What about signwriting?

Discussion in 'Sign Language & Deaf Education' started by rockdrummer, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. rockdrummer

    rockdrummer Guest

    I came across this site today on SignWriting. What do you guys think about this concept and do you think it has a pratical use?

    SignWriting: Write Sign Languages

    Thanks
     
  2. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    ASL is already visual. It doesn't need another mode to make it visable. Plus, it doesn't translate to written form as it is spatially oriented.
     
  3. rockdrummer

    rockdrummer Guest

    Did you see the site? The way it's accomplished is spatial. It's not writing in words, It's writing in signs and does so in a 3 column format from top to bottom. Have a look at the link and let me know what you think.
    Here's some examples
    Writing ASL Grammar In SignWriting
    Writing ASL Grammar In SignWriting
    Writing ASL Grammar In SignWriting
    Writing ASL Grammar In SignWriting
    Learn To Read ASL Intro p2
    Learn To Read ASL p3
     
  4. rockdrummer

    rockdrummer Guest

    Source: Writing ASL Grammar In SignWriting
     
  5. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    I went back to the sight, and reviewed it again. I suppose it could be useful in some given situations, especially for the child who has been language deprived, and has not internalized the concept of a symbol representing an actual concept. Like the sign (symbol) for chair represents a chair, and the printed word "chair" is a different symbol, but represents the same thing.

    When my son wa a toddler, I ordered a bunch of story books from Gallaudet that were traditional children's books that had the signs below the printed text. As a result of these books, my son learned that the sign and the printed word were both symbols representing the same concept. It wasn't something that had to be explained in detail, he was able to intuit it from the use of the two langauges together that way. When he was very small, I also used flashcards with a picture and a printed word, and then I would show him the flashcard, and make the sign. I'm sure you remember the story I told of the first time he made the connection of language being a series of symbols.

    If children ar exposed to a rich linguistic environment, they will intuit this connection between symbol and object. Once they understand that a sign is a symbol for something else, they can easily apply the concept to a printed word being a different symbol for the same concept. You see the same concept in hearing children who are read to from the time they are small. Very early on, they get the idea that the printed word onthe page of a book, and the word that they hear are both symbols for the concept represented.

    This is what we are talking about when we speak of the internalization of language. And when deaf children are exposed to an oral only environment, this natural, effortless acquisition is interrupted and they have difficulty making that transition in their understanding of the foundations of language. Kids are really capable of grasping very complicated concepts, provided they are given the environment in which to do so. They understand much more than they are able to articulate. Whether or not they have accomplished this at the proper developmental stage does not bbecome evident until they are older, however, and are unable to apply this incidental learning.

    That is why it is so dangerous to assume that a young child is doing well in an oral situation simply because they are able to speak well, or carry on conversation with the family through speach and lipreading. If they have not been able to make the connections of symbol to concept=language, they will have problems in reading comprehension. Those problems don't become evident until they are in perhaps 4th or 5th grade, or even later. Then we are playing the game of catch up, and it is nearly impossible at this point.

    Children need to be given the tools from the beginning.
     
  6. loml

    loml New Member

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    RD -
    For me it looks to overwhelming, too much going on. PEC is clearer and much more child friendly, although I realise it is not sign. Have you ever looked at any of the Signed Exact English material. I find the sign pictures quite different from the ASL dictionary pics.

    Here is a website:Select a Category
     
  7. rockdrummer

    rockdrummer Guest

    I too was a bit confused and it would take some effort to master but I also believe that once proficient it would become much eaiser. The question is how much time will it take for one to become proficient. The neat thing about it is it's close representation to ASL and it's truly the ability to write sign language. PEC is interesting and my son was using it at his last school with good success.
     
  8. loml

    loml New Member

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    RD -
    How long to become profecient? :dunno: I did not investigate the site to see if there was any information or discussion from users. I am sure there are many variables. Also, depending on what kind of learning you are; just like some people expedite/enhance their learning of Cued Speech via cue script.
     
  9. shel90

    shel90 Audist are not welcome Premium Member

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    I agree with Jillo regarding to the ability to internalize language and making connections with symbols.

    I went to a workshop about signwriting or ASL glossing as it was called about 9 years ago when I was just starting to learn ASL. The speakers were saying how it would help bridge the gap between ASL and English via writing.

    After 5 years of teaching, I don't really think it would really be as effective as I thought. Too much going on and it would confuse the kids even more. Better keep the wrtten form to the spoken language of whatever country the child is in. My school won't adopt this approach..prefer keep writing to the English language so dhh children can master it faster without adding another system just like all those systems of English have been invented. There's no need..the philosophy is use the real languages during instruction and socializing, not invented systems.

    BTW, I don't have access to the links due to having no Internet at home. I am using my pager to posts my posts whenever I can.
     
  10. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    Signing Exact English? Now there' a cumbersome, overwhelming, invented system.:giggle:
     
  11. jillio

    jillio New Member

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  12. loml

    loml New Member

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    Cued Speech enables you to internalize the language like an inner sound system.
     
  13. rockdrummer

    rockdrummer Guest

    What about situations where people need to write and would prefer to write in ASL? Also even though written english makes it visual I cant imagine it would always be practicle to write. I have heard many deafies say they would rather sign than write. Example; 2 deafies that don't know ASL but know SEE. Do you think they would rather sign to eachother or write in order to communicate with each other?
     
  14. Tousi

    Tousi Well-Known Member

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    Most ASL'ers, including myself can and do accommodate SEE when they see it.
     
  15. rockdrummer

    rockdrummer Guest

    Thanks Tousi. What about if you only knew SEE and you were in a room with another deafie that only knows SEE. You both also are proficient in written english but neither knows ASL. Would you prefer to communicate in by signing in SEE or would you rather write notes back and forth in english?
     
  16. shel90

    shel90 Audist are not welcome Premium Member

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    Wow..that's a very good question. I asked myself that and I don't have the answer.

    More likely to sign in SEE...
     
  17. ASLGAL

    ASLGAL New Member

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    Here is a kicker (and a little off topic)

    When my assignment included school resource officer I was told by an MH teacher to buy a Signing Exact English book for reference.
    When I entered ASL I was told - Do not use that book!
    You will remember my DH - ran256 HOH - is in ITP and looking forward to a retirement career in same. Well - although he will find out what all he can test out of - he is starting Tranliteration tonight and guess what was on the book
    list? thats right - Signing Exact English - wow!

    The signwriting site is interesting, I'll have to spend some time exploring there.
     
  18. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    And, how exactly, does it accomplish that?
     
  19. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    If we are talking about literacy, then written English is the standard for literacy. I know of no deafies who use SEE on a conversational basis. Even those who have come tosigning late, and are weak on ASL grammar and syntax,will use a more PSE system of signing. SEE is simply too cumbersome for conversational purposes.

    And sign writing doesn't use SEE (English) syntax. It uses ASL syntax.
     
  20. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    Agreed. I have watched many instances of code switching. But, in a conversational arena, would you agree that it becomes PSE more often?
     

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