guido

A friend, a black person, at work has been attempting to tell me of the myth of Caucus Mountain, in which he claims that the white race descended from albino Africans who were banished away to the Caucus Mountains 8000 years ago. He says within the 309 years that these albinos inhabited these caves, they reverted to primate characteristics, eating raw flesh, resorting to beastiality and rape. Its his belief that this is where the Caucasian race originated. I've asked him several times to back up his story with proof and sources, and he hasn't been able to. I've explained to him the story has flaws, both scientifically and historically. Does anyone know of this supposed myth where I can educate myself on the subject and prepare for proper rebuttal? I've attempted locating sources, but its nearly impossible on Google, Yahoo, or Wikipedia. All I can come up with are a few mentions on message boards, here and there. Help?

Deafness

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Teresh

Albinism is autosomal recessive as I recall. Albino individuals can only have albino children.

For this myth to be true, albino people would have to have non-albino children as the caucasian race (like all others) does not have problems with melanin production in their skin.

Albino people having non-albino children would require a reverse mutation, which is impossible under the theory of evolution as that would cause them to occupy a niche tha was already occupied.

guido

Well, according to my friend, these albinos would come down from the mountains from time to time to rape and pillage, interbreeding with other tribes.

As for the evolution part. To believe this, we would have to believe these albinos not only developed pigment while in these caves, but their bone structure evolved, and they were able to repopulate at an alarming rate after their reemergance. It's pretty far-fetched.

sillycat

Ummm....maybe those albinos are living in the center of the earth now.

Teresh

It would also require us to accept another thing which doesn't make sense--That albino people are white.

Black albinos are still black, even if they appear to have light skin. If they had a child with the "other tribes" who according to your friend were black, the child would be black (unless the non-albino mate had one gene for albinism, in which case the child could be black or black abino with a 50/50 chance either way).

Being albino does not change your race, it only changes the color of your skin.

ismi

Don't know if it's the same, but I know Nation of Islam had a myth that white people were "created" something like 6000 years ago by an evil black scientist. Wikipedia's page on Malcolm X mentions it, I think, in the context of his trip to Mecca and his realization that he had brothers "of all colors" (at which point he decided, based on ideologies like that one, to leave NoI), but you could probably find it elsewhere as well.

guido

You're thinking of the Dr Yacub myth. It's funny how all Afrocentric origin theories involve the degradation of the white race.

I was talking to the same friend tonight, and we went deeper into discussion. As it turns out, he is convinced that the white race is responsible for everything evil in the world. I posed the question "If there was a button that you could press that would erase white people's entire existance, would you press it?" I then explained the consequences, and he still said yes. Wow.

BhamJoel

I don't believe I'd be calling this guy my "friend". My advice is to stay away from this brainwashed extremist and warn others who interact with him. If he is a co-worker, your superior should be made aware of his statements to you. If he hates white people, he probably hates others - gays, latinos, etc. At the very least, your employer may want to consider some "diversity sensitivity" training. The point I'm getting at is your arguments alone will not change this lunatic's world view. Odds are they will never change.

guido

The friend in question, is pretty harmless, just misguided by hate. He's not really a hostile person at all. In fact, I get along with him better than anybody else where I work. He no longer works in the same area, so I don't get to talk with him as much. Don't mistake him for an idiot, though. He's a great rational thinker, but he's misguided on many things. Although he might hate the white race, he's not one to act on that hate. You are correct in your assumption that he is a homophobe. I've told him before he'll likely grow out of his hate. What's really sad is he has so much potential to do some good, but he wastes it on this dead end job. I can't count how many times I've told him to go to college.

BhamJoel

I understand and can appreciate where you are coming from. I have several friends who are of the utmost intelligence, yet to some degree, each of them routinely thinks and/or acts irrationally in various ways. I suppose we all do at times. However, NO ONE (mis)guided by hate is harmless. Also, harmless is a relative term. We don't need your friend to commit a violent act for him to be harmful. His hate sounds to be primarily self-hate and he expresses it mainly by harming himself (dead-end job, etc). However, even self-hate spews onto those around the self-hater. Whether it's a negative attitude/energy you can feel from them that makes you uncomfortable, or verbal or physical violence, make no mistake: those with hate in their heart are never harmless. However, I would take back my earlier advice and say it is a good thing for HIM to be around you. It sounds like you were compassionate and tried to help him, which are some things it sounds like he missed out on somewhere along the line.

majadubois

I would really hate to see one rely on random posts of information on a discussion board...and actually come to a definitive conclusion based on a few opinions.

In 2006, I think is should be common knowledge the oldest human remains were found in Africa. So with that basic knowledge, the next logical question would be to question how & when other races came into existence.

It has been documented by accredited medical studies that there was a mutation in DNA that resulted in a people without skin pigmentation.
I personally don't think that it is far-fetched or hateful to seriously consider that when this change happened, the "original" people saw this as a defect and would banish these people. No one has absolute proof of this theory, but it definitely has potential to be true (that shouldn't make people who see the possibility hate mongers). It's seems to be human nature to shun what you don't understand or what seems different--we see it everyday here in America and in discussion boards like this.

Below are quotes taken from an article from the Washington Post in 2005 that discusses what medical research has found in regard to the mutation of DNA responsible for the white race.

"The work suggests that the skin-whitening mutation occurred by chance in a single individual after the first human exodus from Africa, when all people were brown-skinned. That person's offspring apparently thrived as humans moved northward into what is now Europe, helping to give rise to the lightest of the world's races."

"A few genes have previously been associated with human pigment disorders -- most notably those that, when mutated, lead to albinism, an extreme form of pigment loss. But the newly found glitch is the first found to play a role in the formation of "normal" white skin. The Penn State team calculates that the gene, known as slc24a5, is responsible for about one-third of the pigment loss that made black skin white. A few other as-yet-unidentified mutated genes apparently account for the rest."


If interested, please feel free to read the entire article at the link below.
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501728_pf.html"]
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To address the matter of the Caucasus Mountains (located in SW Asia)---that's not far-fetched either. Just think of the word Caucasian---a word commonly used to describe white people. Break it down--- Cauc - Asian. Since the English language has a nasty habit of combining words to make new ones; it's not "far-fetched" to consider Cauc (Inhabitants of the Caucasus Mountains) + Asian (Race of people who lived in area surrounding the Caucasus Mountains) = Caucasian. Is that a logical theory or is that being hateful??

Further Research adds:
"Caucasian or Caucasoid, term once used by anthropologists to refer to a racial group consisting primarily of the light-skinned peoples of Europe, North Africa, western Asia, and India. The designation Caucasian was first used in the 18th century by scholars who believed that white Europeans originated in Caucasia, a region in southeastern Europe and southwestern Asia" [Pertti J. Pelto.(2004) Caucasian. Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia.]

The purpose of this post was merely to address the implications that your "Black Friend" is someone pulling shit out of his ass because he hates white people. There is evidence to support his opinion -- You don't have to believe it, but know that it does exists.

Lastly, sometimes it's hard to separate all of our racist ideals and just use common sense to analyze things. But one thing we must all realize, regardless of our race, is that we have all been lied to. Historians, in many cases, have recorded past events to suit their own agenda. It is our responsibility to look at things with an open-mind and common sense to search for truth - I don't think that is a crazy concept. By the way-all races are physically and genetically more alike (99.9%), than we are different. Mentally, we have a lot of issues and seem determined to bring each other down.

AMan.ManA

well i agree with the above user that to rely on posts is a poor way to get educated unless they site sourses which in turn are cheacked out.

Having said this i would like to add a mythological aspect to this disscussion.

In the Talmud (i think) there is a story about NOAH being albino
his father Lamech went running top Enoch in fear to get council

Enoch said for a certainty that NOAH was a son of the heavenly watchers
N
Lamech asked if he shouild kill Noah, because4 Lamech was certain he would bring a cataclysm on the whole eartryh.

Lamech answered NO! You must raise him and love him as if he were your own son.

Noah was white with white hair and spoke at birth praising God in Heaven says thisa book.

Now Biologically the proicess of evolution developes more and more complx creatures as time goes on.
They develope hi9gher consciousness and intelligence

So if you are white, dont worry about myths of whiote people being killers, haters, and psychotic viuolebnt killers by nature.

evolution creates what it needs in its natural process of selectiion

and cvoinflict has bben among thye p`rime factors responsible for the ebvolutionary process.

in other words evolution saves the best for last

if these gods-kings in africa, DID BANISH whites out of fear and disgust for not being brown, they sure did get what they deserved, as this is no wat to love youyr childern.

fer efry action there is an equal and opposite reaction
this is Newtons definition of Karma
Karma to the blacks ijn this case is to experience the torture they created when they cast out their white offsptring by being enslaved tortuerd and killed

what goes around cones around.

next time i suggest you LOVE all you kids noi matter what thier color.


AMan.Amen.Ammon.Atomn.ManA

earstohear

I figured that you already have answers to this question but in case you have not, there are a couple of interesting web pages representing both sides of this argument:
support for this claim:
http://www.daghettotymz.com/rkyvz/ar...ece/ytpt1.html
opposition for this claim: (this is the truth as I understand it.)
The Celts

bilalmount

people have no understanding, i will tell you the truth but thats only if you want to know. first you should learn about genetics and natural selection. your own people hind the truth from you. after you read this, instead of debating get knowledge. read and learn , and then sort out the information . today's theories are that the white came about because moving north, because of less uv light, false, by the way im not that good in spelling or punctuation's --theories are : their is a natural mutation in the genes of human that causes lighter skin. the mutation rate in this gene is the same for all races ,african,euoupean, etc, but they claim that the mutation in this gene wouldnt cause people to get lighter in Africa because of the high uv rays(would kill the lighter ones out). but when people move north to europe less uv rays allowed people to get lighter and lighter (false). they say people wouldn't get lighter in africa because every time a mutation would happen and someone would get lighter skin they would have a less servival rate do to cancer, not true because the death age of skin cancer would be above the age of reproduction(child birth :so they would have the same chance to have children as other people ) <second why this is not true.if people moved to euorpe with less uv rays ,,,they say because of the less uv rays, the mutation in the gene that cause lighter skin was allowed to servive then over time it would get lighter and lighter....not true because ,let me explain it to you in a simple way.. let me give you an example of this mutation: two dark dark black people of the same color have a baby thats lighter than them- that has brown skin-... now what they dont tell you is this mutation can happen both ways,, two dark dark people can have babys that have brown skin / and two brown skin people can have a child with dark black skin..... they say people turned white this way. let me tell you why this couldnt happen in a simpler way.... take a very very very big tub of black paint this represents a larg population of black people . now take a dripper and drip small drops of white paint in the black tub, this is the mutation .. now if you do this for hours the paint would get grey intill it turn white... now the white race could have come this way but no remember what i just told you,, the mutation happens both ways .....so for example if you dripped in a drop of white paint witch is the light mutation, and then a drop of black paint witch adds a dark mutation (two people of dark brown can have babys thats almost dark black in tone) you could do this forever and it wouldnt turn white. evolution takes a long time but it still wouldnt happen.

so where do white people come from, i will tell you but you wont exept it because you have no understanding . i am not here to down you . i am here only to give the truth......... ALBINOS ......it is simple i dont even have to explain it in detail it is very simple. people will tell you that white people are not and can not come from albinos because albinos have no pigmentation at all . this is tru white people do have just a little bit more pigmentation than albinos. but let me explain that , self expiriment on albino mice . albino mice have white fur and red eyes. the fur is whit because of no pigment,, their eyes are red because of no pigment. you can take a whole population of albino mice put them in a box and they will breed only albino mice (if you breed albino with albino it only makes albino).
if you breed albino mice with black or brown mice the offspring will be black or brown
but if you put in black or brown mice with the albino, but not too much, because it would wipe out the whole population of the albino mice if you put to much dark mice. but if you put in just a little of dark mice every so often and let them breed for generations and generations and generations it would breed pigment into the albino mice.. you would start to see white mice with black eyes.
and you can see this example in the human population .....
if you take todays white people (not albinos,, plain white people) but get all white people with blonde hair and blue eyes and put them on an island and do the same example above after years and years and years all the white people would have dark hair and dark eyes. but you cant put in to much dark people at a time you have to take it slow or the facial features of the white people would be lost because of the dominant features of dark people. so if its done slow they would remain white people but have darker hair and eyes . [ so this proves you can breed pigment into albinos ]

and i know you are looking for another answer:: when black people in africa have albino they still look like black people. this is very simple if you just learn a little about genetics and natural salection and evolution. it is genetic facts that the dna coding in human and all animals have natural mutations . the resond why people have differient facial features is because of natural salection...the enviroment has some affect on natural salection but mostly for animals . and people too. but when people deveoped intelligence they can play a larg roll in thier own natural salection from what they choose most of. if a population would begend to favor shortness and choose that,, over time(thousand of years) all would be short

instead of going through all this debate, this is a full proof way for me to prove these [u]FACTS : AND IF YOUR ASMART PERSON YOU LL SE THROUGH THE BABBLE

THE PROOF IS ONLY IN A FEW [u]SIMPLE QUESTIONS. AND THESE QUESTIONS IM ABLE TO ANSWER THEM I KNOW THE ANSWER

IF YOU DONT KNOW I SUGGEST YOU READ THE BASICS ON THESE TOPICS : EVOLUTION, NATURAL SALECTION AND GENETICS,AND THEN COME BACK AND ANSWER THESE QUESTION.

WHITE RACE ALBINO ORGIN

QUESTION 1: IS ALBINISM REAL

QUESTION 2: WHITE PEOPLE HAVE SLIGHTLY MORE PIGMENT THAN ALBINO TRUE, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A POPULATION OF ALBINOS IN EUROPE WITH VERY SLIGHT INTERBREEDING WITH DARK PEOPLE TO BREED IN THE SLIGHT PIGMENT THAT WHITE PEOPLE HAVE TODAY, WITCH IS NOT MUCH ABOVE ALBINO.

QUESTION 3:BLACK ALBINOS DONT LOOK LIKE WHITE PEOPLE TRU.
IF YOU LEARN GENETICS YOU LL KNOW. . IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THE BLACK RACE TO CHANGE TO DIFFERIENT PHYSICAL APEARENCES THROUGH A PROCESS CALLED NATURAL SALECTION (YES)


this is an african albino boy with blonde hair

bilalmount

EXAMPLE : if you take an albino and they mate with black you are right the offspring would be dark black

but thats because that albino is the direct mutation of a gene, but he still has a strong black family background in his genetics.


EXAMPLE 2 : if you take albinos and move them away from the black population (moved to europe). and they mate with each other only, for generations (thousands years) then that makes their black ancestry weaker and the recessivness stronger . then if you take these new albinos that have been breeding with each other for generations and mix them with black their recessivness would be so strong that the offspring would be black but lighter (much like todays mixed people)

Goldenboy

Based on what I been reading on the board there is some truth to what's being said; however, not total truth. Truth be told white people or caucasian people are the descendants of Japheth, Noah's oldest son. However, their skin color did not change until they crossed the caucus mountains. This did not happen immediately, but over time. Now, this is the truth and the whole truth. In actuality, the caucasian people and not all the caucasian people. They are actuality the japhethian people.

bilalmount

take a look at the animal an plant kingdom , things evolve their shape over time but they change color in AN instant. OR THROUGH interbreeding. and any scientist will tell you.
learn natural salection an evolution

bilalmount

not one thing on earth gets lighter and lighter until its white

i use to have a hobby of plant breeding and learned a lot about genetic from books on plant breeding

i suggest you read up on evolution and natural selection

kb017

Im not racist or anything but when you think about if you were to erase the white people's entire existance what harm would it do versus the erase of black people's existance. Blacks have contributed more to this world than whites. From the very beginning it was us. Those so called fathers of Philosophy got their ideas from egypt and when they brought what they had learned home to their superiors, they asked them "but how can this be", and they could not give an answer so they made something up. I'd also like to add that we black people have been weakend by the whites. If you look at the the Lynch theory it tells why most of us do the things we do subconciously.Im *not* saying that all white people are bad and all black people are good.Look at africa everyone thinks it is a third world country, but it is not. The dominat white countries have laid "claim" to their land so that they can not make money off their natural resources. the metal used to go into space is *only* found in africa,most diamonds are found in africa, and im pretty sure there are other resources too.If Africa was given all that land back and used it correctly, it would the most powerful Continent in the world. Your ancestors are very smart for what they have done; they made the whole world look down on us. In china they have commercials and t.v shows that make fun of us and call us ******s. One last thing when it comes to interacial relationships we are more accepting any color versus any other race. In most cases if a woman or a man brings home black person that family does not except him or her whether they say it or not.

guido

Everytime I've heard that phrase from a white person, it turns out they are racist.

Africa is plagued with disease and drought. Many of its nation have been plagued with wars for years. Not calling it third-world would be a stretch. A society is not judged by the resources of their land, either. As for the Chinese TV commercials, that is something that should not be condoned. I hate the "N word," in both forms of its use. However, nearly a hundred years ago, the word was not considered a racial slur. In fact, it was a nonoffensive term for blacks. Many white and black authors used the word without racist intentions; particularly in the South.

I know several black families who would react the opposite. Anytime my black co-workers find out I'm dating a girl, they demand to know if she's black.

irot

Scientists did find last year that white people were the result of a mutant gene in black people. At the end of the day, we all come from Africa anyway; so it's not improbable.

kb017

Why is it that the idea of white people and descending from black people is just out crazy! I dont think Martins dream will ever come to pass


Kb017 Ok that doesnt mean that we are going to say yall cant be together. of course there are racist black people out there. Majority of black people will always ask no matter what the situation is ask "are they black or white". There are only a few black men with there head on straight so if he is dating a white woman then our mindset is she has taken from us because he cant raise an all black family and teach his children to go out in the world and make something of themselves and show the world that there are blacks out there with some sence.
If you are willing to see where im coming from read this book called Isis papers. I dont agree with everthing in the book but the part about social diferences between blacks and whites are very much true.

kb017

If you want to take it to the bible Abraham also did not want his son mixing with them. He said they were cursed or something. So if you want to look at it through a religous perspective you have to rule out all scientific possibilities because all things are possibal(i think i spelled that wrong) through god

BhamJoel

"he is convinced that the white race is responsible for everything evil in the world. I posed the question "If there was a button that you could press that would erase white people's entire existance, would you press it?" I then explained the consequences, and he still said yes. Wow"

MAJADUBOIS, I truly do appreciate your input on this thread. The link you provided gave me a start to researching Guido's friend's opinion.

However, the above, as Guido states as coming from his friend's mouth, is an opinion (as you state) - mixed with HATE. If you don't see the hatred, look again. Think "Hitler". He has a generalized hatred for the entire white race. How he acquired that hatred (whether through researching theories, upbringing, etc) is of NO RELEVANCE IN THIS THREAD.

I am white and I have no problem with a theory that says whites descended somehow from blacks. What makes me sad is to see people take a theory like that and use it to back up their HATRED and RACISM. I have been disgusted with whites who have done such for years. However, it is no less disgusting when a black person does the same.

You can call it "reverse-racism" or whatever you choose, but hate is hate.