of a precious little girl who meant a lot to me. Thinking about her last night reminded me that time spent in pissing contests is a waste of time.

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Cheri

I'm sorry but since you're my best friend GalaxyAngel, I hope my disagreeing with you does not effect the friendship that we have.

You cannot tell us we have no right to have our say to those who support pro-choice. Pro-Lifers are here to represent the life of both the mothers and babies. Women are being killed by safe abortion if you aren't aware of that so are babies who are not wanted.

Liebling, Let's not forget that embryos and fetuses are equally human. Why? because inside the mother's womb there's a growing fetus with fingers, toes and a heartbeat.

If it's the duty of the American government to protect the rights of the Americans what about the rights of the innocent unborn babies? Those pro-choice don't mourns over aborted babies (innocent and helpless human embryos and fetuses) there's no funerals are held for them; they have no graves being held for them either, they're in a trash cans. You support the right of women to have abortions, What does that make you? murders too.

You pro-choice people don't support abuse, neglect on children and babies that are living on earth, but you support killing babies in mothers wombs? something doesn't seem right with me here.

Pro-lifers don't believe in violence such as abuse, murdering, on all children and babies including the ones in the mothers wombs.

See the differences??

Ask yourself this question while you're pregnant, do you feel the compassion and love for your unborn child while growing inside your womb, would you want to aborted it?

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Cheri

You support abortion as a form of birth control? I would say a form of birth control would be not having sex if one wishes not to be pregnant or use a method of birth control to prevent pregnancies.

If you support women choice to have an abortion that means you also support having those babies being put in trash bags, and thrown in dumpsters.

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Maria

Not just in a trash cans, but in a tiolet, too.

Cheri

Abortion clinics do that?

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]No, I am AGAINST it totally...

See my post carefully...

If they want to have sex then use right birth control like that http://z.about.com/d/contraception/1...rolMethods.JPG, not use abortion as birth control. A lot of women in Russia use abortion as a birth control. They abort dozen of times.

I personally never do that but women´s choice with good reasons have my respect as long as they do not consider abortion as form of birth control.

I do not beleive they throw fetus to trash bag but use them as science.

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Liebling:-)))

for post here. Yes I can understand.

I am try to be neutral and respect anyone´s choice and has to against when anyone label women´s choice negative, no matter either I personally am not for it or not but accept the fact that each woman has different choice for their reasons.

Cheri, I will explain part of your post#637 when I am back from fitness studio couple of hours later.

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Maria

Yep. When they aborted my first unborn fetus at 11 weeks pregnant, I asked one of the nurses about this unborn fetus and what they do with it. She said it will go in the tiolet and flushed away. I was horrified when she told me this because, it seems to me that they have NO feelings when they throw this precious " life " away.

Maria

Reba :

I have a question I would like to ask you:

I am wonderin' if, the blood can be heard ( cries ) when the abortion began to rip the unborn fetus' body apart ?

Cheri

Oh I get it now I thought you were speaking of being against the death penalty only, I got confused.


Are you saying my life experiences is based on a lie? I witness it myself when I was in the abortion clinic. they did put a garbage bag under my butt while on the operation table, and the fetus dropped right in there and then was carried out, I did asked where that was going, I was told it was going to the dumpster.

I pulled up some links that states where the fetus goes:

all unborn children who were aborted and disposed of in dumpsters

Abortion Torture Methods (have some pictures of trash cans where all the fetus goes <warning for those who cannot stand the sight of blood>
"The Truth"
Several bags were marked with the name of the aborted baby's mother, her age, the gestational age of the fetal child, the date of the abortion and a number

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Reba

Here is one website that includes descriptions of various kinds of abortions, at various stages of pregnancy.

Abortion Education @ abortioneducation.com: What Happens During an Abortion?

In the bar on the left of that page, click "What Actually Happens When Baby is Aborted", and then follow the links on each page to each trimester.

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Reba

The "clinics" also sell the body parts.

See order forms for baby body parts in PDF format:

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...bodyparts1.pdf

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...bodyparts2.pdf

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...bodyparts3.pdf

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...bodyparts4.pdf

Abortion is a big business. Follow the money.

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Angel

Label? where did I label anyone who had an abortion? all I did was provide the facts ..

Murder? why? because the fetus’s heart has already begun to beat by the time the mother misses her period and when women chooses to have sex without protection then they're taking the risks even if the pregnancy is unwanted or unplanned. It's their responsibility and they must be willing to deal with the consequences, and while I do agree that women should have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies but unfortunately what about the fetus? does this mean another human being who has no say in this matter? and ignoring the fact that there are two bodies that are involved, the mother's and the baby's..

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Angel

This breaks my heart...

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Angel

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Reba

Yes, it's awful how a baby is just sold for parts, like an auto junk yard.

It also proves that the so-called "fetus" has a human brain, eyes, legs, etc.

The abortionist tells the pregnant woman, oh, don't worry, it's not a baby, it's just a fetus. But that same abortionist tells the buyer, oh, yes, we can sell you human body parts. They are so two-faced!

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Angel

Exactly and one of the nurse at the abortion clinic told my old high school friend that it is not a baby it's just a small little pea..

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webexplorer

I understand this problem. These letters are disgusted as I am not pleased to read them. At first, it was awful for me to think about the letters. I finally realized that how important for our babies survival what they need such as a new piece of lung replacement, heart, vessel, eye, and some parts because these babies died in the hospital. Their parents' choice whether they want to donate it to a research lab. We really cannot talk about bias. Wouldn't you be happy that your baby able to see something with his new eye? That's what it makes me happy that he can see as it is important for him to have a normal life.

The only thing that bothers me is both researcher buyers and medical sellers are greedy for money. A seller buys one little arm that could be about $50,000 dollars. It is legal for most states as long as they have a research/medical license. My opinion is that a deliver baby fee should be waived if the baby does not make it. Isn't that sound right to you?

Reba

How bizarre!

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Reba

The parts that abortionists sell are NOT used for transplants into living babies. They are used for research and commercial purposes. I suspect the aborted babies' mothers don't even know that the parts are being sold.

Organs that are for transplant are gotten from babies who die after birth, and are NOT SOLD. They are given freely as a gift of life from a donor family.

Those are two totally different situations.

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Maria

And, even I still don't understand why they charge the mothers who throw her newborn babies in the dumpsters elsewhere and at the same time, the abortion clinics do their job on the operation table and dump the newborn babies that the mothers who don't want to keep ?

Gee - I find this all ridiculous. It just makes no sense to me.

Maria

I know. It hurts me even more when a nurse told me about it. I was soo pissed. No one ever told me all about it until I asked.

Maria

Just read it - Ok, so that means this unborn fetus will scream, because of its heart beat is developed and the unborn fetus CAN feel the pain when the vacuum pulled its body parts apart. I HATE to even THINK about it, because it is soo cruel and the word pops up sayin' " murder ". I feel soo sorry for the unborn fetuses who can't defend themselves inside the mothers' wombs.

Reba

You're right.

Have you heard of the Groningen Protocol? It's about euthanizing newborns (that's the next step):

the evangelical outpost: The Groningen Protocol:<br>Infant Euthanasia and the Substance View of Personhood

Paediatricians call for nationwide protocol for the ending of life of unbearably and incureably suffering newborns

Death by Committee

NEJM -- The Groningen Protocol -- Euthanasia in Severely Ill Newborns

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Reba

This will chill your blood:

read more: Taking Life: Humans, by Peter Singer

It gets worse.

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