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Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
But what happens to the kids who were going to the school that went out of business? "Too bad kiddies, not making enough money this month, go home"?? And the whole way that law is written, a buisness is designed to make money, regardless of what is "right". They "owe their shareholders" the biggest return for their investments, not what is best for employees, society or the children.
You have it completely backwards. The failing private schools go out of business because parents quit sending their kids to them. Parents send their kids to private schools that have a good record of success.

I believe if we each paid the money that is being spent on insurance (both individuals and companies) in taxes, the healthcare system could be remade into a functioning system that works for all, not just the wealthy.
If that were the case then how come private companies UPS and FedEx are more successful and customer friendly then the government's U.S. Postal Service?

People freak out at the word "socialized" and it is absurd. We have a "socialized" police department, "socialized" fire department, "socialized" national defense, and why?? Because those are matters of life and death. We believe (as a nation) that all people deserve those services regardless of their ability to pay. Well, healthcare is a matter of life and death too. I think we as a society need to see that all people deserve proper healthcare, not just those who can pay.
In accordance with this thread's creator, we can't post links, so I can only suggest that you look up the definition of "socialism". If you do that, you will find that American police and fire departments, and military are not socialism.
 

jillio

New Member
Just because an organization is "for profit" doesn't mean the CEO gets millions of dollars a year. There are many "for profit" organizations with much smaller profit margins.

A school run for profit would have to perform. If it doesn't produce successful students, then it goes out of business.

Not enough money per student? Then why do so many private and Christian schools get good results on much smaller budgets?
What makes you think that all business men are "rich, selfish" people who don't care? There are many ethical, philanthropic business men (and women) who care very much for their communities and future generations.


Fine. You can donate all you want of your money. But you don't have the right to force other people to do the same.


If people pay more taxes, then they have less money to spend on health care. There would be more money available for teacher salaries if we eliminate layers of bureaucracy from the public school systems.

There is nothing noble about throwing good money after bad. Wastefulness and poor management are not virtues.
Much, much lower student to teacher ratio, and less diversity in the student population.
 

faire_jour

New Member
You have it completely backwards. The failing private schools go out of business because parents quit sending their kids to them. Parents send their kids to private schools that have a good record of success.
In accordance with this thread's creator, we can't post links, so I can only suggest that you look up the definition of "socialism". If you do that, you will find that American police and fire departments, and military are not socialism.
I meant if we privatized schools. You said that the ones that didn't show progress and make money would be closed. What happens to those kids?

Socialized is defined as "To place under government or group ownership or control", therefore they are socialized.
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
I meant if we privatized schools. You said that the ones that didn't show progress and make money would be closed. What happens to those kids?

Socialized is defined as "To place under government or group ownership or control", therefore they are socialized.
simple - they go to another school. it's been like this for many years. About socialism - you're wrong there. You're confusing the basic principle of socialism. If schools is run by a socialist - the school would be funded by government, controlled by government, taught by government.... so that you will fulfill government's goal, further government's propaganda goal. But no... not in here. we're free thinkers and we have a choice. Students under socialism don't.
 

faire_jour

New Member
simple - they go to another school. it's been like this for many years. About socialism - you're wrong there. You're confusing the basic principle of socialism. If schools is run by a socialist - the school would be funded by government, controlled by government, taught by government.... so that you will fulfill government's goal, further government's propaganda goal. But no... not in here. we're free thinkers and we have a choice. Students under socialism don't.
Geez, I never said that I wanted Socialism to replace Democracy. I said that we alreay have social programs that are funded and controlled by the goverment (police, firefighters, military, schools) and I think healthcare should be funded the same way instead of privatized.
Again, there is a difference between Socialism, and socialized.

(Mod's Edit: Links removed)

http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/socialized.htm
 
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Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Much, much lower student to teacher ratio, and less diversity in the student population.
If more students were allowed school choice, that could change.

What do you consider a "much, much lower student to teacher ratio?"

Many Christian and private schools are more diverse than what is publicized.

Many Christian and private schools also offer needs-based scholarships.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
I meant if we privatized schools. You said that the ones that didn't show progress and make money would be closed. What happens to those kids?
You have it backwards. Parents pull their kids out of the schools that don't perform. The schools close AFTER the parents send their kids to better schools.

Socialized is defined as "To place under government or group ownership or control", therefore they are socialized.
You are conveniently leaving out "the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy" or "a theory or system of social organization advocating placing the ownership and control of capital, land, and means of production in the community as a whole."
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Geez, I never said that I wanted Socialism to replace Democracy. I said that we alreay have social programs that are funded and controlled by the goverment (police, firefighters, military, schools) and I think healthcare should be funded the same way instead of privatized.
Again, there is a difference between Socialism, and socialized.
No links allowed, remember?
 
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Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
simple - they go to another school. it's been like this for many years. About socialism - you're wrong there. You're confusing the basic principle of socialism. If schools is run by a socialist - the school would be funded by government, controlled by government, taught by government.... so that you will fulfill government's goal, further government's propaganda goal. But no... not in here. we're free thinkers and we have a choice. Students under socialism don't.
Misleading!

No, faire_jour is right. I agree everything what faire_jour said in her posts.

Sure, all school are under Government but we are FREE to choose which public school, my children attend to. Government GIVE us free choice for our children...

All school have their own policies and rules. Oh yes it does the same in America... Oh yes, I learn from debate thread "Homeschool" that Americans cannot have their choice to which school their children attend to because of area where they lives. If they are not happy with public school then they are free to choose to send their children to private school or homeschool.

I have seen stupid rules in school policy at many threads here... Free thinkers? Choice? :laugh2:

faire_jour, some ADers have no idea what difference between Socialism, and socialized is about.

 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
They are just don't understand and too greedy.
Yes, it remind me of the movie "John Q". I own DVD and repeat to watch it many times... :tears:

It prove that the producer of "John Q" fiction movie is right and know what he filmed about since it match Babyblue´s description about doctors and specialists....
 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
Doctors spend many years in college and internship.
Yes, EVERY doctors, therapies and Experts around the world also, too not just America but they are happy and satisfy with their salary.

If the government take control of health care it just takes away the freedom might as well turn into a communist country
This is a misleading.

It doesn´t mean that the country become a communist country because Government provide the healthcare for ALL people.

Look, my son had a head surgery at 2 years ago after bicycle accident. I would get total stress if I learn that my healthcare coverage doesn´t limit the cost for my son´s head surgery and force to sell the house to cover the head surgery if I live in America which is a scary... I am really glad that I have umlimited healthcare insurance then they cover everything to 100% for us including dental care, etc. My son´s head surgery cost was fully covered by healthcare insurance with no compliment... I keep my house.. :)

Communist? Honestly, I feel that I have much freedom and stress-free in Germany than in America. I do not need to run to door and door for donation like the example of "John Q" movie... I learn that many people in America did like that to beg for charity to help their children´s healthcare... some children have to die because their parents cannot afford to have healthcare coverage.

I remember one ADer have to pay $300 for take her child to ER for only few minutes examination... $300????

Another ADer have to pay $400 for only few minutes examination...

I do feel that the doctors see after your money, not your health... they ripped you off like what John Q said to doctor in John Q movies... I :ty: the producer for film "John Q"...

I would advise you to focus deepest...


Salary cap for this and a cap for that capping off what people have worked for is taking the rights for the one that bust their asses to achieve their goals.

If your boss reduced and capped your salary.... Would you stick around? I wouldn't I would leave and find someone to pay me what I'm worth. That is the freedom we have and I would like to keep that.

Slowly our rights are being taken away.

Do you think it´s quick and easy to look for another job because you are not happy with the salary, your boss pay you?

I am satisfy what I am which is a mainly important.
 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
Something to think about, there's one thing I do notice about the two candiates is how each will handle certain situations.

Like for McCain, he seems to clam up or gets uptight while addressing issues while Obama seems to be calmer holding up during sensitive issues.

The question of who would be better suited sitting across from other leaders in our world during certain crisises.

Do we want someone that shows poise or someone that seems to get agitated?

I do believe that this just as important as other issues that separates the two candiates IMO.

Yes, that´s what many Republicians including Colin Powell said the same thing... Colin Powell said yesterday that McCain/Palin´s behavior toward Obama over Ayers issues is too far... It proves itself that it put the people including himself off and decide for Obama.
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
Yes, EVERY doctors, therapies and Experts around the world also, too not just America but they are happy and satisfy with their salary.
mind you..... this is a capitalist country. this is a place where people of any professions, religions, races, genders, etc. come to make big bucks. If doctors in country with universal health care are satisfied with their salary.. that's fine. they can live in there. however - some doctors want to make a lucrative amount of money.... they come to USA for that. So do businessmen. so do just about anybody. so did i.

Some may view it as a pure greed... but you're forgetting that this type of capitalism is a powerful incentive to continue developing innovative procedure/products at rapid pace. I'm sure there are handful of scientists/doctors who have such a noble cause... wanting to find better cure.... but unfortunately.... this requires a hefty amount of money and manpower. What better way than capitalism to expediate this matter?

get rich and be cool :cool2:
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Geez, I never said that I wanted Socialism to replace Democracy. I said that we alreay have social programs that are funded and controlled by the goverment (police, firefighters, military, schools) and I think healthcare should be funded the same way instead of privatized.
Again, there is a difference between Socialism, and socialized.
(Mod's Edit: Links removed)
I agree with you, however you don't make any wrong about what happen with health care, same goes with Liebling.

When compare with several years, medical cost has skyrocket for USA only because there's no government control on medical cost, for both of universal health care and universal coverage (social insurance), government control on medical cost to keep down, there's many other countries have universal health care or social insurance, both of them are different way, just look for more info that you can get more detail. If it does adopt in US then no way for doctor or specialist to leave because almost all developed countries have universal health care or social insurance, even they could use as private health care.

I know about Reba's means, I don't agree with her about health care must run like profit or businesses. There's millions of Americans are uninsured, also not quality for medicaid as well, I think that she don't care about millions of Americans with uninsured.

Capitalism health care would continue to be more worse in next 10 years or so as increase of percent on uninsured, it's not good as in last 10 years when medical cost were cheap at this time, I can't afford to get health insurance but fortunately , I have medicaid but only problem is more limited and would try to work out if I could get insurance for better cost but not going happen until later.

Universal health care or social insurance has nothing with views of communist.
 
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Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes, it remind me of the movie "John Q". I own DVD and repeat to watch it many times... :tears:

It prove that the producer of "John Q" fiction movie is right and know what he filmed about since it match Babyblue´s description about doctors and specialists....
Yup, I had read about social insurance in your country, it's good as expected and well for Germans.
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If more students were allowed school choice, that could change.

What do you consider a "much, much lower student to teacher ratio?"

Many Christian and private schools are more diverse than what is publicized.

Many Christian and private schools also offer needs-based scholarships.
Do you want rid of public school system? :eek3:

Bad idea, literacy rate would going down if rid of public school system and no way for children to have education at no charge.

I'm personally don't like private school, including religious school as well.
 

Royale

Active Member
I have heard some Doctors and specialist say if universal health care kick in they will leave the US.

They said it will cause them to be overworked and underpaid.
It have already happened in Canada. Some specialists and family doctors including mine have moved to the U.S. for better pay, working environment, and benefits.

Some specialists and family doctors have doubled their duties as emergency services doctors. A few months ago, I suffered a badly injured foot which required medical attention and my emergency doctor was actually a pediatric doctor.
 

Royale

Active Member
I prefer no religion play any roles in our political processes and campaigns because they tend to cause a lot of stir and divide our people.
 
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