Your personal view only

[Liebling:-)))]

no...... You failed to see my simple point. You complained that (American) doctors only care about money. I simply explained why is it "like that" but it's not what you think. I already explained the cost of becoming doctor and what it takes. American doctors study for years and it costs tremendous amount of money and sacrifice for that. Don't they deserve to be compensated for it? It's a powerful incentive for them to put in sacrifice, time, and cost to become a good doctor. Socialist-type health care way is not a great incentive.

No, I do not complaint but my reaction toward both ADers´ posts and call them as greedy and selfish is my POV if their claim about American doctors are really true.

Originally Posted by Babyblue
I have heard some Doctors and specialist say if universal health care kick in they will leave the US.

They said it will cause them to be overworked and underpaid.

Reba´s post
We were discussing doctors and how they might leave hospitals if health care became "socialized."

No, its not just Americans who work hard to study for years but there´re many students in many countries around the world as well who want to moviate to become doctors, experts, etc because they all want to help sick people, not for wealthy and money. The reason is my reaction on both ADers´ posts is because it prove itself that they see after money, not help sick people.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That is true but Jiro is right. My cousin is in her internship to become a doctor and she paid her own way through from her first year of college all the way to her internship. When she graduates with her M.D., she will be in serious debt and for her to be able to afford a house and all the necessities she needs to earn at least 100K a year. She is not doing it for the power and wealth...but because she has a passion for caring for sick and injured people.

Sure, there are some people who are in it for the money and power but a few cuz medical school is extremely tough and one has to have a passion for that field to make it through or so I was told.

Yes, I aware that the people study to become doctors, etc like what they did here in Germany... Yes it takes years to study to become what they really wish, not for money and wealth... It´s their good moviation like what your cousin did but I guess that you miss why I said this to Jiro is because of my reaction toward both ADers´ posts... (see my post #243 to Jiro).


If doctors complaint about their study years to become doctor for "nothing" or want to leave America if universal healthcare comes then the job is not right for them because they want wealth and money.

 

[Jiro]

You and I deserve to own a $250,000 home, 4 cars and go on cruises 3 times a year for all the hard we we do servicing others! Teachers are underpaid too..

Guess drs need to get underpaid just like we do and then they can bitch and complain about the high cost of living.

I don't know why wonderful counselors and teachers like you are being neglected and underpaid as you guys are the front line of defense. Shame on USA.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

People have jobs to make money. They have careers for many other reasons.

Yes, that´s right.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You and I deserve to own a $250,000 home, 4 cars and go on cruises 3 times a year for all the hard we we do servicing others! Teachers are underpaid too..

Guess drs need to get underpaid just like we do and then they can bitch and complain about the high cost of living.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Originally Posted by Hear Again
I have no doubt about that. Would you believe it costs $100/hour for a 15 minute psychiatric visit? No wonder psychiatrists make the exhorbitant amount of money they do.

Now, that's extreme...$100 an hour. Wrong..so wrong.

Yes I know... that´s why I am for universal healthcare...

Same goes for lawyers who charge that much too. No wonder America working class are underserved..we cant get free service but we cant afford these kinds of prices so we are stuck without getting the care we need.

Yes I aware that´s why we insured for family legal protection then we can go to lawyer for advice or sue for real reasons... My family legal protection insurance pays to cover the lawyer, court, etc for me.

 

[Babyblue]

People have jobs to make money. They have careers for many other reasons.[/
QUOTE]

And people have a choice of jobs or career

they choose to goto college to find better jobs and careers.

Or they can just find a job.

But the ones that choose to be something should not be complaining about someone working less and getting paid more due to it was a choice.

People out in the feilds bust their butts work twice as hard in extreme weather. Don't get paid like some of you do.

 

[shel90]

I am voting for Obama because he represents change. He's a positive man, and he is extremely passionate about helping Americans. He is well cultured and he has taught the Constitutional Law for over a decade... and that's IMPORTANT to me. He speaks very well and his speeches are very consistent and well composed.

He also represent diversity - he's a product of biracial parents so he clearly knows well about race and shows tolerance for different ideas.

He will hike taxes for the RICH making over $250,000 and remember, that also means that he will be willing to pay MORE taxes to benefit the American economy yet at the same time, he will give low middle class more tax cuts - that means if you make less than 60,000 a year, you'll get at least TWICE more tax cuts - bigger tax refunds on your way if you elect Obama! Under McCain, you'd get $319 but under Obama, you'd get $1,042!

Remember the Clinton era - the economy was one of the best we ever had and when Clinton left, we had SURPLUS and now Bush is leaving with a HUGE deficit.

Obama intends to increase the tax rate back to Clinton's rate which is 39% for the rich. If you think 39% is high, then think of the good old days in 1950's - lots of middle class, low crime, moral people, well structured, well cared... do you know how much the rich had to pay? They were taxed at 91%! Yes, you heard that... the rich was taxed at 91%! Guess where the money went? Their money was spent on interstate highways and superior military power that ended World War II. None of that would be possible if we didn't tax the rich that much money!

Obama inspires millions of people to vote. Today, I waited TWO HOURS in line to vote. And it's worth the wait!

 

[Foxrac]

In last 8 years ago, capitalism health care is great and cheaper, that what I used to support capitalism health care but not anymore after cost of medical and insurance went skyrocket and increase of uninsured citizens, I think about need more regulation to control on medical cost and keep capitalism in views. I feel that got mixed on between capitalism insurance and social insurance, or market control medical cost vs. government control medical cost. If anything like that and make looks like more leaning on libertarian, it's socially liberal (such as gay rights, abortion) and centrist-conservative on economy or heavily on capitalism (such as health care).

Reba, what's your idea about would addresses on uninsured Americans, including if workplace don't offers insurance?

 

[jillio]

People have jobs to make money. They have careers for many other reasons.[/
QUOTE]

And people have a choice of jobs or career

they choose to goto college to find better jobs and careers.

Or they can just find a job.

But the ones that choose to be something should not be complaining about someone working less and getting paid more due to it was a choice.

People out in the feilds bust their butts work twice as hard in extreme weather. Don't get paid like some of you do.

And the ones that are working less and making more should not be justifying it by their educational expenses. They, too, had a choice.

 

[Babyblue]

And the ones that are working less and making more should not be justifying it by their educational expenses. They, too, had a choice.

Yes they did they choose to get an higher education so they can make more Money.

They don't have to justify their choice. They did what they wanted.

 

[Reba]

... I do certainly wish that there are more noble doctors like "Doctors Without Borders." Gotta be realistic in here...

Don't forget, "Doctors Without Borders" is possible because wealthy doctors can afford to donate their time.

There are also plastic surgeons who charge their wealthy clients outrageous fees so they can use that money to afford time off, travel expenses, and provide free services to help disfigured poor children and burn victims.

 

[Foxrac]

Don't forget, "Doctors Without Borders" is possible because wealthy doctors can afford to donate their time.

There are also plastic surgeons who charge their wealthy clients outrageous fees so they can use that money to afford time off, travel expenses, and provide free services to help disfigured poor children and burn victims.

Did you see my post #251?

Reba, what's your idea about would addresses on millions of uninsured Americans, including if workplace don't offers insurance?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I don't understand some of you complaint about "socialized" but there're socialized in America... example: obligation car insurance, medicard/medicare, taxes... How about that?

What's wrong with that socialized?

 

[jillio]

Yes they did they choose to get an higher education so they can make more Money.

They don't have to justify their choice. They did what they wanted.

They do not have to justify their choice. That justification becomes necessary only when they complain about the consequences of their choices...such as complaining about the cost of obtaining the education they chose to get.

 

[doubletrouble]

I am an independent and still unsure of how I am going to vote, but one thing is for sure.... $250,000.00 in all parts of the country is not "wealthy". If you live in the New York city area and suburbs, have more than 3 children, own a house... and BOTH parents are working.. $250,000.00 is just making it. I'm not saying feel sorry for us, but the cost of llving is much higher here, and such, many many people have to 2 jobs to make ends meet. Rent here (even in areas considered "unfit" STARTS at $1400.00 and our electric bills are the highest in the county. People with GOOD jobs here are forced to live with other family members to make ends meet. These people don't have debt, and don't vacation.... it's pretty scary around here.So while $250,000.00 sounds like a lot in other places, in New York... it's really not a lot of money at all...

 

[Jiro]

Don't forget, "Doctors Without Borders" is possible because wealthy doctors can afford to donate their time.

There are also plastic surgeons who charge their wealthy clients outrageous fees so they can use that money to afford time off, travel expenses, and provide free services to help disfigured poor children and burn victims.

oh? I've always thought a handful of doctors from "Doctors Without Borders" are not interested in money. I'm not sure why would wealthy doctors would do it since it's very dangerous.

About that plastic surgeons - that's really nice of them. Smells like a bit of socialism but still very noble of them to help the poor at no charge.

 

[Reba]

oh? I've always thought a handful of doctors from "Doctors Without Borders" are not interested in money. I'm not sure why would wealthy doctors would do it since it's very dangerous.

I don't know why you can't believe that wealthy people can also be caring and generous people.

There are plenty of "non-wealthy" greedy people around, too.

About that plastic surgeons - that's really nice of them. Smells like a bit of socialism but still very noble of them to help the poor at no charge.

No, it's not socialism. People who donate (key word--DONATE) their services do it because they want to, not because the government forces them to do it.

 

[Jiro]

I don't know why you can't believe that wealthy people can also be caring and generous people.

There are plenty of "non-wealthy" greedy people around, too.

whoops! I forgot to add one more word. "MANY" wealthy people. But yes you're right - there are people like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc. who do donate hefty amount of money but the "Doctors Without Borders" is different. Your life is constantly in danger. I don't think you would find that many wealthy people who'd risk their life for noble cause.

No, it's not socialism. People who donate (key word--DONATE) their services do it because they want to, not because the government forces them to do it.

Because the doctor charged outrageously high fees for wealthy clients to distribute it as part of compensation for poor patients at no charge. So that's not really donation in principle. More like a sneaky donation.

 

[Reba]

whoops! I forgot to add one more word. "MANY" wealthy people. But yes you're right - there are people like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc. who do donate hefty amount of money but the "Doctors Without Borders" is different. Your life is constantly in danger. I don't think you would find that many wealthy people who'd risk their life for noble cause.

I personally know a doctor who goes to India at his own expense every year for a few weeks to donate his medical services.

You'd be surprised how many wealthy people risk their well being for good causes. They just don't publicize it.

Because the doctor charged outrageously high fees for wealthy clients to distribute it as part of compensation for poor patients at no charge. So that's not really donation in principle. More like a sneaky donation.

The wealthy clients paid voluntarily for their services. If they don't like the price or the doctor they can choose to go elsewhere. Some surgeons use that money for themselves, some use it for other people or causes. It's their choice.