who do you think that really killed Jesus?

[Reba]

I can see that you missed other thread. Some ADers felt being discrimination over which kind of race when they fill out the job application or whatever.

I still don't see any connection between a job application and this topic.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I've never used those phrases.

Did I say YOU? Don't make a false accusation.

But to be historically accurate, we can't use "general" terms; we have to be specific or else we aren't accurate. We can't change history to fit our sensibilities.

I stand what I said: Relgious leaders were under Roman authorities. IF they don't want to stay under Roman authorities then left Roman authorities to go their own way then... Why can't they then?

If you stated, "some of you", then that does include me.

You said this, not me.

Well, the Jews were included, not excluded, from those who condemned Jesus. Why deny that? The religious leaders lived under the political control of the Romans but that didn't change them from Jew to Roman. They were Jews who led Jewish congregations in Jewish worship of a Jewish religion. That would make them Jewish religious leaders, NOT Roman. There is no way around that.

Of course everyone know relgious leaders were Jewish and lived under Roman's authorities. If they hate being rule by Roman authorities then leave and follow Jesus everywhere then or go their own way... Why can't they then?

I'm trying to understand but I don't think your comparisons are equivalent. The USA Army is made up of men and women of various races, yes, but they are still all Americans. The Roman Empire was made up of people of various races and nationalities but most of them never became Romans. Just living inside Roman Empire's borders under Roman control didn't make someone a Roman.

No, I see different as you...

"British Liebling live under German authorities because she choose to live in Germany".

It does the same with US soliders who choose to live in America and serve for America. I consider them as US army because they work for US authorities.

Just like the French living under German control during WWII. The French people lived under German control but they didn't become Germans.

Again, after WWII - French did not become German and follow German authorities but French authorites. German Government do not want to control them but leave what they are and still living under French authorities. During WWII they were under German authorities, now no more.

BTW, Americans haven't killed any Iranians; we aren't at war with them.

I mean Iraq

Stating historical facts is not the same as "blaming".

The people agree/disagree against each other over historical facts. Their focus on historical facts does never stop. Oh yes, they do blame each other... Example: When I was in Cyprus and they talked bad thing about Turkey and then I was in Turkey and they talked bad thing about Cyprus. Its about blame each other...

 

[Cheri]

Cheri, I do not owe u an apology for lying to u which u accused me but I do owe u an apology for misunderstood u when u made a comment on this since so many christians have hurt me for long time Now go ahead accuse of me to lock up this religious as for I do not care because I am so tired of people come here on Ad and say bad thing about my belief. Is this what this all about to get along and to work out or conitune to battle against. since many people here on Ad are annti-catholic and talk sh*^ about it all the time. I am so getting fed up with this. allright. I am leaving this ad since so u can have all your own posts to yourself and keep going on to trash other people's faith. sd for I do not care.

:roll:

 

[Secretblend]

Liebling, the Jews were conquered by the Romans. They had no choice but to be under their rule. Things were different then than they are now.

It is just like when German was in power over Europe. Were the people that was under German's rule able to just leave like you said they should have if didn't like their rule?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If you can make a point about Catholics making movies, then I can make a point about Scientologists making movies. The overall point is, the movie makers' religion (or lack of religion) should either be relevant for all movies, or not relevant for any, if you are being fair.

If you believe that The Passion of Christ should be judged only on its merits and not on who made it, then you should have the same belief about movies that are made by Scientologists. Otherwise, your opinion about The Passion is not fair.

I also find it interesting that you are sensitive to historical accuracy when it comes to a German historic figure and events but not when it applies to biblical historic figures and events.

I don't care about any relgious and still watch what kind of Jesus's movies made by different relgious producer. I did not make point about catholic movie but someone did in first place, don't I? I saw the point and want Cheri aware that Mel Gibson is a catholic and made catholic historical movie like what someone stated in their posts and explain what I know, that's all. I do not against when anyone who have different belief than catholic want to watch catholic historical movies because I see why not... we collect Jesus's movies from any relgious/bible historicals... and then give Cheri and Angel right that we don't care about any relgious movies but focus bible historical which made by any relgious believer. I really has no clue why you brought up :topic: post to accuse me here... *scratch my head*

Anyway, please respect Cheri's thread. Its about any Jesus's movies by different relgious movie producer. Its about Jesus, not about Tom Cruise's belief. Please post Scientology issues in your own thread because Tom Cruise did not play Jesus in Scientology movies. We would debated here if Tom Cruise play Jesus in scientology movies but he doesn't.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling, the Jews were conquered by the Romans. They had no choice but to be under their rule. Things were different then than they are now.

It is just like when German was in power over Europe. Were the people that was under German's rule able to just leave like you said they should have if didn't like their rule?

Example about WWII, a lot of people escaped out of Germany after learn about Nazi's rules because they don't like Nazi's rules. Former communists escaped out of communist country because they don't like their rules, either.

 

[Reba]

...Anyway, please respect Cheri's thread....

OK. For Cheri's sake I will drop discussion of the movies.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, I did not. Where on my post did I mention "death"? I said that Jewish Religion Leaders were primarily responsible for Christ’s crucifixion which meaning, They wanted him crucified from the get and go. I did not mention with the Religion Leader's authorities either.

Yes, you are correct that Relgion leaders want Jesus crucifixion in first place but they would not get it without Roman authorities's permission. right?

 

[Reba]

Example about WWII, a lot of people escaped out of Germany after learn about Nazi's rules because they don't like Nazi's rules. Former communists escaped out of communist country because they don't like their rules, either.

But most people were stuck in their countries, or died trying to escape. An entire nation of people can't just pick up and move out.

 

[Secretblend]

Example about WWII, a lot of people escaped out of Germany after learn about Nazi's rules because they don't like Nazi's rules. Former communists escaped out of communist country because they don't like their rules, either.

Alot may have, but most didn't have a choice but to stay behind.

However for the Jews in Jesus's time, it was their land that was given to them by God, Why would they leave the land that God gave them?

They also didn't have cars and trucks like they did in WW2. Times were different then.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

The religious leaders were Jewish scribes, pharisees, high priests and elders. There were no Romans in that group. So why should anyone call them "Roman"? The Romans were political and military leaders; they were governors and soldiers. They were not religious leaders of the Jewish population.

Correction: Roman's relgious leaders, not Roman relgious leaders. I know you said in previous post, no matter either Roman or Roman's relgious leaders. Relgious leaders were lived under Roman authorities.

Just because you "prefer" not to name them correctly doesn't change the facts.

How do you know it's fact? Because some Jews denied it and other Jews accept it and other jews said not true... I rather say nothing...

Point? Did you notice your quotation said, "Jewish laws on capital trials are found in texts almost two centuries after the death of Jesus (M. Sanh. 4-11), so it is not known whether they reflect first-century practice."? So, first of all, this is speculation. Secondly, who ever said that the leaders did everything on the up and up? Sneaky people with an agenda often do their work in the dark, and quickly, before they are stopped.

Jew Law was fixed two centuries AFTER the death of Jesus.

Everyone was responsible. The Romans wouldn't have been able to crucify Jesus if the Jewish priests didn't deliver Him to them in the first place. But beyond that, Jesus wouldn't need to die for us if Adam and Eve had obeyed God. So the whole "blame game" is a waste of time.

Yes, that's right but Romans are the responsiblie for Jesus's death because Pilate gave Relgious leaders his permission to do what they wants with Jesus. Pilate could use his power to say NO to Relgious leaders and the crowd but he doesn't.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

But most people were stuck in their countries, or died trying to escape. An entire nation of people can't just pick up and move out.

I am afraid yes...

 

[Secretblend]

You know what poeple? I think we are getting so defensive that we are forgetting the whole point of Jesus dying.

He died for us. He allowed himself to be killed for us. He gave up his home in Heaven so he can die for us in our place so we all can be saved.

It dont matter who killed him or who was responsible..

WE'VE ALL SINNED THEREFORE, WE ALL KILLED HIM ONE WAY OR ANOTHER FROM BEGINNING OF TIME TO FUTURE TILL END OF TIME!

 

[Reba]

Did I say YOU? Don't make a false accusation.

Just quoting you.

I stand what I said: Relgious leaders were under Roman authorities. IF they don't want to stay under Roman authorities then left Roman authorities to go their own way then... Why can't they then?

How is that relevant? Whether or not they wanted to stay in their own home country has nothing to do with whether or not they are Jews or Romans.

If a black slave living on a plantation in 18th Century America didn't like staying under the control of a white owner could he just go his own way? And if not, and he stayed on the plantation, did that make him white like the owner? Of course not. The black man was living under white man authority but that didn't make him "white".

The Jews were living under Roman authority but that didn't make them "Roman".

You said this, not me.

I quoted your post. Check it out.

Of course everyone know relgious leaders were Jewish and lived under Roman's authorities. If they hate being rule by Roman authorities then leave and follow Jesus everywhere then or go their own way... Why can't they then?

Do you really believe it was that easy? Do you know your history? Do you know how far the Roman Empire stretched? If the Jews aren't welcomed in any countries should they leave the planet?

No, I see different as you...

"British Liebling live under German authorities because she choose to live in Germany".

So does that make you "German Liebling" or "German's Liebling"?

It does the same with US soliders who choose to live in America and serve for America. I consider them as US army because they work for US authorities.

So? When they're stationed in Germany they're still Americans.

The people agree/disagree against each other over historical facts. Their focus on historical facts does never stop. Oh yes, they do blame each other... Example: When I was in Cyprus and they talked bad thing about Turkey and then I was in Turkey and they talked bad thing about Cyprus. Its about blame each other...

We're not talking about feelings between Cyprus and Turkey.

Jews were Jewish, and there's no reason to be offended about that. The high priests, pharisees, scribes, and elders were Jews. The governors and soldiers were Romans. That is not blaming.

 

[Reba]

You know what poeple? I think we are getting so defensive that we are forgetting the whole point of Jesus dying.

He died for us. He allowed himself to be killed for us. He gave up his home in Heaven so he can die for us in our place so we all can be saved.

It dont matter who killed him or who was responsible..

WE'VE ALL SINNED THEREFORE, WE ALL KILLED HIM ONE WAY OR ANOTHER FROM BEGINNING OF TIME TO FUTURE TILL END OF TIME!

So right.

 

[Cheri]

You know what poeple? I think we are getting so defensive that we are forgetting the whole point of Jesus dying.

He died for us. He allowed himself to be killed for us. He gave up his home in Heaven so he can die for us in our place so we all can be saved.

It dont matter who killed him or who was responsible..

WE'VE ALL SINNED THEREFORE, WE ALL KILLED HIM ONE WAY OR ANOTHER FROM BEGINNING OF TIME TO FUTURE TILL END OF TIME!

So true.

 

[christlovedeaf]

You don't even understand me. Let me explain this one more time in a different way.

Who arrested Jesus? The servants of Jewish Religious Leaders.

Who wanted Jesus crucified? The Jewish Religious Leaders, and the accusers of Jews.

Who said that Jesus broke the temple laws? The Jewish Religious Leaders.

Who convinced the people that Jesus was a blasphemer and that He deserved death? The Jewish Religious Leaders

Who tried to release Jesus after He got whipped by the Roman's servants? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who had the power over life and death? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who found no faults in Jesus? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who was convinced of Jesus’s innocence? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who kept the Jewish Religious leaders happy, and to prevent a dangerous rebellion? Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

Who gave the Jewish Relgious Leaders and the people their wishes to crucified Jesus? The Roman Leader (Pontius Pilate)

I rest my case.

that you got it all clearer and correct. I agree with you. that is exactly what had happened and who and what and why. you go, girl

 

[Angel]

You know what poeple? I think we are getting so defensive that we are forgetting the whole point of Jesus dying.

He died for us. He allowed himself to be killed for us. He gave up his home in Heaven so he can die for us in our place so we all can be saved.

It dont matter who killed him or who was responsible..

WE'VE ALL SINNED THEREFORE, WE ALL KILLED HIM ONE WAY OR ANOTHER FROM BEGINNING OF TIME TO FUTURE TILL END OF TIME!

Amen!

 

[Cheri]

Yes, you are correct that Relgion leaders want Jesus crucifixion in first place but they would not get it without Roman authorities's permission. right?

Right they (Jewish Religion Leaders) have no authority to make that decision under Roman's laws. But, the Jewish Religion Leaders demand the Roman Leader to crucified Jesus, they would not give up until Roman lets them have it their way.

 

[Cheri]

that you got it all clearer and correct. I agree with you. that is exactly what had happened and who and what and why. you go, girl