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Angel

♥"Concrete Angel"♥
Premium Member
I'm a registered independent voter also, I'm not so sure who I'm voting for, but I’m going to vote for the person I think will do the best job.

Right now, Obama and McCain both scares me, :cold:

There is something about both of them that just does not sit well with me.
 

faire_jour

New Member
Yes, they prefer to be underworked and overpaid.:hmm:

Maybe it is not the system that is the problem, but their basic philosophy of patient care. Business oriented rather than patient oriented. That is peculiar to Western medicine. And something that a change that embraces the ability of all citizens to recieve health care seeks to correct.
I find it very offensive that a hospital is run like e buisness. WHY do they need to make money from a sick person? Firefighters don't ask if you can pay before they put out the fire in your home. The police don't ask for a check before they show up. Schools aren't run to turn a profit. Why on earth does healthcare? I think it is inhuman and disgusting.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
I find it very offensive that a hospital is run like e buisness. WHY do they need to make money from a sick person? Firefighters don't ask if you can pay before they put out the fire in your home. The police don't ask for a check before they show up. Schools aren't run to turn a profit. Why on earth does healthcare? I think it is inhuman and disgusting.
Someone has to pay the salaries of doctors, nurses, technicians, food servicer workers, housekeepers, and hospital maintenance workers. Someone has to pay for hospital buildings, equipment, and utilities. Someone has to pay for the linens, medicine, chemicals, and disposable materials. Who should pay? If the hospital is not run in a businesslike manner, will there be waste and fraud?

A couple hundred years ago, firefighters would put out the fires only of buildings that displayed a fire insurance emblem. I'm glad that we have come a long way since then. Also, volunteer fire fighters are an honorable tradition in America. However, even volunteers need special clothing and equipment, fire engines, fire houses, and supplies. Those things aren't free.

The police don't request money directly from the citizens whom they serve but someone has to pay their salaries. The police don't work for free. There have even been occasions when they went on strike for their wages. Does anyone really expect them to protect and serve for free?

Are school facilities, utilities, equipment, and maintenance free of cost? Do the teachers, coaches, cafeteria workers, maintenance workers, and principals work for free?

Are not the above people worthy of their hire?

Do we not expect the best services, hospital buildings and equipment?

The American hospital system can use a lot of improvement but we can't expect it to be run like a charity. They need profits to re-invest in expansion and improvements.
 

faire_jour

New Member
Someone has to pay the salaries of doctors, nurses, technicians, food servicer workers, housekeepers, and hospital maintenance workers. Someone has to pay for hospital buildings, equipment, and utilities. Someone has to pay for the linens, medicine, chemicals, and disposable materials. Who should pay? If the hospital is not run in a businesslike manner, will there be waste and fraud?

A couple hundred years ago, firefighters would put out the fires only of buildings that displayed a fire insurance emblem. I'm glad that we have come a long way since then. Also, volunteer fire fighters are an honorable tradition in America. However, even volunteers need special clothing and equipment, fire engines, fire houses, and supplies. Those things aren't free.

The police don't request money directly from the citizens whom they serve but someone has to pay their salaries. The police don't work for free. There have even been occasions when they went on strike for their wages. Does anyone really expect them to protect and serve for free?

Are school facilities, utilities, equipment, and maintenance free of cost? Do the teachers, coaches, cafeteria workers, maintenance workers, and principals work for free?

Are not the above people worthy of their hire?

Do we not expect the best services, hospital buildings and equipment?

The American hospital system can use a lot of improvement but we can't expect it to be run like a charity. They need profits to re-invest in expansion and improvements.
You just proved me right! All those people are being paid, but they aren't run as a buisness. I believe healthcare should be run like police, firefighters and schools. Every single one of those people are paid, but it is not a for-profit situation.
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
Once our rights are bein' taken away, it becomes irreversible. Constitution will become useless and put it away in a hidden place, so that our future children will not read/know them....like it never happens. In schools, they will remove some things that are very important for children to know about our country. They will teach children what their rights are without parents' consent. There are many things that some people don't know. I read one book about schools ( nowdays ) and it horrified me to realize that our future children will turn against their parents' teachings/disciplines by followin' the government. Gee, I feel that they violate the parents' rights to own their children, just because they think that the parents are not good enough to raise/take care of their own children.... since there are too many abuses involved. I think the government is tryin' to save their money by cuttin' some agencies down by takin' over people's places... like if, the government is people's mommy/daddy - no more on their own to take care of.
yea... oh wait - we already lost it under Bush Administration. Something called Patriot Acts and bunch of other bills. Want more? Vote for McCain.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
You just proved me right! All those people are being paid, but they aren't run as a buisness. I believe healthcare should be run like police, firefighters and schools. Every single one of those people are paid, but it is not a for-profit situation.
No. Fire fighters, police, and schools are paid for by our taxes. Is that what you want?

From what I've observed, maybe the schools should be managed like businesses. We don't seem to be getting much bang for the buck from the public schools.
 

Angel

♥"Concrete Angel"♥
Premium Member
Something to think about, there's one thing I do notice about the two candiates is how each will handle certain situations.

Like for McCain, he seems to clam up or gets uptight while addressing issues while Obama seems to be calmer holding up during sensitive issues.

The question of who would be better suited sitting across from other leaders in our world during certain crisises.

Do we want someone that shows poise or someone that seems to get agitated?

I do believe that this just as important as other issues that separates the two candiates IMO.
 

Hear Again

New Member
Something to think about, there's one thing I do notice about the two candiates is how each will handle certain situations.

Like for McCain, he seems to clam up or gets uptight while addressing issues while Obama seems to be calmer holding up during sensitive issues.

The question of who would be better suited sitting across from other leaders in our world during certain crisises.

Do we want someone that shows poise or someone that seems to get agitated?

I do believe that this just as important as other issues that separates the two candiates IMO.
I couldn't agree with you more, Angel. :gpost:

What we need in the White House is a President who can maintain composure when faced with challenging or difficult situations.

Quite frankly, McCain's temper scares me. :Ohno:
 

Jolie77

New Member
Premium Member
I couldn't agree with you more, Angel. :gpost:

What we need in the White House is a President who can maintain composure when faced with challenging or difficult situations.

Quite frankly, McCain's temper scares me. :Ohno:
Indeed. Granted, Everyone knows how stressful that position is day in and day out.

What we need is a President who can also be vigil but yet, a president who is able to tweak things around in order to make it negotiable.
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
No. Fire fighters, police, and schools are paid for by our taxes. Is that what you want?

From what I've observed, maybe the schools should be managed like businesses. We don't seem to be getting much bang for the buck from the public schools.
:werd:
 

Maria

New Member
Premium Member
yea... oh wait - we already lost it under Bush Administration. Something called Patriot Acts and bunch of other bills. Want more? Vote for McCain.
:lol: Like I mentioned to you before, McCain and Obama's decisions are not goin' to be that perfect. They both will always have problems with many issues that they BOTH can Not resolve for years to come. The problems will INCREASE more and more until it explodes - spinnin' without control. Hell will break loose ... without a lid coverin' its can.

Obama will cause problems, because of his decisions will NOT make this nation in peace like everythin' will go smooth and work out with everythin' ... so therefore, it goes the same with McCain.

I am watchin' everythin' unfold in front of my own eyes through readin' news and I can see why everythin' should happen for a GOOD reason. :cool2:
 

Babyblue

New Member
yea... oh wait - we already lost it under Bush Administration. Something called Patriot Acts and bunch of other bills. Want more? Vote for McCain.
Well that wasn't Bush's fault. The people asked for something to be done about our national security.

The ones that voted for it is the one to pass it.
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
:lol: Like I mentioned to you before, McCain and Obama's decisions are not goin' to be that perfect. They both will always have problems with many issues that they BOTH can Not resolve for years to come. The problems will INCREASE more and more until it explodes - spinnin' without control. Hell will break loose ... without a lid coverin' its can.

Obama will cause problems, because of his decisions will NOT make this nation in peace like everythin' will go smooth and work out with everythin' ... so therefore, it goes the same with McCain.

I am watchin' everythin' unfold in front of my own eyes through readin' news and I can see why everythin' should happen for a GOOD reason. :cool2:
Well that wasn't Bush's fault. The people asked for something to be done about our national security.

The ones that voted for it is the one to pass it.
I don't know about you but Bush is NOT the right man for this type of National Security crisis. This is the man whose decisions resulted in disastrous events after events, stripping away our Constitutional Rights, gave more powers to corporations, etc....

Surely - either Obama or McCain would do better job than Bush but we're no longer in this whole 9/11 terrorism war. It's already over and we're in no shape to continue any longer. Now we have a war at home. IMO - Obama is the right man for it.
 

faire_jour

New Member
No. Fire fighters, police, and schools are paid for by our taxes. Is that what you want?

From what I've observed, maybe the schools should be managed like businesses. We don't seem to be getting much bang for the buck from the public schools.
And having a CEO paying himself millions of dollars a year would be helpful? Huh? How would running a school for profit help? The reason the schools are so poor is because their isn't enough money. How would having rich, selfish, buisness men running it, instead of people who care, be the answer?
Oh, and I would have no problem paying higher taxes for healthcare and better schools. I actually believe that people should help each other and I know that there is a price for that. People are so ridiculous about taxes. Everyone gets worked up. Things cost money, oh well!If I want teachers to make more money, I have to pay. If I want to have real healthcare for people who can't afford it, I have to pay for it. Imagine that....I think there are more important things than money!
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
And having a CEO paying himself millions of dollars a year would be helpful? Huh? How would running a school for profit help? The reason the schools are so poor is because their isn't enough money. How would having rich, selfish, buisness men running it, instead of people who care, be the answer?
Oh, and I would have no problem paying higher taxes for healthcare and better schools. I actually believe that people should help each other and I know that there is a price for that. People are so ridiculous about taxes. Everyone gets worked up. Things cost money, oh well!If I want teachers to make more money, I have to pay. If I want to have real healthcare for people who can't afford it, I have to pay for it. Imagine that....I think there are more important things than money!
that's why people go to private schools...
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
And having a CEO paying himself millions of dollars a year would be helpful? Huh? How would running a school for profit help? The reason the schools are so poor is because their isn't enough money. How would having rich, selfish, buisness men running it, instead of people who care, be the answer?
Just because an organization is "for profit" doesn't mean the CEO gets millions of dollars a year. There are many "for profit" organizations with much smaller profit margins.

A school run for profit would have to perform. If it doesn't produce successful students, then it goes out of business.

Not enough money per student? Then why do so many private and Christian schools get good results on much smaller budgets?

What makes you think that all business men are "rich, selfish" people who don't care? There are many ethical, philanthropic business men (and women) who care very much for their communities and future generations.

Oh, and I would have no problem paying higher taxes for healthcare and better schools.
Fine. You can donate all you want of your money. But you don't have the right to force other people to do the same.

I actually believe that people should help each other and I know that there is a price for that. If I want teachers to make more money, I have to pay. If I want to have real healthcare for people who can't afford it, I have to pay for it. Imagine that....I think there are more important things than money!
If people pay more taxes, then they have less money to spend on health care. There would be more money available for teacher salaries if we eliminate layers of bureaucracy from the public school systems.

There is nothing noble about throwing good money after bad. Wastefulness and poor management are not virtues.
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
Yeah, but I think my money is better spent by paying taxes and helping everyone instead of sending my kid to private school and helping only her.
why pay more taxes? You're actually going to put that much faith in government to handle your money? You know you don't get to choose how your tax money is being spent on. Like what Reba said - donate your money. It's better that way. At least you're donating to a specific organization with specific goal.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Yeah, but I think my money is better spent by paying taxes and helping everyone instead of sending my kid to private school and helping only her.
Those of us who send our children to private or Christian schools pay taxes for pubic schools AND pay tuition for our children. It's not an either-or situation--it's both.
 

faire_jour

New Member
Just because an organization is "for profit" doesn't mean the CEO gets millions of dollars a year. There are many "for profit" organizations with much smaller profit margins.

A school run for profit would have to perform. If it doesn't produce successful students, then it goes out of business.

Not enough money per student? Then why do so many private and Christian schools get good results on much smaller budgets?

What makes you think that all business men are "rich, selfish" people who don't care? There are many ethical, philanthropic business men (and women) who care very much for their communities and future generations.


Fine. You can donate all you want of your money. But you don't have the right to force other people to do the same.


If people pay more taxes, then they have less money to spend on health care. There would be more money available for teacher salaries if we eliminate layers of bureaucracy from the public school systems.

There is nothing noble about throwing good money after bad. Wastefulness and poor management are not virtues.
But what happens to the kids who were going to the school that went out of business? "Too bad kiddies, not making enough money this month, go home"?? And the whole way that law is written, a buisness is designed to make money, regardless of what is "right". They "owe their shareholders" the biggest return for their investments, not what is best for employees, society or the children.

I believe if we each paid the money that is being spent on insurance (both individuals and companies) in taxes, the healthcare system could be remade into a functioning system that works for all, not just the wealthy.
People freak out at the word "socialized" and it is absurd. We have a "socialized" police department, "socialized" fire department, "socialized" national defense, and why?? Because those are matters of life and death. We believe (as a nation) that all people deserve those services regardless of their ability to pay. Well, healthcare is a matter of life and death too. I think we as a society need to see that all people deserve proper healthcare, not just those who can pay.
 
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